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Thread: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    HOW was he "ducking" Marquez when he offered him a career high purse which Marquez then REJECTED??

    Naz was not a ducker ... he fought higher ranked opponents than Marquez during his reign at the top ... Marquez was never seen as anyone special then

    Naz was always willing and even waiting to fight any of the Mexicans ... Marquez was never anything until the Pac fights and that is really all that he has to his name. Losing to Pac 3 straight times before finally getting a victory while clearly on enhancement drugs.

    He would've knocked Marquez out.

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    @TitoFan - You can cross words out too, It's nothing to do with being a mod, it's a simple posting option.

    1. Steward encouraged Hamed to "duck" Marquez but also encouraged him to fight him. He was his trainer when the fight was offered, so obviously wasn't as scared of Marquez as that 5 second clip led you to believe.

    2. You've pulled a 60 second clip from a documentary focused on highlighting and praising Marquez career. They are hardly going to go into details about Marquez later refusing to fight Naz. Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant both agreed in the video I provided that - "Marquez turning down Naz makes it look like he's scared of getting beat up." Are they "authority" enough?

    3. What "credible" people said Marquez got a shitty bogus offer? I've given evidence of his own matchmaker criticising him and Nacho Beristain for refusing the fight. HBO were dumbfounded that he refused the fight. Doug Fischer, one of the journos from your video, criticised Marquez for not taking the fight, along with lots of other journos. Marquez fought Daniel Jimenez ONE week after he refused the Naz fight/date. There were no excuses. The only question to answer is - why did Marquez turndown $500,000 for $5000 a week later? Why?

    4. Show me the evidence, as I've provided you, of Marquez making offers to fight Naz? Show me what purses Naz turned down? Show me some dates? Venues?
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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    As much as I'd like to stay and debate this longer today... I'm afraid I have other engagements. But let me just comment on your points. I'll gladly come back later or tomorrow and continue debating.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post

    1. Steward encouraged Hamed to "duck" Marquez but also encouraged him to fight him. He was his trainer when the fight was offered, so obviously wasn't as scared of Marquez as that 5 second clip led you to believe.

    Ok you lost me here. Steward encouraged Hamed to duck Marquez but also encouraged him to fight him Ok whatever. Unfortunately, a "5-second clip" is all I have to go by. If you have a clip of Steward encouraging Hamed to fight Marquez, please share it. Although it still won't prove Hamed wasn't scared of Marquez.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post

    Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant both agreed in the video I provided that - "Marquez turning down Naz makes it look like he's scared of getting beat up." Are they "authority" enough?

    For someone with an infatuation with the word "fact", you sure have some ill-conceived conception of what facts are. It's only a fact that Lampley and Merchant said it LOOKS like Marquez is scared by turning down Naz. Does that translate into a fact that Marquez was in fact scared of Naz? I hope you say "No" to that. It's a video of the interpretation of what two sportscasters thinks it looks like that Marquez turned down Naz under circumstances they are not privy to.

    Hamed had two years to fight Marquez..... TWO YEARS. And Marquez is supposed to drop everything and take a fight without proper preparation because Hamed's people suddenly grow a pair of balls (or get tired of being accused of ducking Marquez) and throw Marquez an offer when Marquez was already set to fight someone else?

    C'mon. The fight game is all about posturing and one-upping the other. That's why Pac and Floyd have never fought and probably never will. Maybe it's not even due to "ducking" as we all like to say. Maybe it's just the damn posturing and one-upping between the fighters camps. "No... it's not when you say... it's when I say." That kind of shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post

    @TitoFan - You can cross words out too, It's nothing to do with being a mod, it's a simple posting option.

    My option must be defective..... I used to be able to do it, but haven't been able to for a long time. You wouldn't mind a helpful hint to a fellow saddo'er, would you?

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    Not sure who was ducking who but Marquez lost his chance when he was beat by Norwood. Before that he was in line for a shot.

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    @TitoFan - you click the reply button and then look for this ABC and click it.

    I've backed up everything I said with evidence from numerous sources. I have provided dates, purses, fighters, trainers, managers, matchmakers, TV companies, commentators and journalists.

    Your "evidence" consists of one lone journalist saying "Naz ducked Marquez"

    Lets put this to bed... just provide evidence of Marquez making offers to fight Naz (as you claimed)? Show me what purses Naz turned down? Show me some dates? Was Marquez going to England?
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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    @TitoFan - you click the reply button and then look for this ABC and click it.

    I've backed up everything I said with evidence from numerous sources. I have provided dates, purses, fighters, trainers, managers, matchmakers, TV companies, commentators and journalists.


    Your "evidence" consists of one lone journalist saying "Naz ducked Marquez"

    Lets put this to bed... just provide evidence of Marquez making offers to fight Naz (as you claimed)? Show me what purses Naz turned down? Show me some dates? Was Marquez going to England?


    Ok Fenster... I'm trying the crossout feature. It's not a real crossout... just a test.

    Look... here's an article on the subject.

    LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...


    Make of it what you will. Personally, I think it's completely wrong to claim that Marquez ducked Hamed. Turning down a fight and giving specific reasons as to why does not constitute ducking. As I said before... the fight game's all about posturing, seeing who can their terms over the other guy. Marquez had no reason to duck Hamed, something that was made painfully obvious when Naseem faced Barrera and was humiliated.

