The rematch, Carl Froch - Mikkel Kessler 2 fight chat thread - Warriors Call !!!

[Beanz]

Ward Dawson did 8K in attendance and was a decently exciting live fight. Ward is still young and an Olympic gold medalist, for anyone to suggest he is a lame duck is full of it. Even if he was, Hopkins still isn't a draw to this day! Why should we as boxing fans care? Oracle isn't even conducive to watching boxing (the UFC did a similar gate for a ppv event.. ) People in America know who Ward is and his visibility is higher because of his HBO gig. NOBODY here talks about Froch, Mayweather, Paccquaio and the Mexicans are the only ones who move the needle in America. Broner after that and thats just bbecause I'm lucky enough to live in a boxing conscience area in the Bay Area. Both Ward and Froch are good for boxing as is Kessler. Ward is the number 2 p4p guy in the sport and no one wants to see this fight in England because of the crowd, they just want to see a more competitive Ward Froch fight than wha took place at a nearly nneutral venue. I don't care but I think anyone saying this bout Has to happen in England is ridiculous. Why not make Martinez Chavez 2 in Mexico? Why not? Good for Froch but if some stubborn refusal to come to the USA after Froch clearly lost a bout here holds up this fight then that isn't on Ward.

With that said, if the bout isn't in Oakland and I can't go, I would like to see it happen in England.

Why is saying that a bout where the holder of two belts in a division, versus a guy with no belts, and less fans willing to turn up, or buy a PPV ticket, has to happen in the Champions home country, ridiculous ? That is without factoring in the fact that the champion has already went to the country of the other guy in his first match.

Don't you get it ? Do you think Froch or Eddie Hearn care if nobody in America has heard of Froch ? Plenty of people in America are isolated and introspective to the point of deaf and blindness when it comes to any non American in any field. Froch doesn't need America, Boxing doesn't need America, The rest of the world doesn't need America.

Exactly how is Atlantic city a nearly neutral venue? It's home soil. Ward is American. Froch is English. London is not Nottingham did Froch try and argue that therefore the O2 was a nearly neutral venue?

Your flimsy stubborn refusal argument just doesn't wash, you are already making excuses for Ward before he has been offered the fight. And then you wonder why people think you come across as arrogant.

[walrus]

It isn't the US who thinks the US is at the top of the world in boxing, it is every fighter in the world who wants to break through into the US market. Most of these foreign boxers would be obscure if it were not for our country.

Don't forget, the Beatles were an English band but it was the US market that launched them into the beyond superstar status they have. You Brits do have some kickass fish and chips, I gotta give you that.

[Fenster]

Ward Dawson did 8K in attendance and was a decently exciting live fight. Ward is still young and an Olympic gold medalist, for anyone to suggest he is a lame duck is full of it. Even if he was, Hopkins still isn't a draw to this day! Why should we as boxing fans care? Oracle isn't even conducive to watching boxing (the UFC did a similar gate for a ppv event.. ) People in America know who Ward is and his visibility is higher because of his HBO gig. NOBODY here talks about Froch, Mayweather, Paccquaio and the Mexicans are the only ones who move the needle in America. Broner after that and thats just bbecause I'm lucky enough to live in a boxing conscience area in the Bay Area. Both Ward and Froch are good for boxing as is Kessler. Ward is the number 2 p4p guy in the sport and no one wants to see this fight in England because of the crowd, they just want to see a more competitive Ward Froch fight than wha took place at a nearly nneutral venue. I don't care but I think anyone saying this bout Has to happen in England is ridiculous. Why not make Martinez Chavez 2 in Mexico? Why not? Good for Froch but if some stubborn refusal to come to the USA after Froch clearly lost a bout here holds up this fight then that isn't on Ward.

With that said, if the bout isn't in Oakland and I can't go, I would like to see it happen in England.

Why is saying that a bout where the holder of two belts in a division, versus a guy with no belts, and less fans willing to turn up, or buy a PPV ticket, has to happen in the Champions home country, ridiculous ? That is without factoring in the fact that the champion has already went to the country of the other guy in his first match.

Don't you get it ? Do you think Froch or Eddie Hearn care if nobody in America has heard of Froch ? Plenty of people in America are isolated and introspective to the point of deaf and blindness when it comes to any non American in any field. Froch doesn't need America, Boxing doesn't need America, The rest of the world doesn't need America.

Exactly how is Atlantic city a nearly neutral venue? It's home soil. Ward is American. Froch is English. London is not Nottingham did Froch try and argue that therefore the O2 was a nearly neutral venue?

