Muhammad Ali to Lead the parade at Olympic openings

[Beanz]

Speaking as the neighbour of a man devastated by Parkinsons disease, I find it unthinkable that a decent human being could feel anything but empathy for someone whose body and mind has betrayed them in such a complete way. When my neighbour Tony pushed his alarm button and his wife was at work I would get a phone call informing me he had pushed it. I would have to go in with a key and see if he had fallen and many times lift him off the floor or the toilet because he simply could not do it himself. What was even more apparent was his difficulty in communicating any wishes after Parkinson's had left him locked in a shell.

That does not mean Ali should be worshipped or his life made out to be something that it wasn't. He had great wit and had the bravery to stand by his convictions but like any man was also beset by flaws. After Muhammed refused to fight in the Vietnam war, Joe Frazier whilst holding different political views than Ali, petitioned the president himself to allow Ali to have his fight license re-instated. Joe refused to fight in the elimination tournament to replace Ali. What did Ali the supposed greatest sportsman of all time do to show his gratitude?

Accused Joe of being a white champion with Black skin, an Uncle Tom and then of being ignorant and a Gorilla. Years later Ali, infact 11 years ago Ali finally apologized to the New York Times and Joe's response was

"He didn't apologize to me -- he apologized to the paper I'm still waiting for him to say it to me."

So what was Ali's witty retort this time

"If you see Frazier, you tell him he's still a gorilla."

He also denigrated Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson, and Thurgood Marshall, he said a lot of stupid things calling for the lynching of interracial couples, bemoaning the lack of an American apartheid, and saying

"No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters."

Does that sound like a role model to you? What a guy? We all say stupid stuff, particularly when we are young but Ali made a habit of it, even admitted that he would say it just to sell tickets, because that's how little respect for the paying public he had.

You can be outrageous without being spiteful. The nation of Islam of which he was part ( not to be confused with Islam) preached hatred and racism none of the attributes that Ali is credited for. He praised dictators and is seen by many as deserting Malcolm X before his assassination.Unity and peace, you must be joking.

All of the positive messages eschewed by the foundation set up in his name have happened after he could no longer express himself and the image of him as an ambassador for peace is a media construct.

For many it will seem like Blasphemy but the facts are all out there and easy to find, even exhaustively researched pro Ali books like Thomas Hauser's biography can not be read with an open mind without seeing a huge gulf between peoples idea of Ali and the real man. He was a great entertainer and remains a polarizing character who history will not forget, but that does not mean he was a greater man than many other boxers or entertainers. I will not patronize him by thinking he is great because he struggles on despite his disability, that is not what disabled people want. There is no arguing for me that will prove he was not a great. I can not even argue that his trilogy of fights with Smokin Joe Frazier, culminating in the brutal hot hell of Manilla, do not represent the greatest televised fight series ever screened, but as a man and boxer, for me,he is certainly not the greatest.

[Master]

I would cry seeing Ali in the state he is in but he has had a great life. Forget you all that hate him. The man is a legend.

[imp]

You make good points greenbeanz but times and situations were pretty messed up back then and this is far from a perfect world.

[Althugz]

@Althugz and @TitoFan you are both going way off subject here and are sounding pretty desperate with your silly troll accusations. Again you bring up Calzaghe and project a fanboy persona onto me that most other posters are well aware exists only in your two tiny minds. If you can't be men and discuss the subject in hand like a grown up then maybe you should both take a deep breath and STFU.

That's unfair Beanz, I have never once called you a JC fanboy. Although you were my very own, personal fanboy who followed me around like a lost little girl until I stopped giving you the attention you so rarely deserved.
I'm slightly jealous Tito has peaked your interest now would it help if I sent you a signed pair of my "micro-shorts" that you love so much?

[Althugz]

I would cry seeing Ali in the state he is in but he has had a great life. Forget you all that hate him. The man is a legend.

Agreed

[Althugz]

You make good points greenbeanz but times and situations were pretty messed up back then and this is far from a perfect world.

Most people assess the Ali of old as though he lived in 2012. That is a problem. It's easy to make a judgement about him in this day and age without understanding fully what it was like as a black man to live in that era. Imp made some excellent points..so did...gulp..Greenbeanz.

[Andre]

The N word is a rife on the vast majority of mainstream music CD's eminating from the united states!

My parents were not given any opportunities, they worked hard and forced open doors that were slamed in there faces! They now run there own successful business yet both grew up on council estates! Try being working class in england and then tell me you dont have to struggle to really make it!

Lets not pretend that ali was some unjustly treated slave, he was raised happily and healthily in a quaint town and nurtured by numerous white men like i.e angelo dundee and the community police officer that introduced him to boxing was black! Hardly an ill treated child lacking black role models was he?

