Comparing Floyd and Bhop's opposition

[Beanflicker]

Hopkins pulled off a lot more big upsets than Floyd, but to be fair Floyd has hardly ever (if ever) been an underdog.

Someone explain to me also how going up in weight and dominating Tarver is any better than going up in weight and beating Canelo Alvarez?

Tarver was a solid fighter and the #1 at LHW at the time for sure, but he had 3 losses on his record and had been beaten by Glen Johnson just a few fights previous.

Canelo was the #1 at his division too. Young, undefeated and has gone on to regain the #1 spot in his division now that Floyd has dropped back to WW.

Someone explain to me how the Tarver win is a much higher quality win, because I don't get it.

[Beanflicker]

It's the same story every time, people make these statements, and when you ask them to justify their opinion they get all defensive and start screaming about "oohhh I guess no one can disagree with anyone here" and "ooohh I guess I nobody can criticize Floyd."

What ever happened to actually having logic to back an opinion or idea? Sheesh

[Master]

Hopkins pulled off a lot more big upsets than Floyd, but to be fair Floyd has hardly ever (if ever) been an underdog.

Someone explain to me also how going up in weight and dominating Tarver is any better than going up in weight and beating Canelo Alvarez?

Tarver was a solid fighter and the #1 at LHW at the time for sure, but he had 3 losses on his record and had been beaten by Glen Johnson just a few fights previous.

Canelo was the #1 at his division too. Young, undefeated and has gone on to regain the #1 spot in his division now that Floyd has dropped back to WW.

Someone explain to me how the Tarver win is a much higher quality win, because I don't get it.

Beating Canelo is a great victory, very under rated.

[Silkeyjoe]

I dont think the Alavrez win was underrated. Alvarez is a good fighter. Good defense, decent power, reasonably fast, decent movement but I have never rated him as great at any of this. Trout is a good fighter and gave him so much trouble that there was no doubt in my mind Floyd would school him. I also thought Lara would school him and while it wasnt a schooling I still think he should have won. Thats too many off days for me to consider Alvarez great.

As for Bhop I agree what he did for 10 years at MW was special but apart from Trinidad the competition really wasnt that good. De la Hoya really shouldnt have been at the weight and had just got a gift of a win over Sturm in the previous fight. For me he lost his 4 biggest fights. Jones Jr, Calzaghe, Taylor and Dawson and had he won one or 2 of these id have him as an all time great. Dont get me wrong he has had a great career just not of an ATG in my mind.

[Spicoli]

adaptability, style(s)

Please please please explain to me how Hopkins beats Floyd in adaptability?

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

[Spicoli]

Hopkins pulled off a lot more big upsets than Floyd, but to be fair Floyd has hardly ever (if ever) been an underdog.

Someone explain to me also how going up in weight and dominating Tarver is any better than going up in weight and beating Canelo Alvarez?

Tarver was a solid fighter and the #1 at LHW at the time for sure, but he had 3 losses on his record and had been beaten by Glen Johnson just a few fights previous.

Canelo was the #1 at his division too. Young, undefeated and has gone on to regain the #1 spot in his division now that Floyd has dropped back to WW.

Someone explain to me how the Tarver win is a much higher quality win, because I don't get it.

In fairness Tarver could say he had knocked out and beaten a great. As well the weight jump was a little bit more significant as opposed to some 1,2 lb catch weight carnival. Alvarez was a quality fight and match and scalp for Mayweather but he hadn't been in the deep end on a large scale.

[ruthless rocco]

let me make this perfectly fucking clear. I dont hate floyd. I dont hate hopkins. My personal feelings for these two does not even enter the equation. If people want to say that bernard is just as good a boxer so what. Criticizing them for saying so does not provide evidence to the contrary. Its simply a statement.

These child like responses that put all who disagree with floyd robots as some kind of "hater" is both freakin hilarious, myopic and plain stupid. Its not dialogue its dogma.

Floyd took very little risks.
Hop took nothing but risks
floyd fought guys that had no chance to beat him
hop fought guys that could all beat him
floyd never unified one division
hop unified middle and double dipped 175 at close to 50
floyd has never fought outside vegas
hop has fought all over the place
floyd had a boyfriend ref in cortez
hop never had a ref in his pocket
floyd has never jumped two weight classes to take on the man of a division
hop has
floyd has never dropped back down to fight a champion
hop has
floyds main reason for fighting at all is money
hops main reason for fighting was/is legacy.
Floyd has coveted the 0
hop has coveted his place in history.
Floyd has used the arum excuse to avoid certain fights
hop has never claimed a bridge burned as a reason not to fight.
Floyd thinks boxing is all about ppv
hop thinks its all about the challenge

hahahahaha!!!!!!

[Beanflicker]

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1280370]

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd? Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose. He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe, Dawson, or Kovalev. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate.

[El Kabong]

If Floyd was to fight GGG that would be on par with BHop fighting Kovalev....it was a very dangerous fight for anyone much less a 50 year old

[ruthless rocco]

Remember how Bernard was completely dominated--every second of every round for 12 rounds? That was awesome!

[Beanflicker]

If Floyd was to fight GGG that would be on par with BHop fighting Kovalev....it was a very dangerous fight for anyone much less a 50 year old

I don't know how that works because Bhop and Kovalev were in the same weight division and of similar size and weight. GGG is two divisions up from Floyd, and even at WW Floyd is routinely outweighed by more of a gap than Kovalev outweighed Bhop, which I believe was 7 lbs.

[SlimTrae]

Hop IMO does't have a resume that questions who he didn't fight.

I think we all can find a fighter or two that PBF didn't fight: For me its Paul Williams who wanted him @ WW, Margarito as well... and a guy named: pacman.

