Leonard v Hagler

[Master]

What specifically did Leonard see in the Hagler v Mugabi fight that made him willing to step in with Marvalous and sure that he would beat him?

The beast was young, strong, powerful, hungry power puncher and undefeated when Marvin beat him in a good, competitive and exciting fight. Hagler stopped Mugabi and that should have scared Ray but instead he saw weaknesses. What?

[mikeeod]

I remember Ray saying that it was two things: 1) Marvin had slowed down enough that he fought that type of fight (people forget that Marvin was a very good boxer and fast earlier in his career). 2) The damage Marvin took n that fight would have a detrimental effect in his next.

[Fenster]

He saw $$$ signs.

I recently watched Hagler-Mugabi again, thought Mickey Duff and the corner were trying to get him killed near the end, he was completely fucked in the 10th round and they sent him out for the 11th giving him talks from the priest

[Master]

He saw $$$ signs.

I recently watched Hagler-Mugabi again, thought Mickey Duff and the corner were trying to get him killed near the end, he was completely fucked in the 10th round and they sent him out for the 11th giving him talks from the priest

Excatly! Hagler was still a beast.

[Sleepwalker]

This is why Leonard and Ali are considered two of the most intelligent fighters ever. They look for weakness, that edge, whether it's physical or psychological. Regardless of how intimidating their opponent is leading up to the fight.

Leonard knew that Hagler was annoyed by the posturing over the years and the Hagler was going to underestimate him to a certain extent. Why do you think Hagler agreed to Ray's ring/gloves conditions so easily?

Hagler was taken aback by Leonard during the early part of the fight and Ray took full advantage of it.

[brocktonblockbust]

Sugaring kNew Marvin Hagler was mentally one-dimensional.

[IamInuit]

I remember Ray saying that it was two things: 1) Marvin had slowed down enough that he fought that type of fight (people forget that Marvin was a very good boxer and fast earlier in his career). 2) The damage Marvin took n that fight would have a detrimental effect in his next.

Indeed. And Mayweather is doing the same thing in eyeing the same middleweight picture. History repeating itself. Ray got under Haglers skin before he even retired. He stayed there festering. Hagler as bad ass as he was also had a feeling of indestructibility. Ray worked on that with little press blurbs to the point where Hagler called him a little shrimp and that he's crush him like a bug. When Hagler was fighting Mugabi he was thinking about Leonard. By the time the opportunity came, Hagler was willing to do anything to land it which he did. 12 rounds instead of 15, 10 oz Reyes instead of 8 oz and the ring size of 20 feet. Hubris and the money sealed the deal. With added percentage for the gate Hagler made about 15 million or more cash then he made over his entire career. He was so over confident that he came out right handed and gave the fight away based on two of the cards. The guy with the 118/110 card was having an out of body experience.

Leonard decided to challenge Hagler after watching his fight with John Mugabi on March 10, 1986. "I was at ringside," Leonard said, "sitting with Michael J. Fox. We were sitting there having a few beers, and I'm watching John "The Beast" Mugabi outbox Hagler. Of all people, John "The Beast" Mugabi.

[Master]

I did not see Mugabi out boxing Hagler.

[IamInuit]

I did not see Mugabi out boxing Hagler.

The mere fact that Mugabi was able to hang with Hagler and keep it pretty even over the first half was enough for Leonard. Hagler closed the show over the last 3 but even Moretti had it by a point at the time of the stoppage.

An interesting tidbit is that Hagler actually gave up his other belts to make the Leonard fight. He was stripped of the WBA for not fighting Graham and the IBF refused to sanction the fight and said the title would be declared vacant if Hagler lost which it was.

[IamInuit]

[X]

He Saw that Hagler had slowed down considerably and abandoned a lot of his boxing skills in favour of trying to blow people out.

He quite correctly worked out that he could get all of his outrageous demands met. Run like a thief for two minutes of every round, blind the judges to the actual fight and stack all the cards in his favour.

[Master]

He Saw that Hagler had slowed down considerably and abandoned a lot of his boxing skills in favour of trying to blow people out.

He quite correctly worked out that he could get all of his outrageous demands met. Run like a thief for two minutes of every round, blind the judges to the actual fight and stack all the cards in his favour.

You are not wrong there. The show boating and running against hagler certainly gave one judge an hard on.

[Master]

[mikeeod]

Not sure how much there is to this, really just me thinking out loud, but I am of the opinion that the Hearns fight set Marvin up for failure. He walked through one of the most fearsome punchers in history and left him battered and broken, while soaking up adulation like he never had before. I feel that at that moment he felt invincible, and set his mind to not only outskilling his opponent, but truly dominating and destroying him. Marvin could have easily outfoxed and countered Mugabi to a knockout, but he craved that adulation from the Hearns fight, and likely felt the need to walk through a fearsome puncher again and take his soul (I feel like he did). Ray recognized the slight slip/abandoning of his skilled fighting style, as well as the hubris that would eventually lead to Marvin's defeat. I felt that Hagler won the fight, but in reality, it shouldn't have even been close.

[Ron Swanson]

It wasn't just what you all are saying. Ray also admitted to having dinner with Hagler where Hagler flat out told him he was done. He was having relationship issues, his heart wasn't in it anymore. That's what put Ray ringside in the first place. He went hoping to see Hagler was indeed done. And as has been mentioned Mugabi had no business holding his own with Hagler. He was indeed done, Ray saw it. And suddenly he wanted the fight.

Ray deserves all the respect in the world for his career but when you say "I can beat him, I'm going to fight him" after years of not fighting him. Well, you have inadvertently admitted that if you couldn't beat him you wouldn't fight him. Ray waited Marvin out.

I still say Hagler won and I'll say it until I die but Ray did everything possible to stack the deck and he snuck away with a decision.