I don't mean to be mean spirited but i don't buy the mass media hyperbole that surrounds ali, he's far from the greatest sportsman ever, he's not even the greatest sportsman in his sport or his division! Most ppl, don't even know who boxers charley burley, teofilio stevenson, laszlo papp or harry greb even are! Most 'famous' sportsman ever yes but certainly not the greatest in the sense that i measure them by. I wish him well though and he is a legend no doubt.

Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

You asked

John Michael Landy

Landy is remembered for his performance in the 1500 metres final at the 1956 Australian National Championships prior to the Melbourne Olympic Games. In the race, Landy stopped and doubled back to check on fellow runner Ron Clarke after another runner clipped Clarke's heel, causing him to fall early in the third lap of the race. Clarke, the then-junior 1500 metre world champion, who had been leading the race, got back to his feet and started running again; Landy followed. Incredibly, in the final two laps Landy made up a large deficit to win the race, something considered one of the greatest moments in Australian sporting history. Said the National Centre for History and Education in Australia, "It was a spontaneous gesture of sportsmanship and it has never been forgotten.

Landy is your choice and thats your opinion. Not mine and many others.
Its the combination of things that makes ali great. I dont believe in allah or the muslim faith but that helped him to stand up for a certain race where others before him couldnt or were too scared too.

I like to reverse the tables on every issue i look at, if black people refused to let white people compete in boxing for whatever reason and then suddenly you have a man called jack johnson that is finally allowed in and dominates all blacks with ease
But then the blacks invent laws to ruin his life and career just because his white.
Then steps in a subservant white man named joe louis and to some degree ray robinson who cant really be themselves as history does not want another jack johnson.
Finally a young white heavyweight called clay stands up for what is right and wont conform to anyones rule as he a human being first and a colour second.
Everything comes into play with ali not just being a great heavyweight.

True Sportsmanship is what I was relaying John Landy to more than achievements.

As the story said, its an amazing achievemnt in the face of returning and going backwards to recover his opponent. Simply was the most amazing feat to then go on and win.

Its good to reverse things like you have, it gives you the best perspective of things.
Same as many whites back then feeling so vilified in saying they dont want to share space with blacks and being against intermarriage. Ali was simply turning the tide on them and using his fame to do it publicly. 'Touche'. That side of white scum needed a slap around into reality at the time. KKKlansmen were the ones who started 'the drive by hit' back then,the useless hood wearing pricks, no wonder there was an underlying anger in young black males growing up.

[Andre]

Watch this fellas this a great interview.Listen to Ali when asked if he was the greatest, he is humble and honest. (something he couldnt be in the face of fighting for his life).




I think all these guys are big spirited men whatever they have or havent done in the past; It just wouldnt of been the same without any of them.

[Andre]

Pretty sharp for a lighter of the heavys to get away with all he did.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

Its not ali thats for sure, a dude that has to cheat to hose LHW henry cooper out of a KO win should not be rewarded with the monika of greatest sportsmen ever! He also turned into a flabby mess once he hit 30.

PPl like u rate him because alot of people refer to his Civil Rights stuff ... OK, that's very admirable he did that, cool. Ali was dictated too constantly his little ditties he gave reporters were contrived and pre though out, he had a very low IQ something like 76! He was a puppet for AN ABSOLUTE LOON called elijah mohammed and used as a plaything by the black power movement.

Also, he had alot of fights that could have gone either way on the cards. He lost 5 times, but could have (by my count of close scores) lost 9. If he was 52-9 instead of 56-5 he would not be "The Greatest". Marciano was unbeaten, Louis had 25 defenses in 11 years, Ali would be know as "the guy who won the title 3 times". Not "The Greatest"

Alot of that was in the judges hands. Greatest sport ppl ever? There are many who did much more (in sporting terms) than ali...

Lionel messi (will go onto become the greatest ever soccer player no question)

Nadia comaneci (gymnastics) produced one of the greatest individual performances in the history of modern sports.

Don Bradman - Cricket Batting average of 99.94 is far and away the highest any player in the 135 years of Test cricket

Martina Navratilova (tennis) Navratilova won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 Grand Slam doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles.

Pele (football) This Brazilian legend is the all-time leading scorer of the Brazil national football team.

Valentino Rossi (MotoGP) This Italian is the Michael Schumacher of motorcycling. Rossihas won 8 Grand Prix World Championships.

Gareth Edwards (rugby) Wales’ youngest ever captain also scored what is referred to as “that try”, thought of as the greatest ever, for the Barbarians against the All Blacks in 1973..

Shall i go on?

