Freddie Roach great trainer: Overated, Underated or Truly Great?

[greynotsoold]

Between Futch and fame, Freddie worked at a gym in La Habra, CA, in the Mexican neighborhood there. Baby Joe Ruelas fought out of there, I believe, and an Asian guy that has (had?) a boxing technique website.
@El Kabong the Figueroa gym has Omar, a former 'world' champ and his brother, who is 9-0. It was put together with Golden Boy and PBC money.

[SlimTrae]

I'd imagine. Roach's health would have him retire soon. Unless he and PAC are poor hittin' 'em.

When Arum, then recently Roach state they'd like Manny to fight two more times...
I've read many a trainer asking their prized pupil to walk away...its time.
But never read a trainer saying...not now. C'mon, just two more....minimum.
IMO:

Despicable.

[El Kabong]

Good point .but here is another question--Isn't that standard when ANY trainer gets a winning fighter in the spotlight?

Example: Buddy Mcgirt fighter Tarver beats RJJ. Not only was he called trainer of the year...known fighters went his way as a result. Nate Campbell, Jameel McCline, Arturo Gatti.
Did he really improve these guys? Some new fighter at that time..Mike Anchondo I think...
Paulie Malinaggi came and left within 2 fights.

My point is that just like Roach ..with one success story Tarver for McGirt & Pac for Roach. ..is when their training stock...went up.
Who did Roach break out post Pac to validate his expertise? Khan? LOL!
I really liked what I saw of Lateef Kayode live...
Today he has shown no progress.

Im not saying Roach hasn't. . ..just saying, if so; whom else?

Ronnie Shields is another imo. Had a lot of known fighters after Tyson...but as soon as Juan Baby Bull Diaz got a title. ...his stock shot up. Very sought after. End result ..all his fighters got their asses torn of the henges.

I remember a lot of fighters flocking to Roach and not really getting much from him. Wladimir had him as a trainer/adviser for maybe a fight or two right before the Sanders loss but the style didn't suit Wlad I guess. Roach and Fritz Sdunek trained fairly similar styles actually...all out attack, fighting out of a crouch. But I think Sdunek would adapt his training to the individual fighters as Vitali his main guy didn't fight out of a crouch at all, quite the opposite.


McGirt and Shields have had their successes in waves...they'll help a few guys out and then suffer some losses and they never hang on to their talent. McGirt extended Gatti's career and got him a big money fight vs Floyd. Shields got a guy like Rocky Juarez to over achieve. But look at McGirt with Tarver in the fights after RJJ, where was the master tactician then? And similarly, when someone keeps a Roach fighter from giving 100% in attack they lose....JMM has taught us that lesson time and time again.

[denilson200]

Overrated ? No.

Roach trained the fighter (who in my opinion) came the closest to beating Floyd when he trained Oscar for only 1 fight. Oscar was able to get a decision on one judge despite being faded already in his career and Jr. was in his prime.

I do think too many fighters believe Roach is a miracle coach and by switching to him it means automatic success and that is so far from the truth.

They need to continue putting in their work in the gym and outside the gym to get the results.

People can say “Roach is not that good because he gets the finished product”

But is Tyronn Lue an average coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers because he gets the finished product?

Is coach of the Brazil soccer team an average coach because he gets the finished product ?

Also being a great coach/trainer is not about devising tactics, it's also to do with understanding people, keeping people happy. Making sure there are no beefs. This is even more so with boxers.

At one time Roach had Mike Tyson. Jame Toney. Johnny Tapia all at the same time, all under his wing, all training at his gym and all getting on.

I mean that must take some skill keeping those happy. He got good results out of all of them. But dealing with those 4 personalities in training and trying to keep them focused is a gruelling task.

I think he did great with Chavez and totally reborn Cotto in an offensive predator like his early pre-margs days until he ran into Canelo

How many fighters has Floyd sr taken to the top besides his son? The dude has never been successful with any other fighters unlike roach

I would rate Nacho Beristain and Nazim Richardson alongside Roach as the best trainers of their generation.

[Master]

I think Paulie Maliggnagi had a falling out with Buddy McGirt because he said he was only interested in money.

[J_Undisputed]

I think Paulie Maliggnagi had a falling out with Buddy McGirt because he said he was only interested in money.

Only interested in money? but I recall Buddy giving Paulie a free haircut in between rounds. Seriously though, it's totally possible... you dont hear much from buddy or his kid now a days.
As someone mentioned up above, his stock shot up like a rocket after tarver knocked out roy and people totally ignored the perfect storm of things that contributed to that and just credited Buddy with plan that turned tarver from crackhead to champion. Mcgirt had a hard on for roy for years and claimed he always had the plan to beat roy. Roy Dropping that weight and the slippage in skills. Tarver being a late bloomer and Roy fading so rapidly because his style was pivotal on his speed and reflexes rather than the fundamentals. Buddy looked like a genius because noone attributed it to being in the right place at the right time.

