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Thread: Stylistic nightmares.

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    Default Stylistic nightmares.

    What were some times where a fighter lost to a fighter below his level because he was a bad stylistic match-up?

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Shane Mosley vs Vernon Forrest & Shane Mosley vs Winky Wright: Both times Shane was up against lanky long fighters with good jabs and good right hands as well as solid defenses.

    Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas: sure Mike didn't train and sure Buster worked his ass off, but you had to believe that somebody like a Douglas would come in and beat Tyson, maybe by decision, but you never thought you'd see Tyson KO'd. That matchup was very similar to the Mosley-Forrest matchup only Douglas hadn't had any consistency as a fighter and he certainly had never achieved and would never again achieve that success in the ring.....it was a bad style matchup exacerbated by Mike Tyson not training.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    A few cases come to mind:
    Terry Norris vs Keith Mullings
    Kostya Tszyu vs Vince Philips/Ricky Hatton
    James Toney vs Drake Thadzi/Dave Tiberi/Montell Griffin
    Antonio Tarver vs Glen Johnson
    Vernon Forrest vs Ricardo Mayorga
    Andrew Lewis vs Mayorga
    Roberto Duran vs Tommy Hearns
    Tommy Hearns vs Iran Barkley
    Marco Antonio Barrera vs Junior Jones/Pac Man (first fight)

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Disagree with a lot of those including Tyson v Douglas and Terry v Mullings.

    Tyson had beaten better fighters than Douglas like Tucker (who had beaten Buster already). Mike looked poor in that fight and almost unrecognisable from the fighter that blew away Berbick and Spinks.

    Terry Norris was shot by the time he lost to Mullings, peak Terry would destroy him.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Disagree with a lot of those including Tyson v Douglas and Terry v Mullings.

    Tyson had beaten better fighters than Douglas like Tucker (who had beaten Buster already). Mike looked poor in that fight and almost unrecognisable from the fighter that blew away Berbick and Spinks.

    Terry Norris was shot by the time he lost to Mullings, peak Terry would destroy him.
    Second that, also

    Kostya Tszyu vs Vince Philips/Ricky Hatton

    Kostya Tszyu got soft version of what happened to Tyson before DOuglas, he got cocky, did not train hard enough, relied on his talent and low level of the opponent too much. This has nothing to do with style
    Learn Mike Tyson style and elements of Peekaboo @ SugarBoxing

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Disagree with a lot of those including Tyson v Douglas

    Tyson had beaten better fighters than Douglas like Tucker (who had beaten Buster already). Mike looked poor in that fight and almost unrecognisable from the fighter that blew away Berbick and Spinks.
    OK

    True, Tyson DID beat better fighters than Douglas (but that's not the question posed). Now, Tony Tucker was a very good fighter, yes he was better than Douglas, BUT Tony Tucker had injured his right hand in sparring and in the fight vs Tyson he broke his hand early on and therefore was fighting Tyson one handed and was at a serious disadvantage. Tony Tucker could have been the guy to beat Tyson had everything fallen into place, but it didn't. Now the question posed was "stylistic nightmares" and I stand by the Tyson's style wasn't good at dealing with fighters who could move and use range on the night he fought Buster Douglas you saw the limitations of Tyson's style...he had trouble working in because Douglas tied him up, he had trouble landing because Douglas used distance. There were times Douglas slipped up and a prime Tyson would have ended things, but at that moment Douglas just simply had the style to beat THAT Tyson and he did so convincingly winning round after round after round.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Disagree with a lot of those including Tyson v Douglas

    Tyson had beaten better fighters than Douglas like Tucker (who had beaten Buster already). Mike looked poor in that fight and almost unrecognisable from the fighter that blew away Berbick and Spinks.
    OK

    True, Tyson DID beat better fighters than Douglas (but that's not the question posed). Now, Tony Tucker was a very good fighter, yes he was better than Douglas, BUT Tony Tucker had injured his right hand in sparring and in the fight vs Tyson he broke his hand early on and therefore was fighting Tyson one handed and was at a serious disadvantage. Tony Tucker could have been the guy to beat Tyson had everything fallen into place, but it didn't. Now the question posed was "stylistic nightmares" and I stand by the Tyson's style wasn't good at dealing with fighters who could move and use range on the night he fought Buster Douglas you saw the limitations of Tyson's style...he had trouble working in because Douglas tied him up, he had trouble landing because Douglas used distance. There were times Douglas slipped up and a prime Tyson would have ended things, but at that moment Douglas just simply had the style to beat THAT Tyson and he did so convincingly winning round after round after round.

