Dissecting Ali hate

[Bill Paxtom]

I find all this Ali-obsessive hate amusing.
So I figure there's got to be one or more reasons why this hate exists in some people.
Below are some theories:

Old enough to have co-existed with Ali in his youth. Maybe you're old enough that you were a boxing fan back when Ali was in his prime. Maybe you hated Ali for refusing to be drafted. Maybe you yourself were a Vietnam (or other war) vet, and took it personally. Maybe you're a white dude who resented Ali's brash and outspoken personality. Or maybe you're a black guy who resented Ali not being "black enough" in some people's eyes.

Not old enough, but fan of another fighter you feel has been slighted in favor of Ali. Specifically..... Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, etc. Maybe you resent Ali for that reason. Ali and Marciano never met, so the best they could do was a "computer" matchup which in my estimation was pretty shitty. No relation to reality. In Holmes' case, it was the curse of following one of the greatest in the division, which an outlandish personality to match. Holmes always resented coming along after Ali.

Resentful of Cassius Clay changing his name to Muhammad Ali based on his Muslim religious beliefs. Maybe you don't like people who do that, and feel he should have stayed Cassius. You resent people who do that, so you may not like Kareem Abdul Jabbar too much either.

Hate his fighting style. I don't see why this should cause outright hate, so I hesitated to put it in here in the first place. Just not liking a fighter's style shouldn't cause the hate Ali gets. But just in case, it's in here. Maybe you don't like the way Ali used to pull opponents' head down... or used the rope-a-dope.... or something else.


I've actually run out of reasons. Please feel free to add your own. It's a thread for the haters, really. Not trying to change anyone's mind..... just trying to understand the bitter hate, is all.

I love Ali

He was a black man, who used his position to tell the truth to the face of white people and who stood up for black people. Did not sell out. He said that white people are a race of devils.

Oh So Wrong .......

Cassius Clay was literally owned by the Louisville Sponsoring Group {11 White Men}.

Cassius Clay had '3' White Lawyers represent him in his case versus the United States Government.

Those-in-the-Know, including myself as a Black Man, knew that Cassius Clay was a Sell-Out of monumental proportions.

[Bill Paxtom]

I find all this Ali-obsessive hate amusing.
So I figure there's got to be one or more reasons why this hate exists in some people.
Below are some theories:

Old enough to have co-existed with Ali in his youth. Maybe you're old enough that you were a boxing fan back when Ali was in his prime. Maybe you hated Ali for refusing to be drafted. Maybe you yourself were a Vietnam (or other war) vet, and took it personally. Maybe you're a white dude who resented Ali's brash and outspoken personality. Or maybe you're a black guy who resented Ali not being "black enough" in some people's eyes.

Not old enough, but fan of another fighter you feel has been slighted in favor of Ali. Specifically..... Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, etc. Maybe you resent Ali for that reason. Ali and Marciano never met, so the best they could do was a "computer" matchup which in my estimation was pretty shitty. No relation to reality. In Holmes' case, it was the curse of following one of the greatest in the division, which an outlandish personality to match. Holmes always resented coming along after Ali.

Resentful of Cassius Clay changing his name to Muhammad Ali based on his Muslim religious beliefs. Maybe you don't like people who do that, and feel he should have stayed Cassius. You resent people who do that, so you may not like Kareem Abdul Jabbar too much either.

Hate his fighting style. I don't see why this should cause outright hate, so I hesitated to put it in here in the first place. Just not liking a fighter's style shouldn't cause the hate Ali gets. But just in case, it's in here. Maybe you don't like the way Ali used to pull opponents' head down... or used the rope-a-dope.... or something else.


I've actually run out of reasons. Please feel free to add your own. It's a thread for the haters, really. Not trying to change anyone's mind..... just trying to understand the bitter hate, is all.

I love Ali

He was a black man, who used his position to tell the truth to the face of white people and who stood up for black people. Did not sell out. He said that white people are a race of devils.

Oh So Wrong .......

Cassius Clay was literally owned by the Louisville Sponsoring Group {11 White Men}.

Cassius Clay had '3' White Lawyers represent him in his case versus the United States Government.

Those-in-the-Know, including myself as a Black Man, knew that Cassius Clay was a Sell-Out of monumental proportions.

One minute he's in California singing-and-dancing like a 'fancy boy' with Liberace. Then the next
minute, he's a Black Muslim Minister.

Come On ............ 'Who's Shitting Who'

[Mr140]

The only thing the bothers me about Ali is the way he treated Fraizer man in fact the way he was tried in those times by everyone kinda erks me. That being said there is not much else i mean the draft well they did not want him then when he is champ all the sudden he is drafted. I mean how do you feel about a country who does not see you as a person really i mean the man wins a gold medal for this country and the fuckers wont serve him food. I mean Ali was no saint but to be black in the 60's was pretty fucked i mean did he do the right thing all the time no but i can understand some of his choices.