[Kirkland Laing]

Roach wasn't lucky to get all those top fighters. The top fighters can go to anybody they want, no trainer is going to turn down 10% of ongoing million/multimillion purses. Fighters go to him because he's got a track record of improving upcoming fighters and champions and of having the right gameplan to win fights.

There's no guarantee that just because he worked under Futch he was going to do anything. How many other guys worked under Futch or Dundee or any of the other old school top trainers and got nowhere?

There's no guarantee that Somodio or whoever has worked under Roach is going to do anything either. You've either got it or you haven't.

Good point .but here is another question--Isn't that standard when ANY trainer gets a winning fighter in the spotlight?

Example: Buddy Mcgirt fighter Tarver beats RJJ. Not only was he called trainer of the year...known fighters went his way as a result. Nate Campbell, Jameel McCline, Arturo Gatti.
Did he really improve these guys? Some new fighter at that time..Mike Anchondo I think...
Paulie Malinaggi came and left within 2 fights.

My point is that just like Roach ..with one success story Tarver for McGirt & Pac for Roach. ..is when their training stock...went up.
Who did Roach break out post Pac to validate his expertise? Khan? LOL!
I really liked what I saw of Lateef Kayode live...
Today he has shown no progress.

Im not saying Roach hasn't. . ..just saying, if so; whom else?

Ronnie Shields is another imo. Had a lot of known fighters after Tyson...but as soon as Juan Baby Bull Diaz got a title. ...his stock shot up. Very sought after. End result ..all his fighters got their asses torn of the henges.

Buddy McGirt went from hero to zero in the shortest time. One minute he was flavour of the month and everybody wanted him to train them, the next minute he'd been "exposed" and was dogshit. I think fighters make trainers rather than the other way round but some trainers can definitely add levels to prospects or established champions and Roach's track record over his long career says he's one of those guys if not the best.

Put it this way, if you were an upcoming fighter like Valdez Junior who fought the other night and were being viewed as a potential PPV superstar and you were in the market for a new trainer, who would you go to? I know who I'd pick.

[SlimTrae]

There is definitely a chemistry factor to take into account. So there are probably some fighters Roach couldn't help anymore than say Manny Steward with Jermain Taylor. Horrible team. Or Mayweather Sr. and Hatton.

I do think that Lateef Kayode has potential and Freddie has failed to bring it out.
Maybe his biggest failure is trying to work with too many fighters at the same time.

Great posts all around.

[El Kabong]

There is definitely a chemistry factor to take into account. So there are probably some fighters Roach couldn't help anymore than say Manny Steward with Jermain Taylor. Horrible team. Or Mayweather Sr. and Hatton.

I do think that Lateef Kayode has potential and Freddie has failed to bring it out.
Maybe his biggest failure is trying to work with too many fighters at the same time.

Great posts all around.

I think Jermain Taylor was a lot like Chad Dawson....both guys had natural talent and ability, they achieved some great things, but they failed to address their shortcomings and it caught up with them. They did not take the extra steps to become true greats of the sport. Great fighters adapt and if you have a trainer that you do not listen to then what good is he? He could be the best trainer ever but if the fighter does not listen there's nothing that can be done.

Roach has surely come across a few of those guys in his career, but that's the life of a top tier trainer

[SlimTrae]

There is definitely a chemistry factor to take into account. So there are probably some fighters Roach couldn't help anymore than say Manny Steward with Jermain Taylor. Horrible team. Or Mayweather Sr. and Hatton.

I do think that Lateef Kayode has potential and Freddie has failed to bring it out.
Maybe his biggest failure is trying to work with too many fighters at the same time.

Great posts all around.

I think Jermain Taylor was a lot like Chad Dawson....both guys had natural talent and ability, they achieved some great things, but they failed to address their shortcomings and it caught up with them. They did not take the extra steps to become true greats of the sport. Great fighters adapt and if you have a trainer that you do not listen to then what good is he? He could be the best trainer ever but if the fighter does not listen there's nothing that can be done.

Roach has surely come across a few of those guys in his career, but that's the life of a top tier trainer

Taylor is an interesting subject. I agree he didn't live up to expectations but I also think he may have had a stamina issue.
Dawson really saddens me. As you stated he totally failed to listen to any of his trainers.
...Spent some time with Chad at the IBHOF, just a humble guy. Even laughed a bit. To see him without a belt...gotta hold him accountable first.