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Thread: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

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    Default What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    Of the 61 fights that Clay/Ali fought 29 wouldn't be allowed nowadays as heavyweight because one or both opponents were below 200 lbs at the time of the bout. In other words they would run as cruiser fights (or below) and Klitschko wouldn't be allowed to stage them.

    Of the remaining 32 fights Ali lost 4.

    Of the remaining 28 fights Ali fought 10x against opponents LIGHTER than Eddie Chambers (Wladimir Klitschko's lightest opponent), thus today's fans would shout "they should move down to cruiserweight" and "it's proof of how the division sucks" or what a mismatch it is.

    Of the remaining 18 fights 2 wouldn't be allowed for medical reasons: Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye and Cleveland Williams was gunshot. Another proof of the "dire state of the division"

    Of the remaining 16 fights Ali couldn't KO his opponents in 10 fights (within 12 rounds) thus they would be "proof of how featherfisty Wlad is with a KO'ratio of 38%" and that "Marciano would KO this bum Wlad in 1 round"

    Of the remaining 6 fights 1 was a bum ·Charley Powell (25-11) which would be another proof for the "worst era in heavyweight boxing"

    Of the remaining 5 fights 2 were against guys coming off a loss (Ron Lyle, Alvin Lewis) and fans would accuse Wlad of "cherry-picking".

    Of the remaining 3 fights 2 were against a cruiser-bum beater (Sonny Liston) and fans would speculate about how the mob or Wladimir's radical Muslim friends have illegally influenced the outcome, since both endings (shoulder injury, phantom punch) were highly suspicious. Fans would complain that Sonny Liston didn't come to fight since he chickened out as soon as he saw fit.

    The remaining 1 fight was against an opponent who gassed in the heat and sultriness of the rain season in the rain forest (George Foreman) and fans would shout "Lame, nowadays heavies cannot go 15 rounds anymore like Joe Louis".

    That's approximately how Ali's record would be seen nowadays.

    There is an even simpler nutshell, that sums up even better the abysmal state of Ali's era:
    A guy with Parkinson's (Muhammad Ali) fighting against a 6-0 cruiser bum (Spinks, 197 lbs) for the unified heavyweight title…. and losing (and then avenging).

    THAT's all you need to know about The Golden Age of Heavyweight Boxing.
    Probably the lowest point in all heavyweight history!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    You can take anyones record and make out it is weak. To say the best decade of heavyweights was poor shows you an idiot.

    In one thread you start saying Adamek would beat Holyfield, Foreman and Holmes and then you say the 70's fighters are too small.

    Be consistent.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    1: You don't read so good. I never said once and in fact insisted many times that I think Holyfield would beat Adamek and I also stated the fact that they are the same size! Same goes for Holmes and I only offered I thought Adamek might be able to outpoint the old version of Foreman Holy fought but the prime one would beat him. BUSTED!

    2: You cannot do this to anybody's record because..

    (a) Modern HW boxers are not ALLOWED to pad their records against Cruiserweights like Ali and previous champs were allowed to and..

    (b) Modern HW boxers are heavily criticised by a more scrutinizing and in your face media should they stage fights against bums and losers like Ali and previous champs did.

    The opponents of Lewis and Klitschko's are not only heavier but have such better win/loss records, better KO ratio's to leave no doubt about the lack of quality of the era in question.

    Let's look at Ali's top 5 opponents...

    1/ George Foreman - Best win, comparable to modern opponent! But George fought like an absolute idiot and is almost as responsible for losing such an easy fight as Ali can be given credit for winning it!

    2/ Ron Lyle - decent opponent, good win, but Lyle was coming off a loss. Neither was he particularly skilled or anything special in terms of power or size today. (A little below average).

    3/ Joe Frazier - A chinny, featherfisted punch bag half blind dwarf who would not be allowed to box today and were he to cheat the medical could only hope to compete at CW.

    4/ Ken Norton - A glass jawed HW with a basically non-existent punch!

    5/ Earnie Shaver's - Hardly any wins against good opponents, struggled against bums, a threat only to CW's and bums or both and who's overrated power was immense against CW sized opponents but which against modern sized athletes amounts to a KO ratio in the neighbourhood of Chris Byrd's!

    6/ Sonny Liston - A notorious CRuiser cruncher, bum beater and loser luncher that never once beat a single opponent that did not fall into atleast one of those categories. His cherry picking only rivalled by Butterbean and LaMar Clarke and who was so slow and uncoordinated he was lucky he faced such poor quality opponents to be able to connect!

    This myth is busted... BUSTED!
    Last edited by Max Power; 12-01-2013 at 11:20 AM.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Who are you talking about as modern heavyweights? Outside K2 they are all shit and none have wins comparable to Alis

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    I agree with you to a small extent, in that I think that people look on that era with rose colored glasses and and really over rate that period in time. So called boxing experts love to rave on how this was the be all, end all era for heavyweights, and any subseqent HW champ would have been average at best if placed in Ali's era. Which of course is just silly.

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    You can only be as good as your era , I don't think clay would have been dominant if he was giving so much size away , but different era's in HW boxing with no limit to how heavy you can be means its a huge difference to say - Ray Robinson fighting now , as he would be fighting guys the same size weight etc.
    Remember reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol .

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    I usually don't give reputation comments. But when I do, it has to be, either, EXTREMELY good. Or, it has to be dreadfully awful to the point where I wanted to puke in my mouth and then swallow.

    I'd let the folks decide what I did to this post with regard to reputation.
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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    Yes, I am convinced that Povetkin, Haye and Wach would have Ali converting back to Christianity When you face all comers, some repeatedly in an era, that's respectable. You can't pick the one you're born in. That's kook logic.

