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Thread: The Brexit Thread

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  1. #631
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    The reason why there was no general election was because it was a ruse by Boris.

    Boris had just lost a vote that he could not have a No Deal Brexit this handed power back to parliament, he kicked out 21 of his own MP’s in anger and thereby lost even more power. Corbyn led an alliance in opposition and the only reason Boris offered an election was to force a no deal Brexit which would have naturally happened as it would have gone over 31st October. Boris lost that vote too. Now Boris is frantically trying to make a deal but he has no chance and so is running down the clock hoping to annoy the EU to not grant the extension that he does not want to do.
    This is like ordering pizza in a large group

    "I want pepperoni!" ...."I want sausage!"...."I'm vegetarian so I just want veggies!" ....."I'm vegan, I don't want pizza at all I just want something which doesn't have any animal products that is sustainable and then we all need to huddle together to listen to my slam poetry!"


    Boris' job is to secure Brexit, that's all. What kind of Brexit deals do these leaders propose? Are they being realistic or spiteful? Are there not Remainers still in Parliament?
    Yes Boris should secure a Brexit deal. Labour have proposed a 6 point deal from the start and May only started looking at that when her deal failed. The Labour deal is realistic and could work as they have collaborated with EU. Yes there are remainers in all parties but at least Labour still wants to honour the vote. Liberals do not. This is a Tory mess from the start and they have done nothing to fix it. A no deal Brexit is not a fix, it is a start to a poor deal.

    OK then will this 6 point deal be found acceptable by the EU? If not, then what?

    Do you think that some Remainers might be asking for too much or too little in the hopes it keeps a deal from happening and that Britain just reverses course? Seems to be what the LibDems are actively hoping for.



    What do you think of the LibDems cozying up to Guy Verhofstadt? Seems as though they're thinking about what is best for the EU as opposed to what is best for the UK.
    I think Labours proposal has a better chance of being accepted by EU as they had been discussing it with the organisations in Europe.

    The reality is May could have got her deal through if she had her majority in parliament and did not call that unnecessary general election that she did not bother to turn up to.

    If Labour or Tory have a majority they will get a deal through parliament.

    Yes there are remainers but I believe they did want to deliver the referendum result otherwise they would have undermined everything that they stand for.

    They have not delivered because they do not have a majority in parliament. The longer the delay the louder the remainers have become until we have the Liberals who will not honour the result.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I think Labours proposal has a better chance of being accepted by EU as they had been discussing it with the organisations in Europe.

    The reality is May could have got her deal through if she had her majority in parliament and did not call that unnecessary general election that she did not bother to turn up to.

    If Labour or Tory have a majority they will get a deal through parliament.

    Yes there are remainers but I believe they did want to deliver the referendum result otherwise they would have undermined everything that they stand for.

    They have not delivered because they do not have a majority in parliament. The longer the delay the louder the remainers have become until we have the Liberals who will not honour the result.
    I would imagine that to be the case, that Labour would offer terms more acceptable to the EU, but I'd also think Labour would be in the group not really wanting to leave ergo my questions about them sandbagging the process. I mean I wouldn't be shocked if they did, I'd be more shocked if they didn't.

    Theresa May's poor little black heart simply wasn't IN Brexit at all, she too wished to remain. I think Boris might be a little be more genuine in wanting to achieve the deal, but he's also such an oaf that he could bumble his way into remain and perhaps that is what certain people are hoping for.

    Well I hope for the safety and security of your nation the voice and will of the people is realized by those in power....they are only in power on behalf of representing the populace.

    You're a better man than I for trusting politicians these days. Seems like the world is overrun with sore losers.


    What the LibDems are doing seems very uncouth to me.



    Many thanks for responding to me and without a smidge of personal attacks or sarcasm or vitriol......wow, are you human? Don't you know what a horrible person I'm reported to be?!?!?!
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Boris is an opportunist who loves Europe, he only chose Brexit at the last minute, only to spite Cameron and stand out. He would have won the leadership but Gove stabbed him in the back and we got May.

    Trust me, Teresa May did want to get a deal as her career was on the line and she personally took charge of the deal but it was too little too late.

    The whole process has been a mitigating disaster and shows how inept this government is.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Boris is an opportunist who loves Europe, he only chose Brexit at the last minute, only to spite Cameron and stand out. He would have won the leadership but Gove stabbed him in the back and we got May.

    Trust me, Teresa May did want to get a deal as her career was on the line and she personally took charge of the deal but it was too little too late.

    The whole process has been a mitigating disaster and shows how inept this government is.
    Fair enough, I think she was forced to be a Brexiteer though, that wasn't in her heart. As evidenced by....



