What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

[Mr140]

Dear god max is back i agree Wald kills Tunney i don't even know why some are trying to even say other wise even its just fucking stupid. Also Max come on dude Wald got knocked the fuck out by contenders from the 90's and his Brother got his faced smashed by a 38 year Lewis 90's is the best era by far in boxing more so then even the 70's. This era is better then a lot of eras i think the 80's had some good fighters hell Foreman and Holmes could hang with these guys but 60's and down there just no fucking way dude.

[Master]

No one is saying Wlad would not beat Tunney but Max does not read and digest what i write in very simple plain language.

It is about skill, heart, stamina, chin, technique, power, being a champion, consistency, depth in quality the division all which is lacking now except Wlad. It has been dire for years!

(I an not going to mention if Wlad lived in those times he would not be as big or if Tunney was in this time he would have been bigger.)

[fan johnny]

The 70's when most people didn't really understand how dangerous boxing was to one's health. Just seeing what it's done to Ali, has been enough to keep many of the best athletes from pursuing a career in boxing. The risk reward is just too much. And then there are other factors were boxers are still exploited. Today, when we see a gifted athlete, he dominates.

[Max Power]

The 70's when most people didn't really understand how dangerous boxing was to one's health. Just seeing what it's done to Ali, has been enough to keep many of the best athletes from pursuing a career in boxing. The risk reward is just too much. And then there are other factors were boxers are still exploited. Today, when we see a gifted athlete, he dominates.

Muhammad Ali was unique in that he TRIED to get hit with punches. He never developed any reflexes and merely won (if you can call it that) by outstaminising his opponents!

Hardly any other boxers become so brain damaged as that today because they actively TRY NOT to get hit!

Perhaps we can thank Ali for the motivation for modern boxers to develop a defence!

[Max Power]

Dear god max is back i agree Wald kills Tunney i don't even know why some are trying to even say other wise even its just fucking stupid. Also Max come on dude Wald got knocked the fuck out by contenders from the 90's and his Brother got his faced smashed by a 38 year Lewis 90's is the best era by far in boxing more so then even the 70's. This era is better then a lot of eras i think the 80's had some good fighters hell Foreman and Holmes could hang with these guys but 60's and down there just no fucking way dude.

I do have a special connection with the 90's boxers too because grew up idolising them.

There is essentially no difference between then and now. The ONLY difference is the hyping up and the fame names. American media can make and break stars like no other.

I think Vitali, although the stoppage was warranted, proved he was better than Lewis in that fight (obviously so did Lewis think so, Vitali retired him!)

Wladimir had hardly any losses which serve to prove nothing.

Both Klitschko's would have dominated the 90's exactly the same. Most ppl know that.

As you know I think the 60's and 70's is probably the lowest point in HW boxing but I atleast like that you acknowledge at some point, ancient fighters become uncompetitive with modern ones. That's something!

[fan johnny]

The 70's when most people didn't really understand how dangerous boxing was to one's health. Just seeing what it's done to Ali, has been enough to keep many of the best athletes from pursuing a career in boxing. The risk reward is just too much. And then there are other factors were boxers are still exploited. Today, when we see a gifted athlete, he dominates.

Muhammad Ali was unique in that he TRIED to get hit with punches. He never developed any reflexes and merely won (if you can call it that) by outstaminising his opponents!

Hardly any other boxers become so brain damaged as that today because they actively TRY NOT to get hit!
8
Perhaps we can thank Ali for the motivation for modern boxers to develop a defence!

Where did you get so enlightened an Ali's strategy in the ring? Do you mean the rope a dope? I have no idea what you mean when you say Ali never developed reflexes and just won? Can you elaborate so I might be more enlightened.

[Max Power]

The 70's when most people didn't really understand how dangerous boxing was to one's health. Just seeing what it's done to Ali, has been enough to keep many of the best athletes from pursuing a career in boxing. The risk reward is just too much. And then there are other factors were boxers are still exploited. Today, when we see a gifted athlete, he dominates.

Muhammad Ali was unique in that he TRIED to get hit with punches. He never developed any reflexes and merely won (if you can call it that) by outstaminising his opponents!

Hardly any other boxers become so brain damaged as that today because they actively TRY NOT to get hit!
8
Perhaps we can thank Ali for the motivation for modern boxers to develop a defence!