Your flimsy stubborn refusal argument just doesn't wash, you are already making excuses for Ward before he has been offered the fight. And then you wonder why people think you come across as arrogant.

I agree with the majority of your post but the silly belts shouldn't be part of any argument. Ward was stripped of his belts. He already took the WBA of Kessler and the WBC off Froch. Ward is the true champion at 168 regardless of belts.

[ross]

It isn't the US who thinks the US is at the top of the world in boxing, it is every fighter in the world who wants to break through into the US market. Most of these foreign boxers would be obscure if it were not for our country.

Don't forget, the Beatles were an English band but it was the US market that launched them into the beyond superstar status they have. You Brits do have some kickass fish and chips, I gotta give you that.

No you mean because they went to america they went big in america, they already had superstar status where they came from and had already sold 1.5 million copies of "I want to hold your hand" in less than 3 weeks in America a month before they even set foot there.

Same as Ward. Until he travels he will just be a minor boxing name to the general public. When he travels he might be more well known

[Beanz]

Ward Dawson did 8K in attendance and was a decently exciting live fight. Ward is still young and an Olympic gold medalist, for anyone to suggest he is a lame duck is full of it. Even if he was, Hopkins still isn't a draw to this day! Why should we as boxing fans care? Oracle isn't even conducive to watching boxing (the UFC did a similar gate for a ppv event.. ) People in America know who Ward is and his visibility is higher because of his HBO gig. NOBODY here talks about Froch, Mayweather, Paccquaio and the Mexicans are the only ones who move the needle in America. Broner after that and thats just bbecause I'm lucky enough to live in a boxing conscience area in the Bay Area. Both Ward and Froch are good for boxing as is Kessler. Ward is the number 2 p4p guy in the sport and no one wants to see this fight in England because of the crowd, they just want to see a more competitive Ward Froch fight than wha took place at a nearly nneutral venue. I don't care but I think anyone saying this bout Has to happen in England is ridiculous. Why not make Martinez Chavez 2 in Mexico? Why not? Good for Froch but if some stubborn refusal to come to the USA after Froch clearly lost a bout here holds up this fight then that isn't on Ward.

With that said, if the bout isn't in Oakland and I can't go, I would like to see it happen in England.

Why is saying that a bout where the holder of two belts in a division, versus a guy with no belts, and less fans willing to turn up, or buy a PPV ticket, has to happen in the Champions home country, ridiculous ? That is without factoring in the fact that the champion has already went to the country of the other guy in his first match.

Don't you get it ? Do you think Froch or Eddie Hearn care if nobody in America has heard of Froch ? Plenty of people in America are isolated and introspective to the point of deaf and blindness when it comes to any non American in any field. Froch doesn't need America, Boxing doesn't need America, The rest of the world doesn't need America.

Exactly how is Atlantic city a nearly neutral venue? It's home soil. Ward is American. Froch is English. London is not Nottingham did Froch try and argue that therefore the O2 was a nearly neutral venue?

Your flimsy stubborn refusal argument just doesn't wash, you are already making excuses for Ward before he has been offered the fight. And then you wonder why people think you come across as arrogant.

I agree with the majority of your post but the silly belts shouldn't be part of any argument. Ward was stripped of his belts. He already took the WBA of Kessler and the WBC off Froch. Ward is the true champion at 168 regardless of belts.

I know what your saying and one of the few things that Ward should be given credit for, outside of a ring, is his refusal to play Sulaimans games by giving up the WBC belt. That does not mean though that belts are meaningless. However little importance we attach to them because of the B/S politics, fighters still love them. If you had seen Froch yesterday proudly show off his new belt before almost OCD like, meticulously put it into it's presentation case in the back of his car you would have seen that demonstrated. Casual fans do still attach importance to belts also, and in an effort to attract them and their cash, the fact that they like the authenticity,( however false that actually is) the ring of fighting for a world championship belt adds to competitions, will mean promoters take them into consideration also. However small the factor they help in selling fights.

Froch may not be the best at 168 in the world, but in this round he has the best hand and Ward just seems to be overplaying a weak set of cards on the strength of winning a tournament that is now over.

[amat]

So are you saying Froch is the number 1 guy in the division. Show me any relevant division ranking that isn'tthe WBC or WbO and i will be impressed. Also, AC isn't neutral exactly buy it's as close as neutral gets. IIt's a 5 day drive from where Ward lives. There wasn't the fervent support he gets in the Bay Area, anyone can see that and that is why I said nearly neutral . All I'm saying is that the only reason people should care where this fight is if they want to go see it live.