    Yeah it hasn't been handled well. I think had Remain won, then any Brexit factions would just be waited out and drowned out by the establishment politicians. They would have been relegated to outsider parties like UKIP and Brexit Party and they'd wither on the vine as their cause would have already been lost.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread



    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post


    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
    Mental.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post


    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
    Mental.
    Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

    So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

    "and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

    I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

    It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

    Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

    I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

    That is truly mental.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post


    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
    Mental.
    Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

    So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

    "and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

    I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

    It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

    Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

    I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

    That is truly mental.
    What is dishonest about arguing that Britain should be operating on a national state level with no orders coming from a command beyond the country? How is arguing for what most countries in the world have extreme? On the contrary, I consider you an absolute extremist and a traitor to your country. David Starkey would probably argue as much too. How arrogant to enforce a system on a populace without their consent and to then defend it? That is outrageous.

    The tyranny of the majority? You mean the most democratic way of running things which is where a referendum actually gets to determine the path of the country. Do you see me calling for a new Scottish referendum? You have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. You are more interested in self interested things rather than the purity of democracy. Lyle is entitled to his view. It is not as though you can shut up about Donald Trump or America so do not be such a brazen hypocrite. Good on Lyle for agreeing with the majority.

    At the end of the day you have declared yourself a European, whilst the majority of people see themselves as British more than anything else. I have never been part of this European project and I never will be. It is true that all we hear from you is about how much of your family does not live in the UK and how for you it is about keeping those avenues open. Like I say though, if your family wants to live overseas, then they can. Nobody is stopping them. It is you being histrionic about medicine when that is very unlikely there will be shortages.

    Lyle is also right to point out the 'self loathing'. You appear to be an obvious case in point. You have absolutely zero faith in Britain as an independent functioning nation. It is amazing really. Starkey would argue that you hate Britain and would put you in that snobbish class that looks down on cashiers as you are too arty to work like anyone else. They should serve you, but you don't want to be one.

    Sweden has destroyed itself as a country. I mean, do you not recognize that it has done so through a a lack of pride in who they are? Britain has done the same and we shouldn't feel bad about anything, but instead stand firm and show the rest of Europe what it means to be disciplined and strong. It is alright for you in homogeneous Plymouth, but you are so far away from what others are seeing. You are as out of touch as me except I do pay close attention of course, but not through your lefty clap trap. You are even being advised not to integrate immigrants as it will upset them. Why are you letting them in then? And you know which groups use the most welfare right?

    Extreme? Hmm. Sensible border policies, national self respect and not wanting a super state akin to the USSR is now extreme? I would argue the opposite and that you are extreme. A zealot. An ideologue. Someone who never cedes an argument. Never alters his thinking. Never alters course. An extremist is what you are.

    Culture matters and demographics matter and changes to communities matter. My own perspective and experience is that when these things are done carefully the impact is minimal. When you go crazy as the UK has, then you end up with problems. That is unfortunate, but the result of genuine extremism that you indeed have supported.

    If you don't want to hear things that upset you, then go away. Nobody cares about your family or Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. It is neither here nor there with anybody. It is simply a discussion about national self determination and that seems to really send you over the deep end and people disagree with you. You are a rude, vulgar and horrible old man.

    Independence, self determination, and moderation are not extremist values in the slightest. They are tenets of moral and social conservatism.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post


    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
    I had no idea your army of European siblings were skinny fuckers either. Interesting. Remainers think they are superior. Remember that. "You are all hoodwinked, all being manipulated by lies, too stupid for your own good, etc etc." Condescending? Much?

    Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Beanz you've obviously had some wires crossed in my explaining about what a Democracy is as a system of government vs what a Democratic action is such as voting on a referendum. I apologize for any confusion.

    As for Corbyn



    "And they will get the chance for a public vote under a Labour government between REMAIN and a credible option which we will negotiate with the European Union"



    ....so it's Remain then
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post


    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
    Mental.
    Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

    So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

    "and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

    I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

    It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

    Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

    I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

    That is truly mental.
    What is dishonest about arguing that Britain should be operating on a national state level with no orders coming from a command beyond the country? How is arguing for what most countries in the world have extreme? On the contrary, I consider you an absolute extremist and a traitor to your country. David Starkey would probably argue as much too. How arrogant to enforce a system on a populace without their consent and to then defend it? That is outrageous.

    The tyranny of the majority? You mean the most democratic way of running things which is where a referendum actually gets to determine the path of the country. Do you see me calling for a new Scottish referendum? You have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. You are more interested in self interested things rather than the purity of democracy. Lyle is entitled to his view. It is not as though you can shut up about Donald Trump or America so do not be such a brazen hypocrite. Good on Lyle for agreeing with the majority.

    At the end of the day you have declared yourself a European, whilst the majority of people see themselves as British more than anything else. I have never been part of this European project and I never will be. It is true that all we hear from you is about how much of your family does not live in the UK and how for you it is about keeping those avenues open. Like I say though, if your family wants to live overseas, then they can. Nobody is stopping them. It is you being histrionic about medicine when that is very unlikely there will be shortages.

