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Thread: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    I have little faith in Haye beating the best in different eras when he won't even compete in his own. Seriously...Haye would have found beating Holyfield much easier Come on man. Really.
    I think Haye and Holyfield would have been a terrific match up as well. And yeah if Moorer can beat him, why not Haye who could bust Moorers ass into next week.

    Bloody look at Haye man, he is an excellent boxer. He's just injury prone, inactive and wants the fast road only. Shame on him there but.'

    Holy has the chin but Haye has the punch. Haye is faster and longer and far slicker than Holyfield. Haye barely gets hit. Holyfield is a bit of a punch bag.

    It's Holyfield's toughness and determination that makes him a difficult opponent for Haye, not his skills. I rate Holyfield higher obviously though because he did more.
    I'd pay the price alone just to see Haye attempt to stay in close and swap combinations with Holyfiled in a hypothetical . Holyfield was a better boxer than giving credit for though stubborn as a mule. I'd take him 7 days of the week to track Haye down, when the legs get wide and Haye is sucking wind a bit and touch him like he has never come close to being touched with combination punching. Haye also brought his ballyhooed power in with a guy said to have a weak chin and lack of fire in Wlad and did very little to nothing with it except look for singles and wait around. He really blew it. Holy would match his speed and power as it went and just be the much bigger storm.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    I don't know how anyone can say this era is good after Thompson-Solis.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    I have little faith in Haye beating the best in different eras when he won't even compete in his own. Seriously...Haye would have found beating Holyfield much easier Come on man. Really.
    I think Haye and Holyfield would have been a terrific match up as well. And yeah if Moorer can beat him, why not Haye who could bust Moorers ass into next week.

    Bloody look at Haye man, he is an excellent boxer. He's just injury prone, inactive and wants the fast road only. Shame on him there but.'

    Holy has the chin but Haye has the punch. Haye is faster and longer and far slicker than Holyfield. Haye barely gets hit. Holyfield is a bit of a punch bag.

    It's Holyfield's toughness and determination that makes him a difficult opponent for Haye, not his skills. I rate Holyfield higher obviously though because he did more.
    I'd pay the price alone just to see Haye attempt to stay in close and swap combinations with Holyfiled in a hypothetical . Holyfield was a better boxer than giving credit for though stubborn as a mule. I'd take him 7 days of the week to track Haye down, when the legs get wide and Haye is sucking wind a bit and touch him like he has never come close to being touched with combination punching. Haye also brought his ballyhooed power in with a guy said to have a weak chin and lack of fire in Wlad and did very little to nothing with it except look for singles and wait around. He really blew it. Holy would match his speed and power as it went and just be the much bigger storm.
    From the start I'm not insisting Haye beats Holyfield. I am just saying they are rather evenly matched. Holyfield struggled with opponents much lesser than Haye.

    That's just the thing, Haye does NOT stay in close and swap combinations, that isn't his style, Haye is not an idiot. I didn't see Holyfield ever beat down anybody like that who was close to David Haye in slickness.

    Yeah on the other hand Holyfield wasted Mike Tyson and that can't be dismissed either, but there is still controversy over whether or not Holyfield could have done that to prime Mike Tyson isn't there (you know, the guy with the impenetrable defence).

    The problem with your Wladimir Klitschko analogy is that this is Wladimir friggin Klitschko, possibly the best HW of all time, or if not top 3 who barely gets hit, barely loses a round, could have KO'd Haye with 1 clean punch and had a massive range advantage over Haye and by the way has a chin not anywhere NEAR as weak as guys try to pretend he does.

    Furthermore Holyfield is something of a HW featherfist (he was not a hard puncher compared to the general competition) whereas Haye has definite power at HW. Holy's HW KO's are via accumulation and fatigue mainly.

    Also Holyfield was never anywhere near as fast or as slick as Haye at any respective stage of their careers, that statement was completely baseless. In fact Haye is among the fastest HW boxers and probably CW's... Of all time!
    Last edited by Max Power; 03-23-2014 at 01:23 AM.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    I have little faith in Haye beating the best in different eras when he won't even compete in his own. Seriously...Haye would have found beating Holyfield much easier Come on man. Really.
    I think Haye and Holyfield would have been a terrific match up as well. And yeah if Moorer can beat him, why not Haye who could bust Moorers ass into next week.

