"Athleticism" As An Attribute In Boxing

[greynotsoold]

I'm interested to hear what you think this means, exactly, and what value it has.

[p4pking]

Yea it's a tough one and you've made good posts on this in the past. A lot of talented fighters probably do gear their camps more towards just being freakishly conditioned, rather than fixing their mistakes or learning how to box in the first place these days. Not sure if that's what you're trying to get at.

To put it one way, Andre Berto is probably as good a pure "athlete" as their was in boxing for a good while. Doesn't mean a lot if you don't have any craft behind it obviously. Then again if you've got two really schooled fighters, natural athleticism can make all the difference. I guess you'd just say wins in boxing rarely come down to who was the better athlete ultimately though, that's what makes it great.

[Rantcatrat]

Yea it's a tough one and you've made good posts on this in the past. A lot of talented fighters probably do gear their camps more towards just being freakishly conditioned, rather than fixing their mistakes or learning how to box in the first place these days. Not sure if that's what you're trying to get at.

To put it one way, Andre Berto is probably as good a pure "athlete" as their was in boxing for a good while. Doesn't mean a lot if you don't have any craft behind it obviously. Then again if you've got two really schooled fighters, natural athleticism can make all the difference. I guess you'd just say wins in boxing rarely come down to who was the better athlete ultimately though, that's what makes it great.

Good question. Grey - where do you come out on it?

Athleticism relates to speed, strength, reaction time, coordination and a combination of them. So, an athletic boxer might be someone who naturally punches faster, moves around the ring with more ease, punches with more power, has better reflexes and coordination etc. than his opponent.

[greynotsoold]

But...Julio Cesar Chavez was a better 'athlete' than...I've seen him up close many times and he was very un-impressive. But he could fight like a tiger. Carl Williams could out run Mike Tyson, dunk on him, beat him at anything except fist-fighting.

[Rantcatrat]

But...Julio Cesar Chavez was a better 'athlete' than...I've seen him up close many times and he was very un-impressive. But he could fight like a tiger. Carl Williams could out run Mike Tyson, dunk on him, beat him at anything except fist-fighting.

Right, and Carl Williams couldn't lift weights with Arnold.

It's a complicated topic with many parts.

There are good all-around athletes, meaning they could pick up most sports and be very competitive without too much training. We all had the guys in high school that were on the baseball, basketball and football teams. For example, blanking on his name, but wasn't the quarterback of the 49ers also a baseball phenom, but decided to go the football route? Remember Bo Jackson? And wasn't there NFL safety, again blanking on his name, that had some boxing fights during the NFL lockout.

On the other hand, sometimes great athletes in one sport are only good at that sport. Their physical attributes combined with the skill set required to be successful in their chosen sport lend to success there, but that combination doesn't translate across the board.

Good all-round athlete doesn't equate to good boxer. Good boxer doesn't equate to good all-around athlete.

There are some innate, natural, if you will, physical attributes that should lead to success as an athlete across the board. For example, quick reflexes has to be a good trait for almost every sport. Speed, whether foot or hand, is helpful for success.

[Bo-Bo24]

I think its an important attribute and is something that cant really be taught so it gives some boxers an edge. I remember a few years ago someone said that America's missing out on lots of HW boxers because they chose to go into other sports such as American football so its obviously a good attribute for a boxer to have but its by no means the be all and end all.

[greynotsoold]

I don't think it has to do so much with reflexes, in any sport. I've been reading about how a batter, in baseball, from experience, learns to predict the pitch at the top of the pitcher's delivery. This happens in tennis and other sports, and it happens in boxing.
I don't think that the ability to run faster or jump higher helps in boxing (other than in dire emergencies)...Boxing is a pretty specialized thing in that it happens under fire; you get hurt right now if you are wrong.That is a pretty special condition that affects a lot of individuals and their athleticism.

[justaguy]

Well, you look at guys who have athleticism and they can be great or they can be good or they can be duds, dependent upon a few things. Reaction times slow when one gets older - people eventually figure out freakish fighters and take away the best thing that fighter does. Also, the aura of invincibility goes away once someone knocks them off the mountain and suddenly we're not talking about the same guy.

Examples... Roy Jones, Jr. was freakishly athletic (steroids talk aside, he was that way in the Olympics). His reaction time has slowed and once Tarver KO'd him, the aura was gone. He no longer believed he was who people thought he once was, and that was one of his greatest attributes.

Berto is a great athlete. He is a knucklehead in terms of using that to his advantage, so his athleticism got him only so far, until he fought guys that can really fight.

Hopkins is not the most athletic guy, but he is an example of a guy who uses what gifts he has to his advantage. He is always in top condition and he has better stamina than most of his opponents. He is also very smart in the ring and adapts to the other guy's best 'stuff' - he takes away opponents' best athletic attributes.

I'd say Seth Mitchell is athletic... but is he a boxer? Not really - he doesn't have 'it' - whatever 'it' is.