Where did you get so enlightened an Ali's strategy in the ring? Do you mean the rope a dope? I have no idea what you mean when you say Ali never developed reflexes and just won? Can you elaborate so I might be more enlightened.

This is my analysis of Muhammad Ali...

I consider 2 versions..

Muhammad Ali I: Was very fast of hand and feet, was also longer than most of his opponents. He had, as always, great stamina. This Ali was CHINNY (and obviously looked it).

This Clay/Ali performed a "merry-go-round" of his opponents where he was always out of range so his opponents couldn't hit him. But most of the time he couldn't hit his opponents either. He darted in to land his own shots and then get immediately out of range. He avoided much punishment in his first career this way, because he speed, allied to his length advantage enabled him to play tag.

However, you can already see that this Clay/Ali, when he remained for anytime in punching range of his opponents, was hit even by the SLOWEST of punches! Break out the old black and whites and have a good look again, but this time with a critical eye and forget about all the myths you've been fed.

Clay was decked by 185lb Cooper a straight up light HW and a straight up BUM (see record). No HW boxer today would ever be decked (and basically KOed) by a guy like that!

Muhammad Ali II: This Ali was strong for the era, he had a harder chin, even an iron chin for the criteria of the day. And he had great stamina as always. This Ali was still one of the tallest boxers but was no longer particularly tall. And this Ali had lost his foot speed and most of his handspeed. He had become a slow, plodding overweight. His new tactic was basically landing some wind maker shots and then wrestling and fouling.

Because he no longer had his speed, the truth about Ali's reflexes was totally exposed, he had none! Because earlier, he never had any need to develop any!

What followed is probably one of the most disgraceful careers recorded. Being smashed from pillar to post in nearly all of his fights.

I hope I was thorough enough.

[fan johnny]

The 70's when most people didn't really understand how dangerous boxing was to one's health. Just seeing what it's done to Ali, has been enough to keep many of the best athletes from pursuing a career in boxing. The risk reward is just too much. And then there are other factors were boxers are still exploited. Today, when we see a gifted athlete, he dominates.

Muhammad Ali was unique in that he TRIED to get hit with punches. He never developed any reflexes and merely won (if you can call it that) by outstaminising his opponents!

Hardly any other boxers become so brain damaged as that today because they actively TRY NOT to get hit!
8
Perhaps we can thank Ali for the motivation for modern boxers to develop a defence!

Where did you get so enlightened an Ali's strategy in the ring? Do you mean the rope a dope? I have no idea what you mean when you say Ali never developed reflexes and just won? Can you elaborate so I might be more enlightened.

This is my analysis of Muhammad Ali...

I consider 2 versions..

Muhammad Ali I: Was very fast of hand and feet, was also longer than most of his opponents. He had, as always, great stamina. This Ali was CHINNY (and obviously looked it).

This Clay/Ali performed a "merry-go-round" of his opponents where he was always out of range so his opponents couldn't hit him. But most of the time he couldn't hit his opponents either. He darted in to land his own shots and then get immediately out of range. He avoided much punishment in his first career this way, because he speed, allied to his length advantage enabled him to play tag.

However, you can already see that this Clay/Ali, when he remained for anytime in punching range of his opponents, was hit even by the SLOWEST of punches! Break out the old black and whites and have a good look again, but this time with a critical eye and forget about all the myths you've been fed.

Clay was decked by 185lb Cooper a straight up light HW and a straight up BUM (see record). No HW boxer today would ever be decked (and basically KOed) by a guy like that!

Muhammad Ali II: This Ali was strong for the era, he had a harder chin, even an iron chin for the criteria of the day. And he had great stamina as always. This Ali was still one of the tallest boxers but was no longer particularly tall. And this Ali had lost his foot speed and most of his handspeed. He had become a slow, plodding overweight. His new tactic was basically landing some wind maker shots and then wrestling and fouling.

Because he no longer had his speed, the truth about Ali's reflexes was totally exposed, he had none! Because earlier, he never had any need to develop any!

What followed is probably one of the most disgraceful careers recorded. Being smashed from pillar to post in nearly all of his fights.

I hope I was thorough enough.

You're joking...

[Master]

I wish he was joking but he is deadly serious.

Even though a old Lennox smashed Vitali and cause that huge cut he still thinks the Klits can dominate the 90's.

Beyond idiotic.

[Max Power]

I wish he was joking but he is deadly serious.

