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Thread: If Floyd never fights Manny...

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  1. #61
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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Why cant ggg step up and face ward.?

    Always an excuse.
    @imp - this isn't the point of the thread, but I agree with you to an extent. I said last year if GGG cleaned out the division, he should move up because there wouldn't be anything left for him to do at middleweight. Frankly, after Rubio I'm not sure there is anyone else really left at 160 for him to fight. I know he wants Canelo/Cotto, but he isn't going to get them in the same city, let alone a ring. He should move up. Froch or Ward would be great. I wouldn't fault him for either.

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Muhammid Ali
    HAHA....(You didn't even spell his name right.)
    Actually Rocco, it's an Arabic word spelled in English, so there is no right or wrong. Al Qaeda is another example. Bin Laden is another. Every time you post I lose a little more respect for you.

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Muhammid Ali
    HAHA....(You didn't even spell his name right.)
    Actually Rocco, it's an Arabic word spelled in English, so there is no right or wrong. Al Qaeda is another example. Bin Laden is another. Every time you post I lose a little more respect for you.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    If I suggested Floyd owed fans a move to 160, I was wrong. Floyd doesn't owe fans anything. That is in line with me saying that Floyd doesn't need to do anything. His legacy is secure for what it is. Same with all the greats of our era.

    I never hold it against a fighter for not moving up. If they can make weight in safe fashion, they probably belong at that weight class. Moving up in that kind of situation only can improve a legacy, it can't hurt it. If GGG went up to 168 and was squashed by Froch or Ward, and moved back down to 160, I wouldn't hold it against him, but if he beat Froch or Ward, I would value it higher than beating a top guy at middleweight. At a certain point though, when the division is cleaned out, and no challenging fight can be made at their weight class, it makes sense from a legacy perspective to move up.

    Let's consider Cotto. Cotto is no bigger than Floyd. Cotto went up to middleweight and beat Martinez. Cotto did something Floyd hasn't done. The desire to challenge himself at 160 against the middleweight champion of the world even though he didn't have to do it is something that greatly improves his legacy. Boxing fans wanted Cotto to face Martinez and Cotto showed it wasn't too much to ask. To prove that, he took the challenge.

    I can only imagine how much you didn't want Cotto to face Martinez. Martinez was too big for him. He was too fast for him. 160 isn't Cotto's natural weight class.

    My point was that the weight difference with GGG/Martinez (in the past) with Floyd's other opponents is actually about 5 pounds. 5 pounds is a lot in boxing but it isn't insurmountable for a fighter of Floyd's ability. As evidence, it wasn't insurmountable for Cotto, a guy who Floyd beat.

    Also, who are you so excited to see Floyd face at 147-154? Are you really excited about Shawn Porter? I like the guy, but Kell Brook took him to school, and let's be honest, if Brook can do it, can't Floyd?
    Some thoughts on your Floyd/Cotto vs Golovkin/Martinez theory.

    Floyd started at 130LBS. Cotto at 140LBs. Cotto is naturally bigger.

    Martinez had well documented knee, ankle and broken hand issues going back to 2012. He looked lack lustre in many of his most recent fights. Barker, Macklin & Murray all gave him trouble. He was clearly a fighter on the decline.

    In a Floyd vs GGG scenario it's Floyd that is moving up in weight and it's Floyd that's clearly the fighter whose abilities are declining. Are you able to see the difference?

    Floyd's style of fighting involves speed, dexterity, movement and sharpness. Cotto's style is more rugged and depends on taking damage to inflict damage. He's used to getting hit in order to put hurt on people. Taking on a fighter like Martinez who had lost his mobility and power because of knee and ankle injuries and broken hands surgeries is not the same thing as an older, slower, less agile and less powerful Mayweather taking on a much bigger, more powerful younger GGG.

    Do you see the differences?


    Also, I'd like to mention that I chose Cotto to KO Martinez in the Saddo's prediction contest.
    Last edited by ruthless rocco; 10-09-2014 at 05:36 AM.

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Looks like Floyd now has 2 potential champions as candidates to fight for titles at MW! HAhahaha!

    But wait. Let me guess. He beat Cotto before so it doesn't count. Taylor was only ranked 15th by the IBF so no credit for that win. RIGHT??!!!
    Last edited by ruthless rocco; 10-09-2014 at 06:44 AM.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    If I suggested Floyd owed fans a move to 160, I was wrong. Floyd doesn't owe fans anything. That is in line with me saying that Floyd doesn't need to do anything. His legacy is secure for what it is. Same with all the greats of our era.

