The Brexit Thread

[Master]

That was a good speech but still disagree but as long as they voted for article 50 then I am fine with them. The real negotiations start now.

[Beanz]

That was a good speech but still disagree but as long as they voted for article 50 then I am fine with them. The real negotiations start now.

That is how a democracy works. I have friends who voted for Brexit but the truth is that the very same remote abuse of power and machinations that people hated from the EU are still there with the Tories. They are not about to hand any control back to the British people they will use it as an excuse to divide further and have already given away much of that in bending over for America. Immigration the real issue may even go up but instead of Europeans with which we have traded, lived and bred with for thousands of years it will be those from further afeild with less in common. The weird thing is all the Yanks who are often descended from Europeans being so hostile towards Europe with all that it continues to give the world.

[Gandalf]

I am also still very much pro Brexit, but I'm discouraged by how it seems to be turning people more right wing. I think power is more easily changed with a smaller system and you obviously cannot let in everyone but people just don't seem to be very nice with this Trump/Brexit mentality. Instead of people turning towards a hopeful revolution with Corbyn it seems to be empowering dark forces who seem to relish selfishness, chaos and Thatcherism. I don't think I relate to it. It is not the purity that I was hoping for.

[Master]

That was a good speech but still disagree but as long as they voted for article 50 then I am fine with them. The real negotiations start now.

That is how a democracy works. I have friends who voted for Brexit but the truth is that the very same remote abuse of power and machinations that people hated from the EU are still there with the Tories. They are not about to hand any control back to the British people they will use it as an excuse to divide further and have already given away much of that in bending over for America. Immigration the real issue may even go up but instead of Europeans with which we have traded, lived and bred with for thousands of years it will be those from further afeild with less in common. The weird thing is all the Yanks who are often descended from Europeans being so hostile towards Europe with all that it continues to give the world.

We traded with Europe without the EU and we can get an amicable agreement with them within 2 years. Divorce is messy but can be done with all parties happy.

The rise in hate crime and right wing is not good and has brought out the worst in people.

[Beanz]

That was a good speech but still disagree but as long as they voted for article 50 then I am fine with them. The real negotiations start now.

That is how a democracy works. I have friends who voted for Brexit but the truth is that the very same remote abuse of power and machinations that people hated from the EU are still there with the Tories. They are not about to hand any control back to the British people they will use it as an excuse to divide further and have already given away much of that in bending over for America. Immigration the real issue may even go up but instead of Europeans with which we have traded, lived and bred with for thousands of years it will be those from further afeild with less in common. The weird thing is all the Yanks who are often descended from Europeans being so hostile towards Europe with all that it continues to give the world.

We traded with Europe without the EU and we can get an amicable agreement with them within 2 years. Divorce is messy but can be done with all parties happy.

The rise in hate crime and right wing is not good and has brought out the worst in people.

I hope so but like you say it will never be on the same good terms as we had and so financially we will suffer. This desire to be closer to America than France, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands, Italy , Sweden, etc is also a bit weird. These are where we have come from and what we have most in common, with not America which is still in it's infancy. Universities, Scientists etc are overwhelmingly for remaining and this is ignored as though nothing good ever came out of the EU. Whatever is wrong with the bureaucratic distance of the institution it has actually been crucial in fostering new understandings. It has helped so much to advance knowledge and cooperation. On a personal level for my family the impact is huge but all the pro Brexit people seem to be worried about is how it supposedly affects jobs, though tellingly, hardly ever their own jobs. So my half brothers and sisters Mother is German and has helped move the field she works in forward in this country, and of course their grandparents, uncles etc are in Germany.There are thousands of families like this in the UK whose travel arrangements, pensions etc will now be thrown into chaos. They also spent a long time growing up in Cyprus, and my younger half brother still carries out his academic work there. His partner is from Belgium, but she is doing her masters here, while he is doing his PHD in Cyprus. This helps all countries involved but the practicalities of things like that happening after Brexit are incredibly complicated and make it unlikely.

I get the dangers of multinational corporations and super governments but we are being persuaded that Isolationism is some kind of positive and feasible way to live in a modern interconnected world. Well it isn't. That is dreaming and being airy fairy. The British Empire has gone and throwing our weight around will not work anymore. This must be the first time we have willingly left somewhere without being revolted against by the natives that we oppressed. It's 2017 and people want to return to 1817.

[Gandalf]

There is no reason why Britain cannot be a successful nation on its own terms though. Other small nations do it very well. Iceland looks like a perfect model and they were saddled with overseas debt and the people resisted and the system evolved for the betterment of the people there. In a way I really wish Greece would do the same as they are only ever going to be slaves in the EU. Somehow the people still have faith in the EU, but the inability to control their own finances is crippling them. The UK still has its own currency and as a smaller country it can set the course it wants. However, in saying that people need to understand that a Tory led financialist/neo liberal system is only going to destroy the country in the long run. If people would just see past the hate and give Corbyn a chance, then progress could be made. There is a lot of money there, but it is in the hands of a few. The UK is a country that historically has been able to innovate too and already has a high base when it comes to quality of learning and research. The only reason the UK wouldn't continue to do well in these areas is if it decides to stop funding them. The UK has allowed the American model to infiltrate which has caused great harm and I do actually take it quite personally as well as I feel I am of the generation that really started to see the fallout of neo-liberal BS. It's about time things changed. I like these kids that are squatting in empty mansions in London, I like Bitcoin, I like people giving a middle finger to the system. Just in a way that can make a difference, that's why I am pro Brexit and want a political change. Let immigration go up when you are growing and things are more settled and just do it on your own terms so that ordinary people are not threatened.

[brocktonblockbust]

How is the UK ON ITS OWN EQUAL TO "throwing its weight around"?/ "airy fairy"? This is all just random, unsubstantiated suspicions.