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    So much is mentioned about weight.

    How about speed, reflexes, timing and heart?

    The klits rule this era (after lennox) and outweigh pretty much everyone.

    But now we have hindsight, to disrespect fighters like ali, frazier and foreman who fought 15 rounds on less pay is a bit silly.

    Im NOT saying they were the best heavyweights of all time but i am saying that the same question could be asked if ali or liston called out the competition in the klits era.

    I am more interested in the current era that is emerging now with wilder, fury etc and to see how well they do.

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    MaxPower is a great typist. He can string sentences together in a way that makes him seem intelligent. He's probably been told his whole life how smart he is. He's probably, unknowingly, surrounded himself with people who praise him for his intellect and debating skills... But his rabid-like pursuit of this singular and deeply flawed argument: "Old heavyweight fighters aren't as good as contemporary heavyweight fighters" exposes him as a simple minded troll who is starved for attention rather than someone who is interested in an objective discussion of heavyweight boxing and its history.

    How many threads is he gonna start on the same subject?

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    Max Power is a Cunt on a wind up mission, same as Ross, he just wants a rise out of people

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    I gotta ask this, is Max Power a troll? Because if you are sir, bravo.
    Excuse my spelling Hidden Content

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    Forget about comparing individuals of different eras in boxing. Concentrate on the quality of the matches. In no sport can you compare individuals from different eras, or teams for that matter. Can you compare today's Miami Heat against Bill Russell's Celtics of years past? No. Lebron James is twice as big and fast as any of those players from the Celtics. Likewise with American football. Linemen who now weigh a mere 275 pounds are considered too small to play in the NFL. It used to be they were huge at that weight.

    Compare the quality of the matches. How many Ali-Fraziers have we had in recent years? How many Holmes-Nortons? How many Lewis-Vitalis? Tyson-Douglases? Zero. We have been deprived of exciting, quality, competitive HW matches for years..... seems like decades. This is what is actually killing interest in the division.

    Of course fighters nowadays are bigger. Evolution. Bill Russell was 6'-9" when he played. He towered above everyone else and was a premier shot blocker. Nowadays, he'd be the size of a power forward, with little of the strength, speed, or agility needed at the position.

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    Default Re: What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

    A few quick points... I don't hate Ali, in fact I'm sure he would be competitive in any era including the modern ones, wherever you take that to begin. But just to be sure this was not MY agenda targeted with this thread is was intended as a poke at the agenda of a large proportion of the boxing world who are polarised for whatever reason to the notion that these old guys would walk through the division as if it were nothing.

    If you want to say the fights are boring today and you think the "golden age" had more depth in that sense then that is fine. I can certainly see your point. I hate the fact the fights are in Germany, I like the atmosphere in America, and I think Wladimir's fights and Vitali's recent fights are bore-fests, even a disgrace (Povetkin). But don't say they would stop any fighter not named Klitschko because that's simply not true, they would find themselves in deep water.

    A guy commented on the weights, sure the gap is more pronounced in the HW division as there is no weight limit, guys like Ray Robinson would be on a more level playing field, I accept that. But it is what it is, in the HW division you are allowed to expressly outsize your opponent.

    @ruthless rocco Your smart ass comment raised another important thing to consider, you wrote that the Klitschko's out size their opponents as opposed to Ali.

    Well I hate to tell you that over whole career, Wladimir outweighs his opponents in only 50% of his fights! His average opponent being the same as himself and his median being 235lbs, bigger than virtually any of Ali's and 15lbs bigger than Foreman!

    As for Ali, he in fact outweighed his opponents in a whopping 70% of his fights! Further more he out-talled the majority of them. For all the praise of his speed and footwork, were it not for his weight and range advantage over his opponents these other attributes may not have been as prevalent. Quarry did not enjoy similar success for instance. So it was in fact Ali who outsized most of his opponents, not Klitschko's!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    A few quick points... I don't hate Ali, in fact I'm sure he would be competitive in any era including the modern ones, wherever you take that to begin. But just to be sure this was not MY agenda targeted with this thread is was intended as a poke at the agenda of a large proportion of the boxing world who are polarised for whatever reason to the notion that these old guys would walk through the division as if it were nothing.

    If you want to say the fights are boring today and you think the "golden age" had more depth in that sense then that is fine. I can certainly see your point. I hate the fact the fights are in Germany, I like the atmosphere in America, and I think Wladimir's fights and Vitali's recent fights are bore-fests, even a disgrace (Povetkin). But don't say they would stop any fighter not named Klitschko because that's simply not true, they would find themselves in deep water.

    A guy commented on the weights, sure the gap is more pronounced in the HW division as there is no weight limit, guys like Ray Robinson would be on a more level playing field, I accept that. But it is what it is, in the HW division you are allowed to expressly outsize your opponent.

    @ruthless rocco Your smart ass comment raised another important thing to consider, you wrote that the Klitschko's out size their opponents as opposed to Ali.

    Well I hate to tell you that over whole career, Wladimir outweighs his opponents in only 50% of his fights! His average opponent being the same as himself and his median being 235lbs, bigger than virtually any of Ali's and 15lbs bigger than Foreman!

    As for Ali, he in fact outweighed his opponents in a whopping 70% of his fights! Further more he out-talled the majority of them. For all the praise of his speed and footwork, were it not for his weight and range advantage over his opponents these other attributes may not have been as prevalent. Quarry did not enjoy similar success for instance. So it was in fact Ali who outsized most of his opponents, not Klitschko's!
    @Max Power when and where did I say that stuff about the Klitchkos? I think you're confused. Again.

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