Otherwise it's just stupid, then you just want to tilt the scales toward Froch so he can possibly do better in a bout he got ddominated in before. It's just stupid for fans to insist on this. Have them fight in Vegas. It's the most money I'm sure and if Froch is such a huge star then he can swing a hometown advantage there like Hatton used to.

[Beanz]

So are you saying Froch is the number 1 guy in the division. Show me any relevant division ranking that isn'tthe WBC or WbO and i will be impressed. Also, AC isn't neutral exactly buy it's as close as neutral gets. IIt's a 5 day drive from where Ward lives. There wasn't the fervent support he gets in the Bay Area, anyone can see that and that is why I said nearly neutral . All I'm saying is that the only reason people should care where this fight is if they want to go see it live.

Otherwise it's just stupid, then you just want to tilt the scales toward Froch so he can possibly do better in a bout he got ddominated in before. It's just stupid for fans to insist on this. Have them fight in Vegas. It's the most money I'm sure and if Froch is such a huge star then he can swing a hometown advantage there like Hatton used to.

Nice trollin and baiting there. If you think the IBF and WBA titles mean nothing, then you can not possibly attribute any importance to ranking. If you believe that AC is as close to neutral as it gets or that Ward gets fervent support anywhere, then you are doing really well to be holding down a job with such a big meth habit and should be congratulated. Well Done.

[Master]

To be fair the straps mean nothing, ward has the victory it is up to Carl if he really wants to beat him to offer a reasonable price for him to go over to England.

[Violent Demise]

It's all pretty simple. If they want Ward to go fight in the UK they should make him an offer. Have they ever made Ward an offer? No they have not. It's one thing to say you wanna face a fighter and just leave it at that. It's another to say it and actually try and make the fight.

[Beanz]

Give them a chance. It has not been 24 since Froch fought yet. Ward was the one who flew to England, Ward's trainer was the one who could only bring himself to call last nights fight a draw, Ward was the one who was accusing Hearn of cashing out with Froch and getting him easy fights, Ward was the one who suggested he had a problem with coming to the UK. He may be "the number one guy in the division" but the whole world doesn't revolve, stop and start at the command of Andre Ward, Son of God or not.

[amat]

So are you saying Froch is the number 1 guy in the division. Show me any relevant division ranking that isn'tthe WBC or WbO and i will be impressed. Also, AC isn't neutral exactly buy it's as close as neutral gets. IIt's a 5 day drive from where Ward lives. There wasn't the fervent support he gets in the Bay Area, anyone can see that and that is why I said nearly neutral . All I'm saying is that the only reason people should care where this fight is if they want to go see it live.

Otherwise it's just stupid, then you just want to tilt the scales toward Froch so he can possibly do better in a bout he got ddominated in before. It's just stupid for fans to insist on this. Have them fight in Vegas. It's the most money I'm sure and if Froch is such a huge star then he can swing a hometown advantage there like Hatton used to.

Nice trollin and baiting there. If you think the IBF and WBA titles mean nothing, then you can not possibly attribute any importance to ranking. If you believe that AC is as close to neutral as it gets or that Ward gets fervent support anywhere, then you are doing really well to be holding down a job with such a big meth habit and should be congratulated. Well Done.

Are you kidding me? I mean rankings like the ring, especially etc not the sanctioning bodies. And yyes, the belts mean nothing. Everyone will agree on this. All I was saying is that AC isn't the same home field advantage you would get in Oakland or England. That's all,. What is your deal? Your first reaction to an Englishman beating someone from Denmark was to say Fuck America so I guess I'm not surprised.

Anyways, I WANT THE FIGHT TO BE IN England so lay off the petty insults, we can disagree without you saying I have a problem with meth or even that I have a job.

[Master]

Amat take it easy, Greenbeanz is not being personal but do not get him angry, you will not like him when he gets angry.

[Beanz]

So are you saying Froch is the number 1 guy in the division. Show me any relevant division ranking that isn'tthe WBC or WbO and i will be impressed. Also, AC isn't neutral exactly buy it's as close as neutral gets. IIt's a 5 day drive from where Ward lives. There wasn't the fervent support he gets in the Bay Area, anyone can see that and that is why I said nearly neutral . All I'm saying is that the only reason people should care where this fight is if they want to go see it live.