[vidgil]

I haven't been following this in quite a while, so tell me has Harry Styles been voted out of One Direction yet or is he staying?

[Dark Lord Al]

Swing and a miss.

[Dia bando]

I think the single market is a good thing but it comes at a price.!
Basically you loose your control over your borders and you are TOLD who you will take in as so called refugees.
People were pissed off they had enough and voted to leave simple.
Really all the remain voter's are bitter and twisted, calling for a new vote bollocks as Al puts it stop moaning get on with it.

[Master]

There will not be another vote. What they are working on is exactly what the break will look like.

[Beanz]

I think the single market is a good thing but it comes at a price.!Basically you loose your control over your borders and you are TOLD who you will take in as so called refugees.People were pissed off they had enough and voted to leave simple.Really all the remain voter's are bitter and twisted, calling for a new vote bollocks as Al puts it stop moaning get on with it.

With all the best will in the world it's not the remain voters that are bitter and twisted. The vote has happened and people are not asking for a revote but rather asking what the realities and details are going to be. There was it has turned out lies on.bith side and the government have proved that they are intent on using it as a mandate to implement changes even Brexit voters never envisaged.The most telling thing is the Brexit voters insisting that the referendum result means that they have won and so everyone else should shut up. Displaying a clear misunderstanding of what democracy actually means.You voted leave after being told the NHS would actually get a huge increase in funds and yet it turns out it will not, and will actually face cuts? That sound like democracy? Immigration cuts, which is what it is really about will mean less money and less skilled people from Europe coming in and a huge increase from outside Europe, the type of immigration most Brexiteers are worried about.So don't pretend that it's some kind if simplistic panacea and use it as an excuse to try and force everyone else to line up behind Tory ideology.

[Gandalf]

The argument that you will need people from abroad to do the work needed is an argument that I really do not understand. British people can do most of the work needed to maintain a healthy and vibrant country. Asides from language teachers or cooks or things like that I am not sure who else you would need. Make the courses, train up the workers and just get on with it. Britain needs a bit more self confidence, all these doubts about being able to function with only British nurses etc. There are no British people working in hotels. They should at least have a quota of British staff. It is inverse xenophobia.

[Master]

The argument that you will need people from abroad to do the work needed is an argument that I really do not understand. British people can do most of the work needed to maintain a healthy and vibrant country. Asides from language teachers or cooks or things like that I am not sure who else you would need. Make the courses, train up the workers and just get on with it. Britain needs a bit more self confidence, all these doubts about being able to function with only British nurses etc. There are no British people working in hotels. They should at least have a quota of British staff. It is inverse xenophobia.

A lot of British people do not take those jobs in hotels/nursing homes etc because they see it beneath them.

[Beanz]

The argument that you will need people from abroad to do the work needed is an argument that I really do not understand. British people can do most of the work needed to maintain a healthy and vibrant country. Asides from language teachers or cooks or things like that I am not sure who else you would need. Make the courses, train up the workers and just get on with it. Britain needs a bit more self confidence, all these doubts about being able to function with only British nurses etc. There are no British people working in hotels. They should at least have a quota of British staff. It is inverse xenophobia.

um.. i sense a slight exaggeration While in London there are an awful lot of European workers in Hotels etc that is not the picture elsewhere. I don't really understand where your love of excluded Europeans who can clearly do the job as well if not better than Brits comes from. They are not taking your Job and you could do your Job here. Nobody complains about French chefs working in kitchens but suddenly Polish dentists, despite our chronic lack of them , became the anti-christ.
When you have such a problem with National anthems, Empire, what you would see as stupid small minded Patriotism, I have always found it puzzling that you should be so incensed by Europeans taking advantage of the same freedoms to travel and work that we were offered. It's seems incredibly petty that the place of someone's birth should be so offensive to people when the jobs a lot of Europeans are doing are ones that the British have no interest in. It's the exact same argument as the anti-boxing crowd who say because i don't like It and I would not do it or watch It I want it banned. It is beyond petty. NOBODY has posted here with an example of losing their job because someone from abroad came and too it. Even the unskilled argument is hugely flawed and based on avarice and reverse snobishness. So while it is fine for qualified people like yourself and Brockton to want to better themselves, broaden their education and earn more money by working outside of their country, when unskilled people do the same thing IN EUROPE WHERE THE FREEDOM TO WORK IS EXTENDED TO ALL MEMBER COUNTRIES they are suddenly parasites. If they are from a poorer country then it is even harder for them to get off their backsides and travel here using the same initiative that drew the immigrants who built the states to America, and yet... they are seen as a problem not the British who decide not to avail themselves of the same opportunities and go and work in Europe. Because people themselves would not choose to do it they seem to begrudge and look down there noses at people who work as hard as them and have had to leave their families and homes to do so.


People love Phillipino nurses, Indians make brilliant surgeons and the best computer scientists, that is the way the world is. What is the problem when there are plenty of course for nursing, medicine etc but Brits just don't take up that opportunity in large numbers. It is not the fault of those who do want to work in those professions. It is the British way. We are an island and we blame everything on what we call outsiders and invaders when for hundreds of years we forced countries all over the world to try and act like us and adopt our often stupid customs and morally questionable principles. French was the official language here, Glasgow has always been full of Italians, Saint Patrick was English, George and the Dragon are Turkish, the Irish, Jews and Chinese have been here for hundreds of years. Are we just living in some kind of alt history invented by idiots in which they think that we can go back to a world that never existed because they don't like equality and want some kind of advantage over people who are made up of the same DNA as them ?


I sense you may just be so insistent on flying against perceptions that you have adopted the stance to be more bloody minded and unpredictable.