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Thread: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

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  1. #16
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    How viable an opponent would Liston have been in 1957-1958? I don't know for sure off the top of my head but I didn't think his oppostion was good enough during that period to warrant a fight with Marciano. Or was it?

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    excellent poınt

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    There was a surprising amount of good looking uppercuts in that video.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    In his prime of course you would have to favor Rocky to whup them all, but at his age at the time it makes the fights a little harder to judge. I think he would stop Patterson & Johanssen. Floyd was quick and powerful, but never durable and the style he used (D'Amato's famous peek-a-boo) was ill equipped to handle a stronger fighter that would bore his way through the defense and back him up (look at how he fared vs Liston twice). Johanssen was a lesser Marciano, he had a good right hand and was a solid fighter and all but he was suseptible to the left hook and if Rocky caught you numerous times with that you were done for. Now Liston was bigger and stronger than Rocky and it would be very difficult for an older Rocky to handle the physicality of Sonny, but remember Sonny's attitude and psyche, he was a bully and when guys stood up to him (and Rocky would do just that) his confidence would start to crumble....I don't know if Rocky could stop Liston or if Sonny would start looking for a way out but it's one of the more interesting fights to think about.

    A hypothetical bout between Louis and Liston is also something I think would have been a monumental scrap (Prime vs Prime)


    Interesting thread and some very good posts, but I have to question this statement. What on Liston's record leads you to believe this? Other than a loss early in his career... and his two losses to Ali... Liston won every one of his fights, save for his second to last fight, when he lost by KO to Leotis Martin in 1969. Liston was almost 40 by then.

    Liston lost to Ali because he had no answer to Ali's boxing prowess and speed. And of course, there are those who think he took a dive in their famous second fight... the one with the "phantom punch". Many think the mob was involved in that one.

    Regardless, Marciano had neither Ali's boxing skills nor speed. It would have been a war while it lasted. And while I'm not saying it's 100% sure that Liston would've won (Marciano would always have the puncher's chance).... there's a high probability that the combination of Liston's size, power, and Marciano's age would've done in the great Rocky. Prime against prime.... it may have been a different story.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    There was no "Phantom Punch"



    Right cross on the jaw and down goes Liston


    Liston was a bully and bullies don't like the tables turned its just a fact of life
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post

    ....but remember Sonny's attitude and psyche, he was a bully and when guys stood up to him (and Rocky would do just that) his confidence would start to crumble.....

    Interesting thread and some very good posts, but I have to question this statement. What on Liston's record leads you to believe this? Other than a loss early in his career... and his two losses to Ali... Liston won every one of his fights, save for his second to last fight, when he lost by KO to Leotis Martin in 1969. Liston was almost 40 by then.

    Liston lost to Ali because he had no answer to Ali's boxing prowess and speed. And of course, there are those who think he took a dive in their famous second fight... the one with the "phantom punch". Many think the mob was involved in that one.

    Regardless, Marciano had neither Ali's boxing skills nor speed. It would have been a war while it lasted. And while I'm not saying it's 100% sure that Liston would've won (Marciano would always have the puncher's chance).... there's a high probability that the combination of Liston's size, power, and Marciano's age would've done in the great Rocky. Prime against prime.... it may have been a different story.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    There was no "Phantom Punch"



    Right cross on the jaw and down goes Liston


    Liston was a bully and bullies don't like the tables turned its just a fact of life


    Forget the "phantom punch". What in Liston's record or past behavior leads you to believe that "....he was a bully and when guys stood up to him (and Rocky would do just that) his confidence would start to crumble...."? And don't give me the standard bully definition..... it wouldn't stand up in court. I would prefer some facts on this one.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    well hıs demeanor ın the fırst fıght wıth Clay that he threw out hıs sh9oulder seemed lıke a bıt of a quıtter sınce Clay stood up to hımn so well

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Ali was a totally different fighter than Rocky. Ali baffled and frustrated Liston with his speed and movement. Rocky had no such weapons. It would be a slugfest. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what in Liston's record suggests he would've backed off from a fellow slugger.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    I think it is agreed then that Rocky probably made the right decision and retired at the time he did because if he fought a Liston then he probably would have been beaten and maybe even stopped.