    I never hold it against a fighter for not moving up. If they can make weight in safe fashion, they probably belong at that weight class. Moving up in that kind of situation only can improve a legacy, it can't hurt it. If GGG went up to 168 and was squashed by Froch or Ward, and moved back down to 160, I wouldn't hold it against him, but if he beat Froch or Ward, I would value it higher than beating a top guy at middleweight. At a certain point though, when the division is cleaned out, and no challenging fight can be made at their weight class, it makes sense from a legacy perspective to move up.

    Let's consider Cotto. Cotto is no bigger than Floyd. Cotto went up to middleweight and beat Martinez. Cotto did something Floyd hasn't done. The desire to challenge himself at 160 against the middleweight champion of the world even though he didn't have to do it is something that greatly improves his legacy. Boxing fans wanted Cotto to face Martinez and Cotto showed it wasn't too much to ask. To prove that, he took the challenge.

    I can only imagine how much you didn't want Cotto to face Martinez. Martinez was too big for him. He was too fast for him. 160 isn't Cotto's natural weight class.

    My point was that the weight difference with GGG/Martinez (in the past) with Floyd's other opponents is actually about 5 pounds. 5 pounds is a lot in boxing but it isn't insurmountable for a fighter of Floyd's ability. As evidence, it wasn't insurmountable for Cotto, a guy who Floyd beat.

    Also, who are you so excited to see Floyd face at 147-154? Are you really excited about Shawn Porter? I like the guy, but Kell Brook took him to school, and let's be honest, if Brook can do it, can't Floyd?
    Some thoughts on your Floyd/Cotto vs Golovkin/Martinez theory.

    Floyd started at 130LBS. Cotto at 140LBs. Cotto is naturally bigger.

    Martinez had well documented knee, ankle and broken hand issues going back to 2012. He looked lack lustre in many of his most recent fights. Barker, Macklin & Murray all gave him trouble. He was clearly a fighter on the decline.

    In a Floyd vs GGG scenario it's Floyd that is moving up in weight and it's Floyd that's clearly the fighter whose abilities are declining. Are you able to see the difference?

    Floyd's style of fighting involves speed, dexterity, movement and sharpness. Cotto's style is more rugged and depends on taking damage to inflict damage. He's used to getting hit in order to put hurt on people. Taking on a fighter like Martinez who had lost his mobility and power because of knee and ankle injuries and broken hands surgeries is not the same thing as an older, slower, less agile and less powerful Mayweather taking on a much bigger, more powerful younger GGG.

    Do you see the differences?


    Also, I'd like to mention that I chose Cotto to KO Martinez in the Saddo's prediction contest.
    What does style have to do with moving up to capture another lineal title?

    It's not just GGG. Why didn't Floyd face Martinez? Cotto did. In fact, many more people asked for Floyd to face Martinez than they are for him to face GGG and people have called for Floyd to fight Martinez for the last 4 years. Martinez himself asked for the Floyd fight many, many times. To Martinez, Cotto was just a consolation prize because he wanted Floyd. Floyd wouldn't take the fight. It's documented. Floyd Sr. said he's too big. He wasn't too big for Cotto.

    Why didn't Floyd fight Martinez when Cotto fought Martinez?

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zhubin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!

    Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?

    @ fan johnny @Rantcatrat @mikeeod
    What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.

    Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a boxing fan.
    No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.

    Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.

    Answer my one little question. Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
    I hate to even respond to you Rocco, because I'm convinced that you are a troll and a jack ass. Where your thinking is flawed, is we don't want to see Floyd lose, we want to see him WIN. When I watch Floyd fight GGG, it isn't to see Floyd get his head knocked off, it's to watch him put on a masterpiece and confirm that he is as great as I think he is. Floyd vs Ward, or Wlad, or Hop are unrealistic and unfair. Floyd fighting GGG at 154? That's about as fair of a fight as you can get, and even if Floyd loses,naw long as he put on a good performance, he won't lose stature in anyone's eyes.

    Who has accomplished more?!? Henry Armstrong held 3 world championships simultaneously when there were only 8 weight classes and one champ per weight. Sugar Ray Robinson beat numerous prime ATG and HOF fighters, and won in spectacular fashion. Muhammad Ali transcended the sport and beat the greatest set of challengers the heavyweight division has ever produced. I can go on but you get the picture.

