Message to all Americans: your time is up

[brocktonblockbust]

[Beanz]

What a condescending annoying Prick Celente is with his whiny, self obsessed rants and lap dog slurping at the feet of master Alex. Having said that he makes some prescient points. America though no doubt starting with SOME good intentions was never the bastion of Democracy that many inside and out claim it to be. It started as, and on paper, still is a Republic. It has evolved though, and became an oligarchy which morphed into a plutocracy and ended up as corporatocracy. Those with money have the power and that is written into the lauded system that the elite founding fathers created when rule of law replaced democracy. America was never a democracy and still isn't.

Celente can miss an old fabled America that never existed because he obviously feels disenfranchised by a changing country that is not the same as the imaginary one he remembers. It's called getting old and nostalgic. He can't on the one hand moan about supporting the corrupt systems and then suggest that America be restored in his image as though his "new way" which apparently is as old as the Bible will magically remove the power from the financial elite of which he is part. He is an unrelenting doom monger and the American equivalent of Russell Grant.

For most outsiders America has never seemed to be about Democracy and freedom. It wasn't during Celente's youth and it isn't now. It is about Business. The opportunities it affords are financial. Gerald and Alex are products of it and they are in it for the money. The conspiracy business is a big money spinner and they are reeling people in, like the money shills they are.

They harvest their stories from the mainstream media they pretend to despise and feed leech like off people's fear and prejudices, regurgitating 3rd hand news as though they are prophets. They present a version of independent thinking that is as shrink wrapped and mass produced as the corporate industries they pretend to rail against.

[brocktonblockbust]

I can agree with you 50%

but fuck you about Fragae and my messgae

[Gandalf]

There has never been any pretence at serious democracy, but America once provided decent standards of living for its populace and didn't try to police the world. I guess that is the kind of America Celente is nostalgic about. At one time America seemed to be moving towards some kind of progress both economically and in terms of equal rights. Housing was affordable, raising a child was affordable, education was affordable, healthcare was affordable, retiring was affordable and so on and so on. Nowadays it has all been stripped away and whereas once America was happy just stripping the independance of sovereign countries for resources, it then started to chip away at its own populace too when Wall Street simply had to have more. The middle class which expanded throughout much of the 20th century has been steadly gouged away and it is shrinking alarmingly. There is a great lecture on the decline of the America middle class by Elizabeth Warren which is available on You Tube.

I think GB is harsh on Celente who is doing nothing more than presenting the truth albeit in a bombastic manner. If there is a fault in what he is saying then it should be picked upon, but on the whole Celente is fairly consistent and I have no issues with him making a living by it as a whole lot more in the mainstream media are making a lot more money by basically misinforming the American people and creating people like Lyle. A media that gives airtime to Dick Cheney to ruminate on 'harm to national security', which constantly updates you on stock markets despite most of us living ordinary lives without any stocks and shares, which ignores 3rd party candidates et al et al is a whole lot worse than the likes of Celente saying that life was better before and things are going down the shitter. He is telling the truth and it is observable to any half awake pug.

All media is self serving to some degree or another and there is an obvious reason for that. The British Royal family is a case in point. You are told that a Royal Birth is significant and should pay attention, you are told this must be true as the media is telling you it is. To any of those half awake pugs, they can see through the manipulation and deception. Celente would simply tell it as it is and use a witty line and an expletive to say it. The mainstream media is complicit in a whole lot more than Celente is. The mainstream media has sold wars based upon lies to the public just because the politicians told them to do so.

It's easy to criticise the likes of Celente when they try to tell the truth about the systems that indoctrinate from the off. The indoctrinated are the vast bulk of people and people who shake the shackles off and tell it straight should be commended. Alex Jones annoys me somewhat, but I like Celente a lot more. He seems more intelligent and there aren't really any holes in what he is saying factually.

[brocktonblockbust]

There has never been any pretence at serious democracy, but America once provided decent standards of living for its populace and didn't try to police the world. I guess that is the kind of America Celente is nostalgic about. At one time America seemed to be moving towards some kind of progress both economically and in terms of equal rights. Housing was affordable, raising a child was affordable, education was affordable, healthcare was affordable, retiring was affordable and so on and so on. Nowadays it has all been stripped away and whereas once America was happy just stripping the independance of sovereign countries for resources, it then started to chip away at its own populace too when Wall Street simply had to have more. The middle class which expanded throughout much of the 20th century has been steadly gouged away and it is shrinking alarmingly. There is a great lecture on the decline of the America middle class by Elizabeth Warren which is available on You Tube.