    Someone posted a a few posts back that Marquez wasn't anyone and that the Pac fights is all he has to his name. A bit of an ignorant post, I think, because Marquez was much more than that. He was the mandatory challenger, and I still haven't seen a documented explanation as to why he was never offered a fight during those two years when he was the mandatory. That's all I'm saying.



    P.S. - Ok, I see the crossout feature worked... thanks. Also, I realize you had posted the same link a while back. I think we're just interpreting it differently. You feel it says Marquez ducked Hamed, whereas I don't see that.

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    I agree with you 100% @TitoFan - "Turning down a fight and giving specific reasons as to why does not constitute ducking"

    Just like saying a fighter "ducked" another without a single shred of evidence that any negotiations ever took place doesn't constitute ducking either. We only have evidence that Marquez turned down an offer from Naz. You now agree with all my sources that said Marquez had "no reason" to turn the fight down. However, he did, and that's why boxing "experts" were surprised and criticised him.

    I only ever say Marquez ducked Naz in response to people claiming Naz ducked Marquez. There's no evidence so it's bogus and silly. I'm just revealing the facts and truth. That's all. I don't favour either fighter.
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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    So basically what we're weighing in on here is turning down one date against not fighting your manditory for two years?

    That, coupled with their legacies shows me that one may have been less willing to fight than the other.

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    Default

    Based on the evidence provided in this thread marquez turned down a career high purse to fight naz, to me thats a duck!

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    I just spotted over a hundred people viewing this thread? Pac fights still get the Filipinos buzzing
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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    Forget the "buzzing Filipinos"!!!! I just found the Saddo equivalent of the lost scrolls! An actual civilized argument about whether JMM ducked Naz between Fenster and I.

    Where oh where did it all go so wrong?




    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    @TitoFan - you click the reply button and then look for this ABC and click it.

    I've backed up everything I said with evidence from numerous sources. I have provided dates, purses, fighters, trainers, managers, matchmakers, TV companies, commentators and journalists.


    Your "evidence" consists of one lone journalist saying "Naz ducked Marquez"

    Lets put this to bed... just provide evidence of Marquez making offers to fight Naz (as you claimed)? Show me what purses Naz turned down? Show me some dates? Was Marquez going to England?


    Ok Fenster... I'm trying the crossout feature. It's not a real crossout... just a test.

    Look... here's an article on the subject.

    LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...


    Make of it what you will. Personally, I think it's completely wrong to claim that Marquez ducked Hamed. Turning down a fight and giving specific reasons as to why does not constitute ducking. As I said before... the fight game's all about posturing, seeing who can their terms over the other guy. Marquez had no reason to duck Hamed, something that was made painfully obvious when Naseem faced Barrera and was humiliated.

    Someone posted a a few posts back that Marquez wasn't anyone and that the Pac fights is all he has to his name. A bit of an ignorant post, I think, because Marquez was much more than that. He was the mandatory challenger, and I still haven't seen a documented explanation as to why he was never offered a fight during those two years when he was the mandatory. That's all I'm saying.



    P.S. - Ok, I see the crossout feature worked... thanks. Also, I realize you had posted the same link a while back. I think we're just interpreting it differently. You feel it says Marquez ducked Hamed, whereas I don't see that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    I agree with you 100% @TitoFan - "Turning down a fight and giving specific reasons as to why does not constitute ducking"

    Just like saying a fighter "ducked" another without a single shred of evidence that any negotiations ever took place doesn't constitute ducking either. We only have evidence that Marquez turned down an offer from Naz. You now agree with all my sources that said Marquez had "no reason" to turn the fight down. However, he did, and that's why boxing "experts" were surprised and criticised him.

    I only ever say Marquez ducked Naz in response to people claiming Naz ducked Marquez. There's no evidence so it's bogus and silly. I'm just revealing the facts and truth. That's all. I don't favour either fighter.

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    I just spotted over a hundred people viewing this thread? Pac fights still get the Filipinos buzzing
    Would I be right in thinking we've actually had a few new members over the last week or so?

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    I just spotted over a hundred people viewing this thread? Pac fights still get the Filipinos buzzing
    Would I be right in thinking we've actually had a few new members over the last week or so?
    The Manny fans are fickle and only come around when he fights.Suprised walrus has hung around this long. He will leave when Pace Man retires.
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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    I just spotted over a hundred people viewing this thread? Pac fights still get the Filipinos buzzing
    Would I be right in thinking we've actually had a few new members over the last week or so?
    The Manny fans are fickle and only come around when he fights.Suprised walrus has hung around this long. He will leave when Pace Man retires.
    ...but @Master will never leave because Floyd will always be in the spotlight!!!

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    Default Re: Pac-Naz - we now have definitve proof. Fact.

    I was always a bit of a Naz fan. His fights were huge over here and generated lots of excitement, he was very rarely in a boring snooze fest.

    He was a hugely unorthodox fighter, like many Wincobank fighters were, and he had truly freakish power.

    However, and I have said this before, his pure talent made him cut corners and his technique was flawed. He had to set his feet for big shots, he was off balance most of the time and he had no defence apart from his reflexes.

    We saw what Barrera did to him, and I think that Marquez does the same. Paquiao, with his blistering speed and angles would have overwhelmed Naz I fear
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