    So Brock you can stop being angry with Rocky.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I think it is agreed then that Rocky probably made the right decision and retired at the time he did because if he fought a Liston then he probably would have been beaten and maybe even stopped.

    So Brock you can stop being angry with Rocky.


    Yes..... because @El Kabong (alias Lyle) was not able to prove that Liston's "confidence would start to crumble" if Rocky were to "stand up to him."


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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Yes..... because @El Kabong (alias Lyle) was not able to prove that Liston's "confidence would start to crumble" if Rocky were to "stand up to him."

    If you cheat to try and win and then after that fails you become "injured" then I'd say it's apparent that he looked for a way out when he was getting better than he was giving
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Yes..... because @El Kabong (alias Lyle) was not able to prove that Liston's "confidence would start to crumble" if Rocky were to "stand up to him."

    If you cheat to try and win and then after that fails you become "injured" then I'd say it's apparent that he looked for a way out when he was getting better than he was giving
    ı thought of that cheatıng thıng too. he trıed the cheap way out---lıke walcott ın the 1st fıght--and when ıt dıdnt work, he became convınced he couldnt wın and lost that fıght and the rematch ın 2 mınutes! same thıng happened to lıston ın the rematch. ı thınk ı agree wıth Lyle here---Lıston dıdnt necessarıly ever show he was a coward but ı do belıeve ıf he tasted Rocky's body shots he would fold mentaly.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Yes..... because @El Kabong (alias Lyle) was not able to prove that Liston's "confidence would start to crumble" if Rocky were to "stand up to him."

    If you cheat to try and win and then after that fails you become "injured" then I'd say it's apparent that he looked for a way out when he was getting better than he was giving




    Again, Lyle. Using Ali's fights to say Liston would "crumble" if Rocky Marciano was up in his face, is using twisted, warped logic. That may somehow work in the Obama-Romney debates.... but it doesn't hold water here. You said, and I quote: ....but remember Sonny's attitude and psyche, he was a bully and when guys stood up to him (and Rocky would do just that) his confidence would start to crumble.....

    I asked you to provide one shred of evidence from Liston's past record to suggest this has ever happened, and would happen in a theoretical fight against Marciano. You replied: Liston was a bully and bullies don't like the tables turned its just a fact of life

    Which doesn't really address my question at all. And now you're using the Ali-Liston fights to somehow prove your point. It's not that I'm the world's biggest Liston fan... but I think we need to be responsible with our suppositions and our "facts." The fact is.... Liston was never in that type of situation as you describe.

    Ali, again, was a totally different fighter than was Rocky. Ali frustrated Liston because Liston couldn't deal with Ali's speed and elusiveness. Liston would've loved for Ali to stay still and bang with him, which is what Marciano would've done. Whole 'nother ballgame here. Also Lyle, whether Liston was a bully or not, fact is there were never any "guys" (plural) who stood up to him. It was just Ali.... and finally Leotis Martin knocking him out when Liston was already an old man.

    We all make mistakes. We just need to own up to them.


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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    You trying to tell me Ali wasn't a bully?
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: İ am angry at Rocky Marciano

    Interesting post, there were many reasons behind Rocky retiring, his ire at his manager, his family, and his back, sure he could have fought on but there really wasn't the competition around, at least that is how he saw it, by the way there is a new biography out on Marciano entitled Redemption: The Life & Death of Rocky Marciano (Volume One) which follows him along his path up to and including his bout with Carmine Vingo in December 1949. Anyone interested can find it here: Amazon.com: redemption the life and death of rocky marciano or on their local Amazon site...

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