I think GB is harsh on Celente who is doing nothing more than presenting the truth albeit in a bombastic manner. If there is a fault in what he is saying then it should be picked upon, but on the whole Celente is fairly consistent and I have no issues with him making a living by it as a whole lot more in the mainstream media are making a lot more money by basically misinforming the American people and creating people like Lyle. A media that gives airtime to Dick Cheney to ruminate on 'harm to national security', which constantly updates you on stock markets despite most of us living ordinary lives without any stocks and shares, which ignores 3rd party candidates et al et al is a whole lot worse than the likes of Celente saying that life was better before and things are going down the shitter. He is telling the truth and it is observable to any half awake pug.

All media is self serving to some degree or another and there is an obvious reason for that. The British Royal family is a case in point. You are told that a Royal Birth is significant and should pay attention, you are told this must be true as the media is telling you it is. To any of those half awake pugs, they can see through the manipulation and deception. Celente would simply tell it as it is and use a witty line and an expletive to say it. The mainstream media is complicit in a whole lot more than Celente is. The mainstream media has sold wars based upon lies to the public just because the politicians told them to do so.

It's easy to criticise the likes of Celente when they try to tell the truth about the systems that indoctrinate from the off. The indoctrinated are the vast bulk of people and people who shake the shackles off and tell it straight should be commended. Alex Jones annoys me somewhat, but I like Celente a lot more. He seems more intelligent and there aren't really any holes in what he is saying factually.

Agree 100%

[VictorCharlie]

I'm a middle class American that is married with three children. We have affordable housing so much that not only did a buy a nice home in a nice neighborhood but I rent it for a profit and rent a 2500 square foot home that I live in. We buy almost no processed food but rather almost 100% organic produce and beef/pork/chicken/fish etc. Our grocery bill is completely affordable. My children go to a good school and all three have accounts we contribute to for their college education. While neither of my cars were bought new or are top of the line I own both. We are getting ready to take the rugrats on our third vacation this year. My wife works but somehow we find the time to eat dinner as a family and regularly do weekend activities. The American middle class is alive and well but no one is going to hand it to you. We made lots of sacrifices as a young couple, work very hard and still have to watch how we spend. You can have a good life here but it takes hard work, deferred gratification and not taking the all to easy victim attitude.

[Andre]

I'm a middle class American that is married with three children. We have affordable housing so much that not only did a buy a nice home in a nice neighborhood but I rent it for a profit and rent a 2500 square foot home that I live in. We buy almost no processed food but rather almost 100% organic produce and beef/pork/chicken/fish etc. Our grocery bill is completely affordable. My children go to a good school and all three have accounts we contribute to for their college education. While neither of my cars were bought new or are top of the line I own both. We are getting ready to take the rugrats on our third vacation this year. My wife works but somehow we find the time to eat dinner as a family and regularly do weekend activities. The American middle class is alive and well but no one is going to hand it to you. We made lots of sacrifices as a young couple, work very hard and still have to watch how we spend. You can have a good life here but it takes hard work, deferred gratification and not taking the all to easy victim attitude.

You guys are do'ers. That for the most part these days is where the line is drawn in the sand between the haves and have nots.
The difference between want and get involves expending energy not taking it.

[VictorCharlie]

Andre that is exactly my point. If you work hard and sacrifice you can make a decent life in this country. Miles is just ignorant of what life is like here but plenty of lazy ass American's would nod their head and go on believing the reason their life sucks is someones elses fault. I'm a pretty generous guy. We give a fair amount of our time to helping others and while we don't do much in cash donations we do give a lot of clothes etc to good will. I'll make an effort to help hardworking people that have hit a rough patch but if I have no compassion for ignorant people waiting around for someone to give them the life they think they deserve.

[Gandalf]

I am ignorant? Perhaps you are somewhat ignorant, VC. Maybe you are doing okay, but as far as I can observe significant swathes of your country would disagree with you. All of the things I stated above are true and are easily backed up. It is a fact that the middle class is shrinking, that wealth inequalities are huge, that health care is expensive, that more people are on food stamps, that manufacturing has been shipped to China, that higher education requires serious debt etc. Do you disagree with any of these obvious things? Is Elizabeth Warren also ignorant? As far as I can see she says the middle class is struggling and being pushed to its limits. Also you talk about being middle class, but how did you do it? You served in the military and went to Iraq which is a war that you have admitted was a mistake. Are those the kinds of sacrifices other Americans need to make? Personally, I don't think that is a very fair thing to ask of people.