Bruce lee (martia arts)
Jesse owns (track & field)
Maradone (fotball)
Ty cobb (baseball)
Jack Nicklaus (golf)
Tiger wods (golf)
Roger Federer (tennis)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Steve Redgrave (rowing)
Shane warne (cricket)
Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey)
Michael Schumacher (motor racing)
Joe Montana (American football)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Rob kaman (kickboxing)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track and field)
Dan gable (wrestling)
Usain Bolt (athletics)
Babe Ruth (baseball)

Ali is a long way off being the best heavyweight ever! He lost to norton at least twice! Could quite easily have lost 2 to CW joe frazier (who only had one eye) should by rights be 1-1 with average henry cooper, lost to a 6-0 novice etc etc...

[ElTerribleMorales]

Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

Its not ali thats for sure, a dude that has to cheat to hose LHW henry cooper out of a KO win should not be rewarded with the monika of greatest sportsmen ever! He also turned into a flabby mess once he hit 30.

PPl like u rate him because alot of people refer to his Civil Rights stuff ... OK, that's very admirable he did that, cool. Ali was dictated too constantly his little ditties he gave reporters were contrived and pre though out, he had a very low IQ something like 76! He was a puppet for AN ABSOLUTE LOON called elijah mohammed and used as a plaything by the black power movement.

Also, he had alot of fights that could have gone either way on the cards. He lost 5 times, but could have (by my count of close scores) lost 9. If he was 52-9 instead of 56-5 he would not be "The Greatest". Marciano was unbeaten, Louis had 25 defenses in 11 years, Ali would be know as "the guy who won the title 3 times". Not "The Greatest"

Alot of that was in the judges hands. Greatest sport ppl ever? There are many who did much more (in sporting terms) than ali...

Lionel messi (will go onto become the greatest ever soccer player no question)

Nadia comaneci (gymnastics) produced one of the greatest individual performances in the history of modern sports.

Don Bradman - Cricket Batting average of 99.94 is far and away the highest any player in the 135 years of Test cricket

Martina Navratilova (tennis) Navratilova won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 Grand Slam doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles.

Pele (football) This Brazilian legend is the all-time leading scorer of the Brazil national football team.

Valentino Rossi (MotoGP) This Italian is the Michael Schumacher of motorcycling. Rossihas won 8 Grand Prix World Championships.

Gareth Edwards (rugby) Wales’ youngest ever captain also scored what is referred to as “that try”, thought of as the greatest ever, for the Barbarians against the All Blacks in 1973..

Shall i go on?

Bruce lee (martia arts)
Jesse owns (track & field)
Maradone (fotball)
Ty cobb (baseball)
Jack Nicklaus (golf)
Tiger wods (golf)
Roger Federer (tennis)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Steve Redgrave (rowing)
Shane warne (cricket)
Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey)
Michael Schumacher (motor racing)
Joe Montana (American football)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Rob kaman (kickboxing)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track and field)
Dan gable (wrestling)
Usain Bolt (athletics)
Babe Ruth (baseball)

Ali is a long way off being the best heavyweight ever! He lost to norton at least twice! Could quite easily have lost 2 to CW joe frazier (who only had one eye) should by rights be 1-1 with average henry cooper, lost to a 6-0 novice etc etc...

yea he lost to Frazier, since when is that a bad thing? seeing how only 2 men beat him (Foreman and Ali himself), Muhammad won the clearest decision in the 2nd fight even though it's the least memorable fight of the trilogy, he lost to Norton with his jaw hanging on by a thread and again, Norton wasn't necessarily a bum, he beat Cooper soundly apart from a flash knockdown in the first fight in which Ali bloodied and battered and stopped Sir Henry in the very next round, he beat him up even clearer in the rematch, he lost to a young Olympic Gold Medalist while being in the 18th year and 57th pro fight of his career, already privately showing signs of Parkinson's Disease, so what?

His wins over the likes of Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Tirell, Ellis, Mathis, Foster, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks all pretty much much make up for it

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

His wins over the likes of Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Tirell, Ellis, Mathis, Foster, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks all pretty much much make up for it[/QUOTE]

-Patterson was approaching 40 and weighed 188½lbs

-Liston was probably 40 and a heroine addict (was mob ruled and probably threw the 2nd fight, first was close liston quit on stool)

-Chuvalo was nearly 40 by the 2nd fight and was basicaly a journeyman having 18 losses.

-Quarry was a 190lb CW and a never was.

-Bonavena lol

-Frazier 5'10" 205lb crude slugger that would be unable to fight nowadays due to being blind in one eye.

-Terrell, i read recently that terrell was an example of how ali would handle the klitschkos Ernie Terrell was 6'6" and a good boxer but thats were the comparisons end...

Ernie Terrell IS ONE OF THE WEAKEST MOST FEATHERFISTED GUYS ever witnessed in the whole history of real heavyweight boxing.

He scored only 2 KOs (in his entire career) in real heavyweight fights.

1 KO against Garcia (who started at 150+ lbs).
and 1 KO against a 33-16 bum (Bill Drover).

Ernie Terrell is NOTHING compared to the Klitschkos.

