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Thread: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    @TitoFan trolls again with a complete dangling lugworm of an opening post, dressed up inexpertly as open minded enquiry and Lyle jumps in with a lazy and blinkered critique of British Boxing fan's and the supposed problems with the domestic scene here in the UK.

    This is after @Althugz has already swung on TitoFans nuts despite being completely rational and a big fan of characters and entertainers like Naz who he was a fan of despite not knowing that he won and defended his international titles for 7 years and 20+ fights before he met Barrera. Apparently @El Kabong figured the problem comes down to Calzaghe, Haye and Chisora all having a bit to much Nas in their style.

    Three very different fighting styles, but apparently to much like Naz whose own style was different again. It is the entertainment business and the four just mentioned all provided that in bucket loads. The idea that "It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England....those guys are a lot more likeable than Naz who although entertaining was a Chav and everybody hates those bastards." is an anathema to any sense of rational discussion. It just proves that you already have a set idea of what defines British boxing and won't let reality shake that ingrained prejudice.

    Calzaghe and Cleverly are not English, and yes it does matter because it shows how narrow your understanding of the British fight game is. @BIG H and @Fenster both nailed it by pointing out your owns posts glaring contradictory nature.

    Who cares so much about fights that never happened, that they randomly become the soul topic of a thread and then are used solely to discredit a fighter and call him a coward?
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Trolling? Well, I never.....

    It's nothing but a well presented documentary on Hamed, and his documented reluctancy to face Juan Manuel Marquez. Nothing "trollling" about that. Think about it... the guy loses for the very first time against MAB, and does so in humiliating, denigrating fashion... in front of thousands of dismayed fans. He goes into hiding, fights once more in the relative safety of the UK against a less than stellar opponent... and retires without so much of a hint of coming back. (Well, when he got fat he talked about coming back, in between bites of a doughnut).

    Does that sound like someone who then wants to up and face JMM? What for? To get a second helping of "whup-ass"? Frankly, I don't blame the Prince.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

    If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

    Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

    This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.
    Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense

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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Actually Naz signed a three-fight deal with HBO after the Barrera loss with a rematch being part of the deal.

    He definitely hinted at coming back.

    He probably wouldn't have given Marquez another chance though. You can't mess everyone around and turndown career paydays then expect a second chance. Lets be honest.
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    To be honest @Greenbeanz I didn't call Calzaghe or Cleverly English, I used the term British....is Wales all of a sudden not in that little category?

    The idea I mean to convey is that the more theatrical/drama queen boxers like Naz are not my favorite and in my view England (& Wales apparently) have produced many of these fighters who are all hat and no cattle. Certainly Calzaghe & Naz were World Class, but to me their theatrics take away from their actual skill. Call me old school, but I like a fighter to be confident, but not over the top cocky, I never have liked those kinds of fighters. When it gets to the point of David Haye where the build up to the fight is more hyped up and talked about than the fight, then you're hurting the sport, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. You fellas seem more than willing to shell out money to watch a retired boxer fight a banned boxer for some trinket title, I have to tell you as a boxing fan I'm more interested in Price & Fury and what they can do. They've not run their mouths, they've not made t-shirts, they've just fought and I respect that more than the attention whores.
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy warrior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

    If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

    Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

    This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.
    Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense
    I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.

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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy warrior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

    If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

    Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

    This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.
    Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense
    I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.
    The third post in this thread substantiated it.
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy warrior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

    If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

    Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

    This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.
    Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense
    I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.
    The third post in this thread substantiated it.
    That vid wont play but I vaguely remember it and just because HBO makes a claim does not make it so. Over all these years I have never seen Marquez ever even asked about it and yet it still persists. However the reverse is also the case with many that still believe Hamed ducked him. I fear the truth may lay somewhere in the middle.

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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    All a bit odd.

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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing....he's all flash and when he got his shit handed to him what did he do? Did he try to prove himself? Did he try to get better? Nope he took his ball and went home like a little punk.....a certain heavyweight has copied this career strategy but another classless dope baited him into fighting again.

    The reason many people were put off by Calzaghe? He had a bit too much Naz in his style.

    I don't mean to disrespect Calzaghe and I'm not denying Naz's talent I just think that when you let your talent do the talking you get more respect. It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England....those guys are a lot more likeable than Naz who although entertaining was a Chav and everybody hates those bastards.
    You've just slightly contradicted yourself here.

    Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing.. then you list a load of Brits that are nothing like him.