[denilson200]

Cassius Clay was literally owned by the Louisville Sponsoring Group {11 White Men}.

Cassius Clay had '3' White Lawyers represent him in his case versus the United States Government.

We are talking about Muhammad Ali. Not Cassius Clay.

Go to 22.54. The man himself will be able to explain what those 11 and 3 white men done



One of the reason he changed his name to M.Ali was precisely because of dealing with the white men you just mention. Racism protects by creating a system that you are dependent on.

Those-in-the-Know, including myself as a Black Man, knew that Cassius Clay was a Sell-Out of monumental proportions.

How so ?

Most black athletes today would be to terrified to talk about stand up for his people like this. Go to 11.29



And how many other black athletes nowadays talk about racism / white supremacy like he did ? None. Not Mayweather. Not Ward. Not Lebron. Not Kobi. Not Tiger. None

One minute he's in California singing-and-dancing like a 'fancy boy' with Liberace. Then the next
minute, he's a Black Muslim Minister.

Dude. Are you serious ? Is that the worst piece of dirt you could come up with on Ali ? That he was dancing with Liberace ? Jesus Christ.

[Bill Paxtom]

The only thing the bothers me about Ali is the way he treated Fraizer man in fact the way he was tried in those times by everyone kinda erks me. That being said there is not much else i mean the draft well they did not want him then when he is champ all the sudden he is drafted. I mean how do you feel about a country who does not see you as a person really i mean the man wins a gold medal for this country and the fuckers wont serve him food. I mean Ali was no saint but to be black in the 60's was pretty fucked i mean did he do the right thing all the time no but i can understand some of his choices.

1960

Cassius Clay didn't win the Gold Medal for the United States Boxing Team or America, he won it for

"Himself"

[Bill Paxtom]

The only thing the bothers me about Ali is the way he treated Fraizer man in fact the way he was tried in those times by everyone kinda erks me. That being said there is not much else i mean the draft well they did not want him then when he is champ all the sudden he is drafted. I mean how do you feel about a country who does not see you as a person really i mean the man wins a gold medal for this country and the fuckers wont serve him food. I mean Ali was no saint but to be black in the 60's was pretty fucked i mean did he do the right thing all the time no but i can understand some of his choices.

1960

Cassius Clay didn't win the Gold Medal for the United States Boxing Team or America, he won it for

'Himself'

[TitoFan]

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

At the moment here in the USA we are all entitled to our own opinions. How long for the way its going who knows. The majority of people slating Ali werent even around when he was fighting & just rely on the media version of Ali. I was lucky enough to have been around to see his career as it happened & Ive also been lucky enough to have met him ,talked with him & watch how he really is when no press were around. He is an awesome person. Though I do not agree with his religious beliefs I admire the way he stood for them through all thew adversity. Just one thought put yourself in his place. How would you feel if you'd won Olympic gold. had dinner in the White House with the President were treated as a hero. THEN 2 weeks later you were refused service in a Louisville diner due to the color of your skin nothing else. Would your gold medal end up in the river too

Everyone on this planet has to overcome some adversity in their life.

No one gets a 'Free' Lunch.

That was weak, Bill. Even by your standards.

[Bill Paxtom]

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

At the moment here in the USA we are all entitled to our own opinions. How long for the way its going who knows. The majority of people slating Ali werent even around when he was fighting & just rely on the media version of Ali. I was lucky enough to have been around to see his career as it happened & Ive also been lucky enough to have met him ,talked with him & watch how he really is when no press were around. He is an awesome person. Though I do not agree with his religious beliefs I admire the way he stood for them through all thew adversity. Just one thought put yourself in his place. How would you feel if you'd won Olympic gold. had dinner in the White House with the President were treated as a hero. THEN 2 weeks later you were refused service in a Louisville diner due to the color of your skin nothing else. Would your gold medal end up in the river too

Everyone on this planet has to overcome some adversity in their life.

No one gets a 'Free' Lunch.

That was weak, Bill. Even by your standards.

You Are Aware,

That Cassius Clay story {about him not getting served Lunch at a Louisville Diner} was a totally
fabricated story that was made up by his publicity agent to get him some sympathy.

Suddenly in 1960, Cassius Clay is having problems getting served at the same Louisville Diner
{'The Colonel Diner'} that he was in many times before.

As us back in the Ghetto used to say >

"Sheeeet Man, that be made up."