Terrell's real heavyweight record (200x2) is 9-5.

Additionally Terrell claims that Ali thumbed him ("Clay as Clay can") so that his eye got jammed and was fixed in one direction since the early rounds.

Terrell's medium weight is 197 lbs. He was a CRUISER. Compare Terrell with modern cruisers not with real heavyweights 50 pounds heavier.

-Foster was a LHW in his mid 30's (WEIGHED 180LBS FOR THE FIGHT)

-Elliss was 185LBS for the ali fight, good win but nothing special considering he lost 12 fights.

-Mathis was a fat blob at nearly 260lbs

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Buster mathis:







-Spinks was 6-0 when he beat ali lol and went onto lose 17 of his fights.

-Foreman was too thick to guage ring tactics and gassed after using ali as a punching bag.

-Shavers was a 200lb journeyman that was kayoed in 1 round by LHW gerry quarry, shavers was never a champ.

Here's 185 LB HENRY COOPER:

[Althugz]

Tell us who the greatest sportsman is then?

Its not ali thats for sure, a dude that has to cheat to hose LHW henry cooper out of a KO win should not be rewarded with the monika of greatest sportsmen ever! He also turned into a flabby mess once he hit 30.

PPl like u rate him because alot of people refer to his Civil Rights stuff ... OK, that's very admirable he did that, cool. Ali was dictated too constantly his little ditties he gave reporters were contrived and pre though out, he had a very low IQ something like 76! He was a puppet for AN ABSOLUTE LOON called elijah mohammed and used as a plaything by the black power movement.

Also, he had alot of fights that could have gone either way on the cards. He lost 5 times, but could have (by my count of close scores) lost 9. If he was 52-9 instead of 56-5 he would not be "The Greatest". Marciano was unbeaten, Louis had 25 defenses in 11 years, Ali would be know as "the guy who won the title 3 times". Not "The Greatest"

Alot of that was in the judges hands. Greatest sport ppl ever? There are many who did much more (in sporting terms) than ali...

Lionel messi (will go onto become the greatest ever soccer player no question)

Nadia comaneci (gymnastics) produced one of the greatest individual performances in the history of modern sports.

Don Bradman - Cricket Batting average of 99.94 is far and away the highest any player in the 135 years of Test cricket

Martina Navratilova (tennis) Navratilova won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 Grand Slam doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles.

Pele (football) This Brazilian legend is the all-time leading scorer of the Brazil national football team.

Valentino Rossi (MotoGP) This Italian is the Michael Schumacher of motorcycling. Rossihas won 8 Grand Prix World Championships.

Gareth Edwards (rugby) Wales’ youngest ever captain also scored what is referred to as “that try”, thought of as the greatest ever, for the Barbarians against the All Blacks in 1973..

Shall i go on?

Bruce lee (martia arts)
Jesse owns (track & field)
Maradone (fotball)
Ty cobb (baseball)
Jack Nicklaus (golf)
Tiger wods (golf)
Roger Federer (tennis)
Michael Jordan (basketball)
Steve Redgrave (rowing)
Shane warne (cricket)
Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey)
Michael Schumacher (motor racing)
Joe Montana (American football)
Michael Phelps (swimming)
Rob kaman (kickboxing)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track and field)
Dan gable (wrestling)
Usain Bolt (athletics)
Babe Ruth (baseball)

Ali is a long way off being the best heavyweight ever! He lost to norton at least twice! Could quite easily have lost 2 to CW joe frazier (who only had one eye) should by rights be 1-1 with average henry cooper, lost to a 6-0 novice etc etc...

Oh shaaadaaaap..fuckin hell!

Who gives a shit what his IQ was?? Makes him even more impressive I'd say.

You're stuck on this "greatest ever boxer" tag. Nobody has ever said that. Please feel free to tell me how any of those sports stars you mention above elicited more emotion or reaction in the public than Muhammad Ali?

Even my mum knows who Ali is and she's from a remote little village in Cyprus who hasn't a clue about any sports whatsoever. I guarantee she wouldn't know who anybody on your list is. Not one. Shit, I don't even know who some of those people on your list are!

That's why he was "the greatest" - None of those stars had the effect on the world that Ali had.

[ElTerribleMorales]

again another list of hollow weak fake excuses to try and discredit the man that picked up a Gold Medal at the Olympics, became the first 3 time HW champion in history, and whom will always be remembered by everyone even by people who never have seen a single fight, you know the man is a legend when the likes of Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Wlad and Vitali Klitschko, Foreman, and Holmes will never even be considered to be anywhere close to as great as Ali was, he fought when the HW division was stacked and the center of the public eye, he always managed to comeback despite what was going on outside the ring, something few other fighters can say