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Thread: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    @johnsebastianmiran I wanted to mention Ray being a better dancer but it would have came across as silly. You did it justice.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    When it comes to Floyd there are these fighters who i would pick over him 80 percent of the time and that is Leonard, Hearns, and Robinson. Leonard has faced a defensive fighter who was not as good as Floyd but he is close in Benitez and did very well even knocking him out. As for Floyd he has not been with a fighter that fights like Leonard or is close to him in skill also size is a huge factor. Hearns is a huge problem for Floyed i mean no one ever out boxed Hearns he had a huge reach and height advantage on Floyd not to mention the power to end him. Hearns shin is not granite but Floyd is not on the level of power of a Leonard, Hagler, of the blade really those guys power was another level and they were bigger dudes as well. Seen some of Robinson welter fights and his speed i feel is close to Mayweathers at welterweight but a lot of Robinson's prime is unrecorded but he was a lot bigger and his reach is up there as well plus he had the power to put people in a shell he could knock people out with weirdest punches as well. Anyhow these guys are true welterweight though so it really not that fair we should be talking about guys that were in 130-140 range would be more fair and make more sense. I mean we have all these great fighters we can make match ups with that weight class makes a lot more sense then this one i would think weight is a big issue and good guy with a size advantage can go a really long way man.
    Last edited by Master; 08-03-2015 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    I think for me, the long and the short of it is that :

    A) Floyd appears to have the more impressive list of opponents, although I seriously have to question if some most of those 'names' will stand the test of time (Hatton was a 'monster' less than 10 years ago).

    B) Has generally had a more successful career. Although with more control, more weight classes, more belts, more bureaucracy, there is more room for a 'career'.

    C) Neither fighter has faced anything like what the other guy offered.

    D) I still think Ray was naturally a lot bigger than Floyd. Although is clearly slower than Floyd and not THAT powerful but crucially punched with a mean intent AND in combination! He was tough as nails, had a longer reach and an equal jab to Floyd and so think that he was well equipped to dismantle Floyd.

    E) I think there have been MANY fighters over the years who have looked better than what Ray did back then. That's just the process of time tested teaching.

    F) I don't belive Floyd's isn't currently a natural Welterweight. He is a consummate professional yet couldn't make 144 against Marquez. He has obviously grown over the years so was probably once a natural light welterweight. He was starving himself to make 130.
    Last edited by Jimanuel Boogustus; 08-05-2015 at 06:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Robinson had 130 wins before his 2nd loss. 1st loss he was outweighed by 15lbs to HOFer who he beat 5x in 6 fights.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus View Post

    F) I don't belive Floyd's isn't currently a natural Welterweight. He is a consummate professional yet couldn't make 144 against Marquez. He has obviously grown over the years so was probably once a natural light welterweight. He was starving himself to make 130.
    Look at his weights on fight night compared to his opponent's at WW.

    Mayweather: 150
    Ortiz: 164

    Mayweather: 149
    Baldomir: 162

    Mayweather: 146 (same as official weigh-in weight)
    Judah: 150

    Mayweather: 148
    Mitchell: 155

    That's not a true WW. He really doesn't cut much weight. Most guys are going up 10-15lbs over their weight class the next day.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Doesn't or can't?

    The facts point to both.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus View Post
    Doesn't or can't?

    The facts point to both.
    Well he obviously had to cut weight to make 130 so I assume he can and knows how to. Anyone can sweat 10-15lbs of water out of themselves.

    Maybe he's got the right idea with not cutting big weight like most guys do. He's slowed down considerably but still looks great at 38 or 39 or whatever he is.

    But if you tell me a guy weights 147-150 on fight day, I assume you're talking about a small junior welterweight or a big light weight.

    Look at some of Broner's weights. People say he's too small for WW, but he's come to the ring much heavier than Floyd has, even at Jr WW.

    Broner: Official: 141 - Unofficial: 157
    Molina: Official: 140 - Unofficial: 154

    At 130lbs

    Broner: 144
    Ponce De Leon: 136
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post

    Well he obviously had to cut weight to make 130 so I assume he can and knows how to. Anyone can sweat 10-15lbs of water out of themselves.
    Mayweather didn't eat for three or four days prior to his last fight at Super Featherweight. That's not 'know-how', that's stupidity on Adrien Broner levels. He obviously was NOT a natural Super-Featherweight at that time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post

    At 130lbs

    Broner: 144
    Ponce De Leon: 136
    Mayweather in the same last fight at Super Featherweight, came into the ring at 137.
    7 pounds gained on to man who had starved himself for days prior to the fight.

    I dunno man. I'm not a scientist but the facts suggest that some people just aren't 'gainers'. I think Floyd can't cut as much as he doesn't gain.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    There's no way Floyd couldn't hook himself up with a guy who could help him cut the weight.

    But weight cutting aside, even if Floyd can't cut the weight that's really irrelevant.

    It's based on what you come in at fight time.

    If you're not entering the ring at around 157 or more, you're not a true WW in the modern sense. And it shows. Floyd gives up big weight to almost every guy he fights.

    Against Maidana, Floyd was 148 unofficially (after weighing 146) and Maidana was 165. Floyd's not a true WW.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Okay bro so because Floyd wasn't blowing up to 140+ he wasn't a true FW either?

    See sense bro. That's just Floyd. He can't make 144. He's a welterweight. Fact.
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    Robinson would get exposed again as he has lost in the past.

    We still dont know how to beat floyd.

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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus View Post
    Okay bro so because Floyd wasn't blowing up to 140+ he wasn't a true FW either?

    See sense bro. That's just Floyd. He can't make 144. He's a welterweight. Fact.
    Let me put it simply for you and anyone else who may be confused.

    If we took every top 50 WW, took their "unofficial fight time" weight and averaged it off, we'd get a certain number. Obviously we'd have to actually do that to get a real accurate number, but judging by the unofficial weight data I've seen and what I know about cutting weight, I'd estimate it at around 10lbs over the "weigh in weight".

    So the average WW weighs in at 147, rehydrates, and comes into the ring weighing around 157. Some guys come in more (Maidana came in at 165, Ortiz 162), some guys I'm sure come in less than that. But we're talking on average.

    That unofficial weight is the TRUE size of the WW, because to make 147 they temporarily removed as much water from their bodies as possible. Keith Thurman is not a 147lb man, neither is Porter, Kel Brook, ect. I think we all understand that.

    What I'm telling you is that Floyd's TRUE weight, the weight he comes into the ring as, is VERY far below the average WW unofficial weight. Floyd's true unofficial weight is at or below the average true weight of a Jr WW. I guarantee you there are LWs who come into the ring heavier than Floyd does fighting at WW.

    So for that reason, I consider Floyd undersized at WW. Is he technically a WW, in that he can make the WW limit? Of course. But he is going to be giving up weight against virtually every opponent he faces.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Robinson would get exposed again as he has lost in the past.

    We still dont know how to beat floyd.
    Robinson could have retired with a 0 very easily if he had to.
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    Default Re: Ray Robinson vs Floyd Maweather @ 147 or 154

    I don't understand what is so hard to understand that Robinson wasn't a welter like it is today. He didn't rehydrate to 160. The time he lost to LaMotta, he weighed 144 while LaMotta weighed 160. He weighed in the same day. Floyd now, probably walked around at the same weight as a prime Robinson.

    I could be wrong but somebody prove that Robinson walked around at 160 or so in between fights. He even said that he could have made 135 which shows that he wasn't that big.

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