    Have another try?
    I listed fighters who weren't like Naz to show they are doing well without acting like tools....unlike say David Haye and DerriCk (with a fucking C) Chisora.....who spells Derrick with a C? No wonder that kid acts like a dope
    Im getting bored of seeing whiney little bitches going on about spelling.

    You have even managed to spell his name wrong still! Its Dereck! Also, he is english and I couldnt care less how its supposed to be spealt but his mother gave him an english name. Is it supposed to be spealt like that in England? You talk English (that english people invented) in america and spell it all fucking wrong. Like metre and litre, you spell it like a child would, phonetically (meter, liter). Its wrong. Im sure some mobiles are american because the predictive text gives the same spastic spellings

    Also, you have to drag every topic round to something Klitschko related, what is that all about? Can you not just find a Klitschko fan site or are you a Klitschko disciple sent here to convert everyone?

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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy warrior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

    If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

    Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

    This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.
    Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense
    I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.
    The third post in this thread substantiated it.
    That vid wont play but I vaguely remember it and just because HBO makes a claim does not make it so. Over all these years I have never seen Marquez ever even asked about it and yet it still persists. However the reverse is also the case with many that still believe Hamed ducked him. I fear the truth may lay somewhere in the middle.
    HBO were requesting these matches from Naz so they have no need to lie. They make it clear that Barrera, Morales, MARQUEZ and Tapia were all offered MORE money than they'd ever made in their life to fight Naz on that date (it's the Augie Sanchez fight). They specifically target Marquez's baffling decision to turn it down as he spent ages claiming Naz ducked him.

    Here's some more proof with quotes from Marquez.

    Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed

    LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...

    Marquez fought Daniel Jimenez for $5000 a week after this date.
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post



    I always wondered why this fight never happened.
    Well..... I guess I got my answer.
    Too bad.... would've been good for boxing.


    Just thought I'd paste the original post, since we seem to drift off the truth and into outrageous speculation as a thread moves along.


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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post



    I always wondered why this fight never happened.
    Well..... I guess I got my answer.
    Too bad.... would've been good for boxing.


    Just thought I'd paste the original post, since we seem to drift off the truth and into outrageous speculation as a thread moves along.

    Here is definitive proof straight from the paymasters mouth.



    Fact.
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    Default Re: An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post



    I always wondered why this fight never happened.
    Well..... I guess I got my answer.
    Too bad.... would've been good for boxing.


    Just thought I'd paste the original post, since we seem to drift off the truth and into outrageous speculation as a thread moves along.

    Here is definitive proof straight from the paymasters mouth.



    Fact.

    Here's a nice little article about why Hamed retired.


    Naseem Hamed: Why did the ‘Prince’ Retire?


    By the way, I'm on your side. I'm trying to argue Hamed's case. If you'll notice, this article was written by someone sympathetic to the Prince. And he proceeds to make a good case. The question being: "Why did Hamed retire when he did?" He had just been throroughly beaten, exposed, and humiliated by Barrera... then had one fight a year later, and inexplicably retired. The rationale being that Hamed did not want to risk further humiliation after being exposed. But in summary, some of Potter's points:

    1. Hamed's troubles and split from both Frank Warren and his longtime trainer and mentor, Brendan Ingle.

    2. The whole 9/11 thing. You know... with Hamed being a Muslim and all. Another psychological log on the emotional fireplace.

    3. HBO and Adidas lost their faith in Hamed. Oh my God... how much can a man bear?

    4. Finally... the kicker. Hamed had already earned SO MUCH money. Why would he need more? I mean... so what if you've just gotten exposed and embarrassed in front of millions of people. You've already made enough money to get fat on. What's the point on continuing?


    Such an ironclad case. I'm telling you... this Potter character certainly changed MY mind about Prince Naseem, I'll tell you that. The nerve of anyone who would insinuate that the Prince would avoid someone like Juan Manuel Marquez.

    I think one of your own countrymen said it best in another thread: I mean, it's not like Hamed was completely humiliated by the ONLY elite Mexican fighter he's ever met. What could Hamed possible expect out of a fight against JMM? If you ask me, I think he got out just in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing....he's all flash and when he got his shit handed to him what did he do? Did he try to prove himself? Did he try to get better? Nope he took his ball and went home like a little punk.....a certain heavyweight has copied this career strategy but another classless dope baited him into fighting again.

    The reason many people were put off by Calzaghe? He had a bit too much Naz in his style.

    I don't mean to disrespect Calzaghe and I'm not denying Naz's talent I just think that when you let your talent do the talking you get more respect. It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England....those guys are a lot more likeable than Naz who although entertaining was a Chav and everybody hates those bastards.
    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Spot on

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