    Bloody look at Haye man, he is an excellent boxer. He's just injury prone, inactive and wants the fast road only. Shame on him there but.'

    Holy has the chin but Haye has the punch. Haye is faster and longer and far slicker than Holyfield. Haye barely gets hit. Holyfield is a bit of a punch bag.

    It's Holyfield's toughness and determination that makes him a difficult opponent for Haye, not his skills. I rate Holyfield higher obviously though because he did more.
    I'd pay the price alone just to see Haye attempt to stay in close and swap combinations with Holyfiled in a hypothetical . Holyfield was a better boxer than giving credit for though stubborn as a mule. I'd take him 7 days of the week to track Haye down, when the legs get wide and Haye is sucking wind a bit and touch him like he has never come close to being touched with combination punching. Haye also brought his ballyhooed power in with a guy said to have a weak chin and lack of fire in Wlad and did very little to nothing with it except look for singles and wait around. He really blew it. Holy would match his speed and power as it went and just be the much bigger storm.
    From the start I'm not insisting Haye beats Holyfield. I am just saying they are rather evenly matched. Holyfield struggled with opponents much lesser than Haye.

    That's just the thing, Haye does NOT stay in close and swap combinations, that isn't his style, Haye is not an idiot. I didn't see Holyfield ever beat down anybody like that who was close to David Haye in slickness.

    Yeah on the other hand Holyfield wasted Mike Tyson and that can't be dismissed either, but there is still controversy over whether or not Holyfield could have done that to prime Mike Tyson isn't there (you know, the guy with the impenetrable defence).

    The problem with your Wladimir Klitschko analogy is that this is Wladimir friggin Klitschko, possibly the best HW of all time, or if not top 3 who barely gets hit, barely loses a round, could have KO'd Haye with 1 clean punch and had a massive range advantage over Haye and by the way has a chin not anywhere NEAR as weak as guys try to pretend he does.

    Furthermore Holyfield is something of a HW featherfist (he was not a hard puncher compared to the general competition) whereas Haye has definite power at HW. Holy's HW KO's are via accumulation and fatigue mainly.

    Also Holyfield was never anywhere near as fast or as slick as Haye at any respective stage of their careers, that statement was completely baseless. In fact Haye is among the fastest HW boxers and probably CW's... Of all time!
    Haye efforted 6 fights in a total of 6 yrs at heavyweight. Not exactly comparitive to Holyfields 'struggles' when on top or twice as many fights in equal time. I have no doubt that a decent version of Cooper could have rocked a Haye, a Moorer would have snapped his head with a southpaw jab, or a granddaddy Holmes cut him with an elbow and be rather frustrating. Etc etc. What I have to go on is being snuck by Monte Barret, a majority win over Valuev, the same escaped circus oddity a 1001 yr old Holyfield arguably deserved the nod over just prior and a no show with Wlad after talking himself up in Broner fashion when the chips were down.

    Staying in close would not be left as an option, thats the key to tracking down movers looking for showy shots. Being slick and being a combination puncher with speed of hand are two different animals. Haye concentrates as much on getting out as he does getting off and has never come close to the volume or power Holyfiled puts on him. Haye would have been sucked in.

    Yep, Holyfield wasted Mike Tyson. Took the best version available when people said he was literally "a walking dead man" and beat him like a drum. 90, 91 of course are speculative as with any fight after a player pulls out. Would Haye have beat Fury like a drum..who knows. Maybe he'll get his shot at that glory yet.

    I actually like Wlad. He has improved. But Hayes tunnel vision and lack of game plan was pretty predictable. When you start making T shirts and again making a "glass jaw" the lone focus because of your 'Hayemaker' you know there is no plan B. Haye was tamed in that fight and he settled.

    Holyfield was not a feathefist. Come on. Again...Where and when was Hayes 'definite' power at heavyweight? This is being overblown currently with a Wilder and again, who? Power is only as good as who you are putting in on. Holyfields left hook hurt nearly all the major players he faced and was a tremendous combination puncher. You have to take accumulation and breaking a guy down over leaving it in your pocket when it matters the most, surely.