    Here is what you guys do: you go to the extreme when other knowledgable fans state Floyd's greatness, but font go overboard and buy the bs that he is the greatest. For Floyd not to make the Manny fight is unforgivable. That act alone keeps him out of my top 20 ATG. Oscar fought Sweet Pea, Prime Mosely, Prime Hop, Prime Tito, Prime Quartey, undefeated Miguel Gonzalez, 1 loss Vargas...etc. Mosely fought prime Oscar, Prime Floyd, a Prime Forrest, Prime Winky, Prime Cotto...etc. Hop fought Prime a Roy,Prime Tito, Prime Pavilik, Prime Tarver, Prime Winky, Prime Joe C., Prime Dawson, Prime Pascal, Prime Kovalev. All of those guys fought their biggest threats (identified by fans n media) even though those other guys had rival promoters and networks. They made those fights and sought out the biggest challenges to prove their greatness. It's what great fighters do. Floyd did that prior to JLC and I haven't seen him do it since...
    You make it sound like GGG deserves the fight?! GGG has fought a bunch of B level fighters and is hardly a household name. Yet you want a Floyd to fight him at a weight that is hardly ideal for either fighter. Get the hell out of here. You are a hater. Even if Floyd fought him and beat him...haters like you will use excuses like "GGG was weight drained", etc.
    You make no sense in your argument. You say GGG hasn't beaten anyone and isn't deserving to fight Floyd, yet throw out excuses as to why Floyd would lose. Also, why would I say that I would like to see Floyd fight GGG and the win would be impressive and then make up reasons to diminish it? That is pretty pointless. Also, how am I a hater if I constantly praise Floyd's greatness and skill in the ring? Do you feel that by closing your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and calling me a hater it somehow cancels out all of the valid points I've made?
    I never said i thought Floyd would lose! This fight would NEVER happen at 160...and rightfully so. So if they fought at a catch weight or 154 and Mayweather won...Floyd haters already have the built in excuse that he fought a weight drained fighter. You are also making it seem like fighting and beating GGG is something the public is clamoring for...when in fact GGG is hardly a big name...not to mention that his resume hardly warrants a fight against the biggest name in boxing.

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    What does style have to do with moving up to capture another lineal title?

    It's not just GGG. Why didn't Floyd face Martinez? Cotto did. In fact, many more people asked for Floyd to face Martinez than they are for him to face GGG and people have called for Floyd to fight Martinez for the last 4 years. Martinez himself asked for the Floyd fight many, many times. To Martinez, Cotto was just a consolation prize because he wanted Floyd. Floyd wouldn't take the fight. It's documented. Floyd Sr. said he's too big. He wasn't too big for Cotto.

    Why didn't Floyd fight Martinez when Cotto fought Martinez?
    As I said in my previous post which I assume you simply didn't understand:

    Cotto is a naturally bigger fighter who is younger than Floyd. He is accustomed to fighting like a tank and taking punishment to give punishment. His style and temperament are suited to getting hit a lot to land a lot.
    Floyd is a more refined fighter whose assets are his speed his movement his agility his dexterity and his power(at lower weight classes). Floyd is at an age where he is not able to move up in weight and bring his entire skill set with him. Floyd is aware of his physical limits. He knows that he is slowing down, becoming less agile, that his legs don't respond as quickly, that the power he possessed at lighter weights isn't as effective in higher weight divisions. He knows that he cannot bulk up anymore than he has and still be effective at a higher weight. This means fighting fighters that are a lot bigger than him is out of the question. Being aware of your body in the ring outside the ring knowing your abilities and limits, when to take a risk and when to be reserved and focused are traits that champions posses.

    That's what styles have to do with it. It's a very simple concept. I'm not sure why you can't grasp it.
    Last edited by ruthless rocco; 10-09-2014 at 11:48 PM.

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    Floyd fights cotto at his weight and beats him and theres an excuse.

    Cotto beats a one legged martinez and theres no excuse.

    What is it with boxing fans defending bigger guys picking on little guys rather than fighting their own weight and higher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Floyd fights cotto at his weight and beats him and theres an excuse.

    Cotto beats a one legged martinez and theres no excuse.