I always bring up this lecture by Warren to articulate statistically what has happened to the middle class. Give it a view, VC and tell me how well the middle class of America has been faring since the 1960's. The American elite have been carrying out a constant attack for 40 years. This lecture is from several years ago and things have only deteriorated.

[killersheep]

It's not up to America to provide a decent wage, it's a framework so people can provide a decent wage to themselves.

I agree that our military is over reaching and should be contracted. All said and done, I still love my country and truly believe if we start thinking more locally we can become a prosperous nation once again.

I personally have never been unemployed since I have been of legal age to work, and since I was a young child I always did work to earn my way. I find it strange that there is a culture of people that simply don't want to do anything for themselves nowadays. People that eat out for every meal, pay someone to do all the repairs on their house, pay someone to do all the repairs on their car. These are all premium things in my opinion.

Also I work for an American manufacturing company, we have been on a stable profit pattern for many years now. We actually sell parts to China, because they are unable to produce them, themselves.

[killersheep]

I am ignorant? Perhaps you are somewhat ignorant, VC. Maybe you are doing okay, but as far as I can observe significant swathes of your country would disagree with you. All of the things I stated above are true and are easily backed up. It is a fact that the middle class is shrinking, that wealth inequalities are huge, that health care is expensive, that more people are on food stamps, that manufacturing has been shipped to China, that higher education requires serious debt etc. Do you disagree with any of these obvious things? Is Elizabeth Warren also ignorant? As far as I can see she says the middle class is struggling and being pushed to its limits. Also you talk about being middle class, but how did you do it? You served in the military and went to Iraq which is a war that you have admitted was a mistake. Are those the kinds of sacrifices other Americans need to make? Personally, I don't think that is a very fair thing to ask of people.

I always bring up this lecture by Warren to articulate statistically what has happened to the middle class. Give it a view, VC and tell me how well the middle class of America has been faring since the 1960's. The American elite have been carrying out a constant attack for 40 years. This lecture is from several years ago and things have only deteriorated.

Tell you what man, I have an extra room in my house. You can come over here and I will give you a tour of American living. Outside of youtube the world is a much different place. I would love to show you the revival going on in downtown Phoenix right now.

[Gandalf]

Just look at the data Warren provides at the 22 to 30 minute mark. American families have 2 parents working and spend massive proportions of their income on transportation, healthcare, mortgages, taxes and childcare. I am not disputing that there is a middle class and that some are doing very well for themselves. Of course that would be the case, but in general standards of living for middle class people have declined economically over recent decades. For those in the lower end sectors such as long term manufacturing, they have been eradicated and many others will clearly be struggling.

The only way families have survived is by making sure that more women work and in turn that means children are being raised very differently to generations past too. With two parents working families have LESS money that when there were largely single earning families. Now what will you say to disagree with the data that Warren provides? Elizabeth Warren is well respected and your ancedotal 'evidence' is clearly just that. America is a very big country and nobody denies that there are rich people or people with a spare room. I have one too, but that isn't really relevant to a bigger picture.

[killersheep]

Just look at the data Warren provides at the 22 to 30 minute mark. American families have 2 parents working and spend massive proportions of their income on transportation, healthcare, mortgages, taxes and childcare. I am not disputing that there is a middle class and that some are doing very well for themselves. Of course that would be the case, but in general standards of living for middle class people have declined economically over recent decades. For those in the lower end sectors such as long term manufacturing, they have been eradicated and many others will clearly be struggling.

The only way families have survived is by making sure that more women work and in turn that means children are being raised very differently to generations past too. With two parents working families have LESS money that when there were largely single earning families. Now what will you say to disagree with the data that Warren provides? Elizabeth Warren is well respected and your ancedotal 'evidence' is clearly just that. America is a very big country and nobody denies that there are rich people or people with a spare room. I have one too, but that isn't really relevant to a bigger picture.