[TitoFan]

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

At the moment here in the USA we are all entitled to our own opinions. How long for the way its going who knows. The majority of people slating Ali werent even around when he was fighting & just rely on the media version of Ali. I was lucky enough to have been around to see his career as it happened & Ive also been lucky enough to have met him ,talked with him & watch how he really is when no press were around. He is an awesome person. Though I do not agree with his religious beliefs I admire the way he stood for them through all thew adversity. Just one thought put yourself in his place. How would you feel if you'd won Olympic gold. had dinner in the White House with the President were treated as a hero. THEN 2 weeks later you were refused service in a Louisville diner due to the color of your skin nothing else. Would your gold medal end up in the river too

Everyone on this planet has to overcome some adversity in their life.

No one gets a 'Free' Lunch.

That was weak, Bill. Even by your standards.

You Are Aware,

That Cassius Clay story {about him not getting served Lunch at a Louisville Diner} was a totally
fabricated story that was made up by his publicity agent to get him some sympathy.

Suddenly in 1960, Cassius Clay is having problems getting served at the same Louisville Diner
{'The Colonel Diner'} that he was in many times before.

As us back in the Ghetto used to say >

"Sheeeet Man, that be made up."

So....... in the United States south of the 50's and 60's...... Ali was NEVER discriminated against because of being black.

Hmmm....



(BTW, that was a lousy ghetto impersonation).

[beenKOed]

Every body knows Ali was a mean spirited prick, it's hard for me to see how anyone can deny it or forgive it.
Ali, a great American! What a joke, when he was away from boxing he was being lead around like a bull with with a nose ring, parroting whatever he was told, and too gullible to realize he was being used. I'm not saying he didn't believe many of the things he said, but he was a puppet, none the less.
In my opinion, of course!

[TitoFan]

Those-in-the-Know, including myself as a Black Man, knew that Cassius Clay was a Sell-Out of monumental proportions.

Ok.

Those of you who actually believe Bill is black, please form an orderly line in the back.... so I can talk to you later about some prime oceanfront property I own in Nebraska and looking to sell at a good price.

Thanks.

[El Kabong]

So....... in the United States south of the 50's and 60's...... Ali was NEVER discriminated against because of being black.

Hmmm....



(BTW, that was a lousy ghetto impersonation).

Say what you want about Ali, say what you want about Bill, but I'll be God damned if you DARE call Kentucky Southern!

[Bill Paxtom]

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

At the moment here in the USA we are all entitled to our own opinions. How long for the way its going who knows. The majority of people slating Ali werent even around when he was fighting & just rely on the media version of Ali. I was lucky enough to have been around to see his career as it happened & Ive also been lucky enough to have met him ,talked with him & watch how he really is when no press were around. He is an awesome person. Though I do not agree with his religious beliefs I admire the way he stood for them through all thew adversity. Just one thought put yourself in his place. How would you feel if you'd won Olympic gold. had dinner in the White House with the President were treated as a hero. THEN 2 weeks later you were refused service in a Louisville diner due to the color of your skin nothing else. Would your gold medal end up in the river too

Everyone on this planet has to overcome some adversity in their life.

No one gets a 'Free' Lunch.

That was weak, Bill. Even by your standards.

You Are Aware,

That Cassius Clay story {about him not getting served Lunch at a Louisville Diner} was a totally
fabricated story that was made up by his publicity agent to get him some sympathy.

Suddenly in 1960, Cassius Clay is having problems getting served at the same Louisville Diner
{'The Colonel Diner'} that he was in many times before.

As us back in the Ghetto used to say >

"Sheeeet Man, that be made up."

So....... in the United States south of the 50's and 60's...... Ali was NEVER discriminated against because of being black.

Hmmm....



(BTW, that was a lousy ghetto impersonation).

Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. was 'never' discriminated against in Louisville, Kentucky
because he was black.

He was not respected by some, because he acted like an 'ASSHOLE'.

[TitoFan]

So....... in the United States south of the 50's and 60's...... Ali was NEVER discriminated against because of being black.

Hmmm....



(BTW, that was a lousy ghetto impersonation).

Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. was 'never' discriminated against in Louisville, Kentucky
because he was black.

He was not respected by some, because he acted like an 'ASSHOLE'.

.... and you were there to personally vouch for this.


Face it, Bill. The only people here who actually respond to you are those of us with infinite patience (like @Master ), who choose to humor you once in awhile. You've got about as much credibility as when George W. said we were going to go hunt for WMD in Iraq.

[TitoFan]

So....... in the United States south of the 50's and 60's...... Ali was NEVER discriminated against because of being black.

Hmmm....



(BTW, that was a lousy ghetto impersonation).

Say what you want about Ali, say what you want about Bill, but I'll be God damned if you DARE call Kentucky Southern!

Hey don't fight ME.
Fight these guys.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States