    What is it with boxing fans defending bigger guys picking on little guys rather than fighting their own weight and higher.
    I disagree with your statement. Cotto is damaged goods and I think most on this forum agree that Cotto was in the right place, at the right time to become mw champ. I have seen numerous posters correctly state that Cotto isn't the best or most daunting MW right now and that GGG and Quillin are superior at that weight.

    If Canelo, Quillin, Mayweather or GGG fight Cotto, there will be a new champ for that weight. Most on here, if not all, correctly admire Cotto's desire to fight the best and seek the biggest challenges. Another poster was spot on in saying that Martinez was begging to fight Floyd for years and took Cotto as a consolation. As impressed as I was with Cotto for chasing that fight and as daunting as it appeared to be prior to the first bell, you would have to be blind to not recognize how Sergio's knee hampered his style in the ring.

    I would like to see Floyd consistently challenge himself and make a statement by beating the biggest challenge (realistically, not Wlad...etc.) available. Some of the fights weren't Floyd's fault as he did pursue Mosely while Shane was closer to his prime...etc. I still would've lived to have seen Floyd swallow a little ego and fight Kostya, Bradley, Paul Williams, Winky (they were negotiating and had pretty much reached a deal at one point), Sergio Martinez and of course Manny. He never fought them for various reasons but guys in the pantheon like Robinson, Duran, Leonard...etc., would have found a way to make those big fights happen. At least some of them.

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    If floyd never fought canelo everyone would be saying he is ducking him.

    Be honest.

    Floyd is old and still fighting the best out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    If floyd never fought canelo everyone would be saying he is ducking him.

    Be honest.

    Floyd is old and still fighting the best out there.
    I think I put Floyd's win over Canelo in proper perspective. It was a good win, and Canelo is younger and larger. I also knew that Floyd would win that pretty easy due to Canelo being one dimensional and relatively inexperienced at that elite level. Still was a good performance.

    I also tend to give Floyd more credit than most for his wins over Judah and Baldomir. Judah is awkward and talented and I thought Floyd looked great setting traps and adjusting as the fight went on in that one. Baldy was hitting his stride and was a much bigger man who had developed solid skills. They weren't great wins, but they were better than most give credit for.

    I was not impressed with the Cotto win and I wouldn't be impressed if he beat him again. Cotto just isn't what he was in his prime. He has slipped. Floyd's wins over Mosely, Oscar, Sharmba Mitchell and Cotto were diminished in my eyes as those men were not anywhere near their primes at the time.

    Young Floyd had the mentality of a great fighter. He had that desire to "slay the dragon" and beat the toughest challenge out there. He CHASED Chico. He DEMANDED that fight to prove his greatness. Same with Castillo. He jumped up with no tune ups and took on the true champ who was hitting his stride and cleaning out the division. Floyd has fought solid competition since then, no doubt. He hasn't strived to prove his greatness and make the really big fights like he used to either, and that is what fans are unhappy about. It isn't hating. It's just being honest and stating why a fighter isn't as great in your personal opinion.

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...

    Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?

    Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)


    @mikeeod @Rantcatrat @imp @zhubin
    @anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...

    Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?

    Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)


    @mikeeod @Rantcatrat @imp @zhubin
    @anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer
    Ah, Rocco, my favorite little window licker. I've already stated numerous times who I would've liked to have seen Floyd fight. The tears must blur your vision or something. Right now, there isn't a fighter 154 and down who would give Floyd a great challenge. Manny is still good, but is the smaller man and not the force he was 4 years ago. Danny Garcia, in my opinion, is overrated and loses to the first solid fighter who doesn't take him lightly. Bradley isn't what he was. JMM is waaaay past his best. Thurman is green. Khan is chinny, has stamina issues, and is inconsistent. Kell Brook beat Porter, but that is a far cry from Floyd. Brook needs more seasoning. Andrade is green and not even calling Floyd out. Lara and Floyd together would make me cry from the sheer pacifism and non engagement in the ring. Just to clarify, no one is crying but you. Most of us are having a rational discussion on why we rank Floyd a certain way and who we would like to see him fight. You come out of left field throwing a tantrum like a woman scorned who caught Floyd in bed with her sister. Get a grip.

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    Default Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...

    I don't think anyone would complain if Floyd signed to fight Thurman, Brook, Khan, or Pacquiao. After the two Maidana fights, those are all legitimately interesting match ups imo.

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