I equate this phenomena with various things, of course the fact that we have more things as a rule of thumb has a lot to do with it. Just look around your apartment, put yourself in the place of your grandparents at your age and ask which of these things would they have? Even the lower classes have more stuff than prior generations. Here in Phoenix if someone were to live a very simple lifestyle (much akin to generations past) they could live on a minimum wage job, there would be a lot of sacrifices and extra work, but it's not unlike how people in the past lived. The more complicated our lives are the more expensive and the more we think we "need".

The bigger picture here is that I am offering to show you first hand how Americans live in the really real world (and of course I offer a room to my guests, I'm not bragging it's the purpose of the room) I can take you to the ghettos out here, I can take you to the elite neighborhoods. I am offering you the opportunity to examine what your studies are showing first hand. I am offering to show you how amazing and resilient people can be.

[Gandalf]

Just look at the data Warren provides at the 22 to 30 minute mark. American families have 2 parents working and spend massive proportions of their income on transportation, healthcare, mortgages, taxes and childcare. I am not disputing that there is a middle class and that some are doing very well for themselves. Of course that would be the case, but in general standards of living for middle class people have declined economically over recent decades. For those in the lower end sectors such as long term manufacturing, they have been eradicated and many others will clearly be struggling.

The only way families have survived is by making sure that more women work and in turn that means children are being raised very differently to generations past too. With two parents working families have LESS money that when there were largely single earning families. Now what will you say to disagree with the data that Warren provides? Elizabeth Warren is well respected and your ancedotal 'evidence' is clearly just that. America is a very big country and nobody denies that there are rich people or people with a spare room. I have one too, but that isn't really relevant to a bigger picture.

I equate this phenomena with various things, of course the fact that we have more things as a rule of thumb has a lot to do with it. Just look around your apartment, put yourself in the place of your grandparents at your age and ask which of these things would they have? Even the lower classes have more stuff than prior generations. Here in Phoenix if someone were to live a very simple lifestyle (much akin to generations past) they could live on a minimum wage job, there would be a lot of sacrifices and extra work, but it's not unlike how people in the past lived. The more complicated our lives are the more expensive and the more we think we "need".

The bigger picture here is that I am offering to show you first hand how Americans live in the really real world (and of course I offer a room to my guests, I'm not bragging it's the purpose of the room) I can take you to the ghettos out here, I can take you to the elite neighborhoods. I am offering you the opportunity to examine what your studies are showing first hand. I am offering to show you how amazing and resilient people can be.

In the past a single income would pay for the 5 five neccessities of home, taxes, child care, health and transport and still leave you with more than half of your income as disposable. The data Warren provides shows that those same things which most would argue they have a right to cost a lot more today and 2 breadwinners are spending 3 quarters of their income on them. That is a numerical decline.

Food, clothing and so on are cheaper today, but those things are always flexible. Having a home, paying taxes, and having the means to get to work are not flexible and that flexibility has been largely taken away.

Sure, many fritter away their money on trivial things, but on the whole money is gobbled up by rents, mortgages, health, tax and children. The same has largely happened in the UK too and I think it is incredibly unfair. People are enslaved by those burdens and of course education is a more recent addition to the burden.

People don't really have a choice and it is partly propaganda to be blaming the scroungers as Lyle does or say that America has plenty of opportunities when inequality in America is at peak levels and the numbers prove that the middle class is declining. There are scroungers and there are successful people, but it is also true that those in the middle are largely falling further behind. The statistics show it and it is real.

In the post WW2 period American quality of life was improving economically up until the 1960's and it has been in decline since. You cannot tell me that the Internet and a few gadgets makes up for the loss of freedoms, less disposable income, and the massive increase in cost for the neccessities. The peak of oil production is only going to destroy the tens of millions living in the suburbs in the future too which will be an additional crushing burden.

People should be able to earn enough to give them half their income to do what they want with as a minimum (not fact, just opinion). If you fritter it away then you deserve what you get, but you cannot just increase the neccessities 76% and apply the same rules. It is unfair and I just wonder where it will end. The increases cannot carry on without increasing inequality and reducing the middle classes. The increases alone make freedom an impossibility for many people, if you are not free to earn enough to save and be independant, then a few gadgets are not going to make up for that.

[brocktonblockbust]

sorry killersheep but there is no revival anywhere, no time, no where, in the usa. Smoke and mirrors, yes, you have plenty of that there, smoke and mirrors and shell games as I am trying to educate Kirkland Laing about----you know Kirkland, the guy who believes everything the govt accounting office and the admin tell him about employment and inflation stats, etc.