    Holyfield was just as fast of hand as Haye. True story. Maybe not as 'slick' or shifty, even herky jerky as I never actually said that but had quality speed on that left and straight right.

    Haye -is- entertaining and frankly I used 'shot in the divisions arm' a few years ago, it needed turned on its head and Haye arrived at the party but all he has done is hang out in the kitchen and talk. Politics, injury, drama, whatever...less talk, more walk. Its passing him by at a rapid pace.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Holyfeild was the real deal at hw his lose to Bowe in the in there last fight and moorer were when he was having some really bad health problems. Lewis may have beaten Holyfeild but if a 37 year ould Holyfeild can give him a run for his money i am sure the 90's version that beat bowe could of. Holyfeild was pretty war worn by the time he got to Lewis and most his loses came when he 40 and Hayes best win Hw you could say a 48 year Holyfeild did just as good of job as he did i am just saying Holyfeild was the real deal for a reason my friend.
    Last edited by Mr140; 03-23-2014 at 10:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    I think my point was in America Haye is not given enough credit. I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming of Joe Louis. Just saying he gets no respect. I point to the chisora fight. Vitali didn't KO him. Fury didn't KO him. Haye kicked his ass. Mainly because of his speed and power. I was pointing to the night Michael Moorer beat Evander that Haye on that night would have beat him worst. That's all I'm saying. The man gets no respect. Getting back to the topic. We can't judge any era based on one or two fighters. I'm saying from top to bottom this era is very weak. Way is that? The gyms in the inter-city are gone. Every city had them. They are tons of gyms but no boxing rings. They take up too much space. It was a way out for many poor kids. Now there's the NBA,MLB,NFL where young kids can make quick money without getting there ass kicked. Plus there's no laws to protect fighters from promoters from stealing there money. Pro sports have unions who protects them. Mike Tyson said Don King would charge him 8,000 dollars for towels. If he did that in other sports he would be in prison. Wlad and Vitali and other fighters came from the USSR that had a outstanding boxing program.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Haye decided that he was not good enough to do it the Holyfield way which was work his way to the top. Instead he created noise to get attention, made strategic choice of oppositions which paid off and cashed out. Holyfield worked his way to a shot, Haye with all his talent did not. The fact that the division is so weak illustrates that if Haye came back he could get another shot at the title within one fight.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    I have already stated Holyfield rates higher than Haye, Haye's short innings at HW versus Holyfields extensive career there is obvious.

    Holyfields HW record though is 26-10, double digit losses!!

    Haye was undefeated except for the loss to Wladimir Klitschko, that's as excusable as Holyfields loss to Lennox Lewis.

    In reality, David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko was a fight about as evenly contested as Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis. Haye could have won a couple extra rounds than is given credit for and made Wladimir miss all night (25% connect for Wlad, the lowest of any fight for him, a guy reknowned for his punch accuracy!) Wlad won the fight on workrate! Because Haye did not take enough risks necessary to win but yet also guarded him from being KO'd himself. Look at the tremendous height, weight and HW experience advantage Wladimir had over Haye.

    As for Haye's expected performance against Holyfield's opponents though I find that abslutely laughable. Bert Cooper? LOL Haye would destroy Cooper, and KO old Larry Holmes and UD Foreman without barely getting hit. If your trying to say that Haye loses to the majority of the 90's fighters you are being naive beyond belief.

    You do realise even though he has not amassed a sizable HW record, he was a champion CW fighter, among the greatest, in fact funny enough, 2nd only to Evander Holyfield himself!! Although not the same as real HW experience in power and resistance or range, it is still the same sport!

    Haye's own opponents? Haye smashed the living shit out of Barrett who was just as good as Bert Cooper and didn't Cooper drop Holy and almost KO him?? Haye did manage to defeat a 7 foot tall 320lb giant, that Holy could have done it too when he was prime I'm not disputing but that's not proof, only 1 other guy ever managed to do it, Ruslan Chagaev, another champion boxer.