Even though a old Lennox smashed Vitali and cause that huge cut he still thinks the Klits can dominate the 90's.

Beyond idiotic.

But Lennox did not smash Vitali.

He managed to open him up with swiping shots (because Vitali had him constantly off balance). The chances of Lennox ever managing to repeat that fortunate outcome were little to none.

Despite the cuts, Vitali delivered a flogging to Lennox, as witnessed by the entire crowd who cheered for Vitali and booed Lennox. As witnessed by the entire HBO crew who agreed there had to be a rematch. As forced upon Lennox by Merchant. As obviated by Lennox who retired after witnessing the subsequent destruction of Kirk Johnson in 2 rounds.

If ever there was a fight a fighter LOST in yet proved he was better, this was the fight!

And I AGREE that the fight had to be stopped mind you. Lennox DID get the win. I don't see how VK could have finished the fight.

[Max Power]

You're joking...

Either you haven't SEEN Muhammad's fights, or you've never bothered to properly analyse them.

Farcial events occurred in Ali's fights from the start of career, right through to the end, I can make an entire list of occurances for you to check if you like.

And I almost forgot..

One of the reasons Muhammad was such a champ in the 60's/70's was because we OUTWEIGHED 70% of his opponents (and Foreman a whopping 90%!)

With a median opponent weight of 200lbs flat, that is pathetic when viewed against the modern eras!

As far as HW boxing goes, the fun started with Mike Tyson and continues to this very day.

All previous eras are basically unwatchable except for educational purposes.

Don't get me wrong, I can APPRECIATE those times boxing. But I'd never make an outrageous claim like that was BETTER!

Take away Ali's, height and weight advantage, paint him white, and you basically have JERRY QUARRY! Fact! They were stylistically similar!

[Master]

Max - Lennox was old and at the end of his career and he still beat Vitali. A peak Lennox would destroy him. Get over it.

[Max Power]

Max - Lennox was old and at the end of his career and he still beat Vitali. A peak Lennox would destroy him. Get over it.

Possibly so. I wont fight you on that any further, suffice to say this is how I see it..

A PRE-PRIME Vitali, lost (under unusual circumstances) to a NEAR-PRIME Lennox!

The very best Lennox was only a year and a half prior, vs Rahman II imo.

Vitali continued to get better and better for many years after.

Basically I see Vitali lost to one of the HEAVIEST and THE MOST EXPERIENCED version of Lewis there ever was!

In fact I think there is good chances that if a lighter and more athletic version of Lewis was in that fight, he would have been stopped in 2 rounds by Vitali.

I don't really know who was the better boxer because there are no landslide stats here for me to pull out my ass, but I suspect Vits was overall maybe just a bit better.

Just my opinion and I note, entirely subjective this time round.

[Master]

This is where you make the mistake. Heavier is not better. Lennox was not at his best weight which would have been lighter.

Vitali did not improve technically that much. He always had that robotic style and like any good big brother had to bail out his younger brother when in trouble.

[Max Power]

This is where you make the mistake. Heavier is not better. Lennox was not at his best weight which would have been lighter.

Vitali did not improve technically that much. He always had that robotic style and like any good big brother had to bail out his younger brother when in trouble.

That last part about bailing out little brother, even if it were true, does not make Vitali's case any worse here.

Being out of shape is a disadvantage.

Being heavier is an advantage.

Of course, they often do (and in this case I agree probably did go hand in hand).

So although Lennox might have been a little slower and had a little less stamina, he theoretically would have been able to sap the stamina of VK quicker through weight. He might have had a little more thud on his punches, he DEFINITELY could take a better punch with it. So while some attributes may be worse, some may benefit.

First thing to consider is that Lennox was only 5 bloody lbs over his optimum weight! On a 250lb man this is jack shit! So REALLY we are discussing something extremely petty anyway. Lennox claimed he was in great shape and he did not look anything so soft to me which would have made any real difference to his speed and stamina.

And then I turn to the fight. Lennox was just as fast as he always was at his high 240's anyway.

I will give you that he DID seem to gas earlier than usual, but then again, in all his 43 previous fights he never had another 250lb man pushing the pace on him and smacking him around like a piniata either!

38 years old is not old at all for a modern professional HW boxer, especially with Lewis's style so let's not try to pretend he was too old either! Neither is a 1 year lay off a hinderence these days in a prepared boxer.