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Thread: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    If Sugar would win at 147lb he would wipe Floyd at light middle but the reality is Mayweather would never dare fight such as risky fighter and would wait for a decline, accuse him of PED or weight drain him to make 140lb.
    I don't think Floyd would be able to because SRR wouldn't refuse a drug test like a certain Philippino did.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
    Robinson is just as fast, just as smart as well as being taller and longer.
    You really think Robinson was as fast as Floyd, and as smart as Floyd?

    Watching the old tapes, I think Floyd has the speed advantage by a significant margin.

    Sugar didn't have near the defensive capabilities as Floyd, and from watching a lot of his fights and juxtaposing him with Floyd, I think Floyd undoubtedly had the advantage in ring IQ. Ray's "choices" weren't always the smartest in terms of when to punch, when to stand and trade, when to defend, when to retreat, ect. The guy was obviously an elite talent, but I think he had to rely on his toughness a lot more than you'd expect a master boxer to do because he wasn't the hardest guy to hit, but he had a great chin. He didn't make adjustments as quick as Floyd, either. He was troubled by Lamotta's jab and never really found a good solution for it until the last fight.

    Not saying Robinson couldn't beat Floyd, I just don't see them as equals in speed or ring IQ at all.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    If Sugar would win at 147lb he would wipe Floyd at light middle but the reality is Mayweather would never dare fight such as risky fighter and would wait for a decline, accuse him of PED or weight drain him to make 140lb.
    I don't think Floyd would be able to because SRR wouldn't refuse a drug test like a certain Philippino did.
    Then he would weight drain him, blame Arum, not enough money, not being the first name called in the fight........
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    He is great at throwing multiple punches at a time and they are dangerous punches (as opposed to scoring punches). He wouldn't be afraid to get hit because he has an excellent chin. Robinson fights aggressive in this fight. He doesn't let Floyd relax. Floyd would have his moments of good counters but he wouldn't throw enough punches to win a decision IMO.
    Has to be said though, people said the exact same things about Pac.
    Some people said that but definitely not me

    SRR was kind of like Roy Jones. He relied a lot on his superior talent but wasn't necessarily the smartest boxer (although I'm not claiming that Robinson wasn't smart). Someone like pac has one way to fight and can't adjust. Robinson knows how to adjust and can dig down deep to win a match if needs be.

    I am a big believer in floyds abilities but I can't see him beating Robinson.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post
    It's funny because I've been on a huge SRR kick this last week or so, I've gone back and watched a lot of the old fights that I haven't seen in many years.

    Sugar Ray was a great fighter, a true ATG legend in the sport, and actually stayed very good even into his late 30s and early 40s!

    That being said... I think he benefits greatly from the "era bias", where the "experts" pass down this message that he was the greatest fighter who ever lived until it becomes gospel that everyone recites. People watch the highlight videos, they read the great stories of victory but they don't study the old fights with a critical eye.

    As far as being the greatest in-ring talent of all time... I don't buy it. I think there were better technicians in the ring - Floyd and Pernell included.

    And I'll say that other than having a clear punching power advantage over Floyd, I really don't see what he did better than Floyd in the ring. Floyd was the superior talent and I would pick him to win a (probably boring) decision in a fight that would largely be a fencing match.
    I'll agree mostly with this. Even barring any rule, contract, promotion or other manipulations... Floyd has the defensive experience and strategy on "winning" 12 round boxing matches and benefits from evolutionized training, nutrition, medicine, supplements and other modern conveniences. He specializes in pot shotting and staying away long enough to win a 12 round decision. Boxer vs. Fighter...Floyd decisively earns a decision in the ring. Ray Robinson wins a fight to the death anywhere else.
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    Good thread.

    Right.

    Before we discuss who is better..lets talk about their opponents.

    Were half of sugar rays opponents boxers or plumbers and carpenters.

    Sugar ray is a great fighter but a prime floyd would nulify and destroy rays best weapons.

    Floyd is smarter and the only fighter that will walk away from the sport with half a billion (or more) in the bank..

    TBE (not the best ever but the best of THIS era!)

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Prime Ray was at welterweight, prime Floyd was at super feather. Does not take a genius to know who would win.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Good thread.

    Right.

    Before we discuss who is better..lets talk about their opponents.

    Were half of sugar rays opponents boxers or plumbers and carpenters.

    Sugar ray is a great fighter but a prime floyd would nulify and destroy rays best weapons.

    Floyd is smarter and the only fighter that will walk away from the sport with half a billion (or more) in the bank..

    TBE (not the best ever but the best of THIS era!)
    Have to agree, Floyd is BCE no question about that.

    *BCE=Best Cherrypicker Ever

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    Default

    Thes matchups never make sense. Will we discuss SRR vs Holyfield at LHW next? Maybe SRR vs Moorer.

    The point is the size difference defeats the purpose of the debate.