Otherwise it's just stupid, then you just want to tilt the scales toward Froch so he can possibly do better in a bout he got ddominated in before. It's just stupid for fans to insist on this. Have them fight in Vegas. It's the most money I'm sure and if Froch is such a huge star then he can swing a hometown advantage there like Hatton used to.

Nice trollin and baiting there. If you think the IBF and WBA titles mean nothing, then you can not possibly attribute any importance to ranking. If you believe that AC is as close to neutral as it gets or that Ward gets fervent support anywhere, then you are doing really well to be holding down a job with such a big meth habit and should be congratulated. Well Done.

Are you kidding me? I mean rankings like the ring, especially etc not the sanctioning bodies. And yyes, the belts mean nothing. Everyone will agree on this. All I was saying is that AC isn't the same home field advantage you would get in Oakland or England. That's all,. What is your deal? Your first reaction to an Englishman beating someone from Denmark was to say Fuck America so I guess I'm not surprised.

Anyways, I WANT THE FIGHT TO BE IN England so lay off the petty insults, we can disagree without you saying I have a problem with meth or even that I have a job.

What I am saying and what is abundantly clear is that Froch could not possibly do anymore to give himself a high ranking at SMW. Who do you suggest he should fight other than Ward to do so ? Not everyone will agree that belts mean nothing, that is a one dimensional viewpoint that gets trotted out because it makes boxing fans feel more hardcore and knowing. In the grand scheme of things they may not be very important but you can not dismiss them all together, they serve a purpose. Like the artwork on an Album they draw people in. My first reaction at the end of the fight was

"Great, great fight. Much clearer win than the first fight but still close. Well done Carl."

then

"Glad that Froch won after every one saying "I'm supporting Kessler because he is more of a gent" really? It's not celebrity big brother. Both are a credit to boxing. Great fight."


then 5 posts and three pages later after Ward had been droning on about how "it wasn't as action packed as the first fight" and "you have to come to the US to be a star." and all his other disparaging remarks after watching a spectacle and FOTY contender with nearly three times the attendance of his last fight, coupled with VD's comments about coming to England to be robbed, comes the comment that pushed your button.

The fact that A. you assumed it was my first comment and

B. Were not surprised


seems to indicate you already had made plenty of assumptions and surprises me with how a veteran poster can be so over sensitive.

I get that AC is not Oakland and is very far away but that does nothing to bring it closer to Europe let alone England. AC is in America which happens to be very big but it is still Wards country. Or did he only represent Oakland in the Olympics ?

[amat]

Imo most casual fans don't even understand the concept that divisions have multiple titles. Ward is the champion and everyone knows this. Froch is clearly next best in the division and everyone should know this as well. Froch had proven that just with his dismantling of Bute honestly. There is no higher ascension for Froch without beating Ward, I never said otherwise. If anyone thinks that Froch is number 1 in the division because of two paper titles is wrong, not saying anyone said that. As far as who needs who, well for a number one ranking then Froch clearly needs Ward. For a bigger payday then anyone else would offer (except maybe Chavez Jr), then Ward needs Froch. Im done with the nneutral venue point because you are seemingly missing my point. Just watch the Froch Ward fight and then watch the Dawson Ward fight and notice the difference in crowds.

Anyways as far as the actual fight, great fight just touch firepower from Froch. Hes still far to available to hit but the right hand seemed to really bother Kessler. Froch can punch from all ranges and really he mixed up what he lead in with so Kessler was never able to settle behind a jab.

[Fenster]

Imo most casual fans don't even understand the concept that divisions have multiple titles. Ward is the champion and everyone knows this. Froch is clearly next best in the division and everyone should know this as well. Froch had proven that just with his dismantling of Bute honestly. There is no higher ascension for Froch without beating Ward, I never said otherwise. If anyone thinks that Froch is number 1 in the division because of two paper titles is wrong, not saying anyone said that. As far as who needs who, well for a number one ranking then Froch clearly needs Ward. For a bigger payday then anyone else would offer (except maybe Chavez Jr), then Ward needs Froch. Im done with the nneutral venue point because you are seemingly missing my point. Just watch the Froch Ward fight and then watch the Dawson Ward fight and notice the difference in crowds.

Anyways as far as the actual fight, great fight just touch firepower from Froch. Hes still far to available to hit but the right hand seemed to really bother Kessler. Froch can punch from all ranges and really he mixed up what he lead in with so Kessler was never able to settle behind a jab.

Sadly that's not true. Even on a forum like this people still can't understand the concept that multiple world champions per division is an utter nonsense. To many on here - seems like a shiny belt is more important than actually having a victory over someone. Amazing.