That's why PBF has adjusted to all his challenges: because he chose which ones and when, Hop didn't.

[Beanflicker]

That's why PBF has adjusted to all his challenges: because he chose which ones and when, Hop didn't.

Yeah, is that so?

I remember Hopkins turning down Kovalev as a replacement opponent for him a short time ago, saying Kovalev didn't deserve to fight him.

I remember Hopkins turning rejecting a 2.5 million dollar offer from Frank Warren to fight Joe Calzaghe in 2004.

I remember Hopkins being accused of ducking Chad Dawson when Dawson was the next big thing coming.

I remember Hopkins turning down a 60/40 split to fight then-p4p king Roy Jones.

But you're right... it's all about the legacy for Hopkins, he doesn't care one bit about money

[IamInuit]

So some would like to split hairs eh, well ok.


Floyd challenged Hernendez for the 130 title in 98. Hernendez was battle worn, 33 years old and retired right after the fight.

He defended against Manfredy. Just what happened in that fight and why was it stopped?

Next was Rios. A 30 year old pseudo gate keeper.

Then Jukko, Genera, Vargas and Augustus. Opponents.

Then came Chico. Does anyone actually believe that Chico's head was even there? The guy was about a week away from going to the big house. I'm surprised they went through with the fight.

Next came Carlos Hernandez who was shell shocked and dominated 4 years earlier by the same Genaro Hernandez that Floyd beat and he was able to drop Floyd.

Chavez was next up to the plate and he did pretty well until he gassed.

Then came Castillo at 135 and we all saw that first fight. Big points for Floyd going after that rematch and winning it. That was a great win over a very good fighter but Cortez made his presence known and would go on to do so anytime Floyd was faced with a swarmer/crowding type fighter.

Sosa and Ndou were next at 135. Sosa was an unknown Dominican who fought one person with a pulse prior to Floyd in Spadafora and was soundly beaten. Ndou may have been 30 and 1 when he fought Floyd but go take a look at his opposition.

Then came a 140 eliminator with Corley who did give him some issues with his speed and southpaw approach. He rocked Floyd pretty good at one point. Demarcus was no world beater albeit managing to out point Bailey and barely lose his title to Judah.

Floyd then fought another 140 eliminator against Brussels. I guess he was a contender. So this brings us to 2005.

Arturro Gatti for the 140 WBC title followed keeping that close to 10 year relationship alive. Gatti had went to the well far to many times. To come clean though I actually thought he had a shot based on Floyds shady competition up to that point. Needless to say it was another mismatch.

Mitchell was the next victim and then he jumped up to fight Judah for a Welter paper title that for some reason Judah did not lose when he lost to Carlos Baldomir. Judah was the beginning of name plate recognition.
Nobody in boxing thought he'd make it to 12 but he did and actually did better then expected until he started watching himself.

Floyd doesn’t bother with the Ibf tin but then fights Baldo for the Wbc strap he took off Judah. You'd almost think all of this shit was preplanned.

Oscar was next and to Floyds credit he jumped right up to 154 and the shot at super stardom but was Oscar in his prime in 2007? Name plate number 2. And to Oscars credit he stuck with him until he stopped using his jab.

Hatton was next and I'll just say that Cortez absolutely ruined that fight and did what he was indirectly hired to do. It was pathetic and anyone who stands by the “it wouldn’t have made a difference” is daft with little or no understanding of the sport they pretend to be keen on. Not even Name plate rec on this horror show.

Then it was Marquez for some reason. Pretty much a career featherweight who was having difficulty so wandered up to 130/135. This is the fight after close to a 2 year retirement. And he could not even make the weight he agreed to while Marquez was sporting a suit of new flab. Lets just call this for what it was, A joke.

Its now 2009 and his next mark is Shane but it was a dollar short and a decade late. Name plate number 3.

A year later in 2011 its Victor Ortiz and just look at who the ref was and the job he did. Yup that's right Mr. Cortez with yet another academy performance.

FF close to another year and we see Floyd against Cotto in 2012 prior to going to jail. Ugly fight that Floyd did not look all the great in understandably but the boxing world had already thrown Cotto under the bus and again his prime was killed in cement gate. Name plate number 4

Another year passes an its 2013 and he fights Guerrero. Now Robert earned it I guess by jumping up 2 divisions and beating Aydin and Berto but was the result anything but expected

To his credit just a few months later he agrees to Alvarez but of course there is a catch which then turns into another pass for Floyd in the minds of many. Floyd does a nice job but Alvarez held his own.

And lastly Maidana. A fighter all but dismissed by everyone as a no hoper and we witnessed what we did. Sadly he had no Cortez.

Hardly a ledger that justifies the trumpets.

So endeth my hair splitting.

[powerpuncher]

Again, we can nitpick all we want but I say that the only fighter that bhop faced that was clearly better than any of Floyd's opponents was Jones. I thnk that the rest aren't that different. For example, I don't think the calzaghe fight is any better or worse than Floyd's fight with Oscar. Or I don't think Floyd's fight with canelo is any better than bhops win over pavlik.

Like I said before, I believe that Bhop gets a lot of credit for certain wins because he was old rather than his opponent being great. For example, if he were younger and got a draw against Pascal, it would have been seen as Bhop failing. So he has been in a win win situation for the past 10 years because when he wins its incredible because he's so old but when he loses its alright because he's old.

Basically, longevity helps your case but I feel that Floyd is enough above Bhop in boxing ability that longevity alone doesn't push him past him. I think that Bhop utililzed his talents more efficiently than Floyd but Floyd's talent level was just too high to catch him on greatness. I think that Bhop is a top 5 fighter from the last 2 decades but Floyd is #1 and there's no shame in saying that Floyd is better than you.