    SRR almost certainly beats Floyd, means nothing.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    When you compare 2 greats like this there are a ton of factors. You cant really conclude on the available footage alone because that's at 160 for Ray and there was no 54. I have footage of his fight which I cant find right now of Ray vs Fusari at 47 and it does not look all that good and Ray looks far from spectacular. The technology of the day just does not give an accurate view. You also have to consider schedule and things like the fact there was only 1 belt

    And related to that is the fact that Floyd has feasted on very similar opponents for the most part and we do have the footage to prove it. Straight ahead pressure fighters are what his style is built around. He's never faced anyone even on the same wavelength as Robinson. In fairness Ray never battled anyone near Floyd either. Well he did but that was Pep and he outweighed him by 40 pounds in an amateur bout.The Whisp was a fly at the time.

    I think the intangible difference in the fight is state of mind if one had a time machine and they could meet in their prime. I'd take Robinson for that reason lack of tape at 147 or not and most likely by late knockout. I just dont see Floyd handling the pace, drive and athleticism/skill that Ray would bring.
    This magical D that we see against opponent after opponent that comes straight ahead while rinsing and repeating would not look the same against guys like Robinson, Hearns, Leonard, Griffith, Napoles etc etc. It just wouldn't.

    Having said that, there is a reason why Robinson never fought Burley imo and that's because of a very similar style to Floyd in many ways. I think he or rather his handlers avoided the entire Murderers row because of what was viewed as a dangerous D minded counter punching style tucked in behind the shoulder with a superior centre of gravity.

    I guess what I'm saying is that Ray/promoters may not have fought Floyd had they been in the same era and I suppose the same could also be said.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    For anybody talking about the weight, they probably walk around the same since there were same day weigh ins before. So the weight difference would be minimal

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    For anybody talking about the weight, they probably walk around the same since there were same day weigh ins before. So the weight difference would be minimal
    A lot of good points in this thread but I disagree with this.

    If your talking about how things are against how things were, it's like apples and oranges. If Floyd fought in that era he'd likely be a slightly smaller guy not able to cut as much weight. If Ray was in this era, he'd likely be a naturally bigger guy able to cut more weight so either way Ray would be the naturally bigger guy.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Some people said that but definitely not me

    SRR was kind of like Roy Jones. He relied a lot on his superior talent but wasn't necessarily the smartest boxer (although I'm not claiming that Robinson wasn't smart). Someone like pac has one way to fight and can't adjust. Robinson knows how to adjust and can dig down deep to win a match if needs be.

    I am a big believer in floyds abilities but I can't see him beating Robinson.
    That's fair enough and yeah, if one modern era fighter could be compared to SRR it was definitely Roy Jones.
    David Lemieux = Future MW Champ and P4P King

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    For anybody talking about the weight, they probably walk around the same since there were same day weigh ins before. So the weight difference would be minimal
    A lot of good points in this thread but I disagree with this.

    If your talking about how things are against how things were, it's like apples and oranges. If Floyd fought in that era he'd likely be a slightly smaller guy not able to cut as much weight. If Ray was in this era, he'd likely be a naturally bigger guy able to cut more weight so either way Ray would be the naturally bigger guy.
    Yes without question Ray would be the bigger man in there.

    Obviously in Sugar Ray you're talking about a guy who ended up at 160 and even fought at 175.

    Floyd really isn't a a true WW because he doesn't really cut weight. In a lot of his WW fights he's weighed in at 147 and came to the ring at 147-150, while his opponent weighed in excess of 160 for the fight.

    It's a fight that could go either way and it would be foolish to think that it would be an easy fight for either guy. I believe Floyd is the superior talent but in boxing it's not always the superior talent that wins the fight (case in point Lamotta beating SRR, or JCC and Maidana giving Floyd close fights).
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    When I was about eight years old in New Bedford Massachusetts there was always these Sunday outings where our parental units would stick us somewhere or with someone that knew how to entertain kids. Several of us watched boxing off these projector my friend's grandfather had. A few times the subject was Ray Robinson. I know it was a long time ago and suddenly everyone wanted to play baseball instead of watching fights period. It was a long time ago and you could make the case Ray was talented but Ray was tough as nails and Floyd is talented but Robinson was both hard and athletic. Robinson was much more experienced and most of his skills were picked up in action. There was an interview with an old Opponent of Ray's named Carmen Basilio who relieved Ray of his title and was forced to lose it in the rematch. In the Ring Magazine interview during the seventies he explained he had no like for Robinson and went on to say he didn't think Ray was talented the way everyone thought but he did say that Ray of all the boxers he ever knew, knew how and when to punch with an emphasis on how. Basilio was also well remembered by guys who passed up taking a piss after a bout with him. By the way I saw Floyd on television"s dancing with the stars and remembered Ray used to dance in clubs and television too and was paid for it. He wasn't memorable in that department but he was also hands on in everything in his lifetime.
    Last edited by johnsebastianmiran; 08-03-2015 at 12:33 AM. Reason: spelling

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