    Tyson style was DESIGNED to tackle style of DOuglas and Tucker and ... Ali .... And Master says that since prime Tyson won over Tucker so easily, stylistically, Douglas would be even easier. There was NOTHING special about DOuglas, and bloated motionless Tyson managed KD him with the only clean shot in that fight.
    Learn Mike Tyson style and elements of Peekaboo @ SugarBoxing

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by NVSemin View Post
    Tyson style was DESIGNED to tackle style of DOuglas and Tucker and ... Ali .... And Master says that since prime Tyson won over Tucker so easily, stylistically, Douglas would be even easier. There was NOTHING special about DOuglas, and bloated motionless Tyson managed KD him with the only clean shot in that fight.
    Floyd Patterson had the same style, how did he do vs Ali? Mike Tyson fought Lennox Lewis as well (similar style to Tucker and Douglas) and how did that go? Again, Tony Tucker had a broken right hand, that made a huge difference in that fight, plus Tucker lasted the distance showing that Tyson couldn't even stop a wounded fighter with that style.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NVSemin View Post
    Tyson style was DESIGNED to tackle style of DOuglas and Tucker and ... Ali .... And Master says that since prime Tyson won over Tucker so easily, stylistically, Douglas would be even easier. There was NOTHING special about DOuglas, and bloated motionless Tyson managed KD him with the only clean shot in that fight.
    Floyd Patterson had the same style, how did he do vs Ali? Mike Tyson fought Lennox Lewis as well (similar style to Tucker and Douglas) and how did that go? Again, Tony Tucker had a broken right hand, that made a huge difference in that fight, plus Tucker lasted the distance showing that Tyson couldn't even stop a wounded fighter with that style.
    Tyson was Patterson on steroid, far more superior athlete. I might be wrong here, but I recall Patterson dropped D'Amato when he fought Ali and Liston, so D'Amato said it was Patterson loss, not Peekaboo loss

    Post prison, post Rooney Tyson was not using "peekaboo" against Lewis, he was fighting like most of Freddy Roach fighters , orthodox slugger . If you do not accept this argument, I officially demand your life ban by @Master
    Learn Mike Tyson style and elements of Peekaboo @ SugarBoxing

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by NVSemin View Post
    Tyson was Patterson on steroid, far more superior athlete. I might be wrong here, but I recall Patterson dropped D'Amato when he fought Ali and Liston, so D'Amato said it was Patterson loss, not Peekaboo loss

    Post prison, post Rooney Tyson was not using "peekaboo" against Lewis, he was fighting like most of Freddy Roach fighters , orthodox slugger . If you do not accept this argument, I officially demand your life ban by @Master
    So the peekaboo style is unbeatable? Kevin Rooney is training who now? If the style worked as advertised then wouldn't more boxers be using it? Or is it the fact that it's just so demanding and challenging only the best of the best can even begin to use it?
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Tucker fought a defensive fight and survived (as did Bonecrusher who fought a negative fight). Tyson would have preferred for them to take chances so he could destroy them.

    Bringing Lennox Lewis fight is silly but even Tyson won the first round in that.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Tucker fought a defensive fight and survived (as did Bonecrusher who fought a negative fight). Tyson would have preferred for them to take chances so he could destroy them.

    Bringing Lennox Lewis fight is silly but even Tyson won the first round in that.
    Why would Tucker fight defensively?



    Oh that's right.....HE HAD AN INJURED AND LATER BROKEN right hand....do you maybe, possibly think that had an effect on how he fought Tyson?
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Tucker fought a defensive fight and survived (as did Bonecrusher who fought a negative fight). Tyson would have preferred for them to take chances so he could destroy them.

    Bringing Lennox Lewis fight is silly but even Tyson won the first round in that.
    Why would Tucker fight defensively?



    Oh that's right.....HE HAD AN INJURED AND LATER BROKEN right hand....do you maybe, possibly think that had an effect on how he fought Tyson?
    Yes it did and what I said was it may have not worked in Tyson's favour because Tucker was forced to fight defensively and not open up.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Yes it did and what I said was it may have not worked in Tyson's favour because Tucker was forced to fight defensively and not open up.
    And I'm just betting that fighting defensively isn't what Tucker wanted to do either....call it a hunch. If Tucker had a healthy right hand to land a right cross with would he have been more or less likely to hurt, knock down, or knock out Mike Tyson?
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Stylistic nightmares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Disagree with a lot of those including Tyson v Douglas and Terry v Mullings.

    Tyson had beaten better fighters than Douglas like Tucker (who had beaten Buster already). Mike looked poor in that fight and almost unrecognisable from the fighter that blew away Berbick and Spinks.

    Terry Norris was shot by the time he lost to Mullings, peak Terry would destroy him.
    Agreed.

    @mikeod: anyone good/great puncher with a chin was a bad matchup for Hearns!

    Edit. Pavlik never should've fought Bhop.

    Hop can't beat fast paced fighters like Calzaghe. Joe beats him 3 outta 3. Albeit close in each fight.
    Last edited by SlimTrae; 06-09-2016 at 09:30 AM.
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

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