    Bert Cooper and Dereck Chisora were also fairly comparable do you agree yes or no? What happened when Haye fought Chisora? To take on a guy with chin like that and whack them out as if they were nothing, that's power. Holy wasn't even whacking guys around like that in the Cruisers!!

    Just some perspective.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Your perspective is as usual rubbish. Haye would not stop Holmes, foreman may have wasted Haye with a jab.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Every shot was on target with power. I don't think Chisora even landed a punch in that round. Keep in mind Chisora has a damn good chin.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Haye Lost to fucking Thompson when he was cw which kinda sad consider he was 40. Haye best win you could say Holyfeild beat at 48 and most of Holyfields loses are after he was 40.I don't think Haye won a round against Wald and Wald not even close to a Lennox Lewis. Haye best win are pretty much lacking and he lost to the guys who one was a good champ and lost ever round the other a old vet who knocked him out so i don't understand your logic on how great he is and why he is mentioned with Holyfeild.
    Last edited by Mr140; 03-23-2014 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Your perspective is as usual rubbish. Haye would not stop Holmes, foreman may have wasted Haye with a jab.
    Yes, a young primer Holmes was 2ce removed by Michael friggin Spinks, a guy an inch or 2 shorter and 15 lbs lighter than Haye with all the power of a leaf blower and still not the slickness, struggled and gifted against heaps of his contempories. LAter a fatter and older but more experienced and smarter version manages to out land a plodder in Ray Mercer. Suddenly he can withstand David Haye!

    George Foreman was 2ce beaten by 2 of the biggest featherfists to ever participate in HW boxing, Muhammad Ali and Jimmy Young when prime but the old slow version would KO Haye with a jab?

    Wanna see what would happen there, see Foreman vs Morrison!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    Haye Lost to fucking Thompson when he was cw which kinda sad consider he was 40. Haye best win you could say Holyfeild beat at 48 and most of Holyfields loses are after he was 40.I don't think Haye won a round against Wald and Wald not even close to a Lennox Lewis. Haye best win are pretty much lacking and he lost to the guys who one was a good champ and lost ever round the other a old vet who knocked him out so i don't understand your logic on how great he is and why he is mentioned with Holyfeild.
    Nice one mate, so now your scratching you bring up Haye's only loss entire career.

    Except the correct perspective there should read.. "10 fight GREEN David Haye loses by punchers chance to ageing but EXPERIENCED VETERAN Thompson, never to be defeated or seriously challeneged again until Wladimir Klitschko.

    Who is to say Haye's opponents are shit. What makes big Audley Harrison a shitter opponent than say Vaugn Bean who push Holyfield? Audley isn't even that bad and Haye murdered him.

    Lewis and Wlad are imo also fairly comparable. A fool would disagree there!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    Haye Lost to fucking Thompson when he was cw which kinda sad consider he was 40. Haye best win you could say Holyfeild beat at 48 and most of Holyfields loses are after he was 40.I don't think Haye won a round against Wald and Wald not even close to a Lennox Lewis. Haye best win are pretty much lacking and he lost to the guys who one was a good champ and lost ever round the other a old vet who knocked him out so i don't understand your logic on how great he is and why he is mentioned with Holyfeild.
    Nice one mate, so now your scratching you bring up Haye's only loss entire career.

    Except the correct perspective there should read.. "10 fight GREEN David Haye loses by punchers chance to ageing but EXPERIENCED VETERAN Thompson, never to be defeated or seriously challeneged again until Wladimir Klitschko.

    Who is to say Haye's opponents are shit. What makes big Audley Harrison a shitter opponent than say Vaugn Bean who push Holyfield? Audley isn't even that bad and Haye murdered him.

    Lewis and Wlad are imo also fairly comparable. A fool would disagree there!
    @maxpower -- You are so stupid and so wrong!

    You couldn't even figure out how to join the prediction contest.

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    Default Re: Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbig1 View Post
    Every shot was on target with power. I don't think Chisora even landed a punch in that round. Keep in mind Chisora has a damn good chin.
    All should pay attention to the commentary...

    "Blurring speed"

    "Tremendous hook"

    "Excellent finisher"

    "One of the best chins in the business"

    !!!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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