    Lyle is also right to point out the 'self loathing'. You appear to be an obvious case in point. You have absolutely zero faith in Britain as an independent functioning nation. It is amazing really. Starkey would argue that you hate Britain and would put you in that snobbish class that looks down on cashiers as you are too arty to work like anyone else. They should serve you, but you don't want to be one.

    Sweden has destroyed itself as a country. I mean, do you not recognize that it has done so through a a lack of pride in who they are? Britain has done the same and we shouldn't feel bad about anything, but instead stand firm and show the rest of Europe what it means to be disciplined and strong. It is alright for you in homogeneous Plymouth, but you are so far away from what others are seeing. You are as out of touch as me except I do pay close attention of course, but not through your lefty clap trap. You are even being advised not to integrate immigrants as it will upset them. Why are you letting them in then? And you know which groups use the most welfare right?

    Extreme? Hmm. Sensible border policies, national self respect and not wanting a super state akin to the USSR is now extreme? I would argue the opposite and that you are extreme. A zealot. An ideologue. Someone who never cedes an argument. Never alters his thinking. Never alters course. An extremist is what you are.

    Culture matters and demographics matter and changes to communities matter. My own perspective and experience is that when these things are done carefully the impact is minimal. When you go crazy as the UK has, then you end up with problems. That is unfortunate, but the result of genuine extremism that you indeed have supported.

    If you don't want to hear things that upset you, then go away. Nobody cares about your family or Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. It is neither here nor there with anybody. It is simply a discussion about national self determination and that seems to really send you over the deep end and people disagree with you. You are a rude, vulgar and horrible old man.

    Independence, self determination, and moderation are not extremist values in the slightest. They are tenets of moral and social conservatism.
    Beaner that quote “tyranny of the majority” was used by Ben Franklin, or one of the founding fathers, it was just used in context not throwing democracy in the trash. It could have been Madison I can’t remember I need to google it.
    Last edited by walrus; 09-18-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.
    Why is he even being entertained? The guy has insulted Brits here for years with his condescending rubbish and his loud trousers. Are you suggesting that actually trying to educate him about what being British actually means is like he suggests 'being self loathing"? It is astonishing how his and Gandalf's racist bollocks is just accepted. He is incredibly patronizing and ill informed and I am doing the fuckwit a favour. He is not just sceptical he is paranoid and gullible in the way some people are at 17 years old, but not as adults. It is embarrassing reading his crap on his behalf.

    It really is crazy how two people who don't live here seem to think they have the right to dictate how others in the UK should think, how they should act, how they should think of themselves , what there ethnic makeup should be before they are prepared to accept you as an Englishman or a Brit. The disdain for Britain from the pair of them pours out of their posting history. They don't give a shit about our country. Until three years ago they never mentioned the EU and now here they are getting all high and mighty demanding what should happen in a country neither of them live in.

    It is more than mental, it shows what control freaks the pair are. They have to dominate the conversation even when it does not concern them.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post


    1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
    2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
    3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
    4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

    A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

    The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.
    Mental.
    Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

    So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

    "and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

    I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

    It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

    Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

    I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

    That is truly mental.
    What is dishonest about arguing that Britain should be operating on a national state level with no orders coming from a command beyond the country? How is arguing for what most countries in the world have extreme? On the contrary, I consider you an absolute extremist and a traitor to your country. David Starkey would probably argue as much too. How arrogant to enforce a system on a populace without their consent and to then defend it? That is outrageous.

    The tyranny of the majority? You mean the most democratic way of running things which is where a referendum actually gets to determine the path of the country. Do you see me calling for a new Scottish referendum? You have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. You are more interested in self interested things rather than the purity of democracy. Lyle is entitled to his view. It is not as though you can shut up about Donald Trump or America so do not be such a brazen hypocrite. Good on Lyle for agreeing with the majority.

    At the end of the day you have declared yourself a European, whilst the majority of people see themselves as British more than anything else. I have never been part of this European project and I never will be. It is true that all we hear from you is about how much of your family does not live in the UK and how for you it is about keeping those avenues open. Like I say though, if your family wants to live overseas, then they can. Nobody is stopping them. It is you being histrionic about medicine when that is very unlikely there will be shortages.

    Lyle is also right to point out the 'self loathing'. You appear to be an obvious case in point. You have absolutely zero faith in Britain as an independent functioning nation. It is amazing really. Starkey would argue that you hate Britain and would put you in that snobbish class that looks down on cashiers as you are too arty to work like anyone else. They should serve you, but you don't want to be one.

    Sweden has destroyed itself as a country. I mean, do you not recognize that it has done so through a a lack of pride in who they are? Britain has done the same and we shouldn't feel bad about anything, but instead stand firm and show the rest of Europe what it means to be disciplined and strong. It is alright for you in homogeneous Plymouth, but you are so far away from what others are seeing. You are as out of touch as me except I do pay close attention of course, but not through your lefty clap trap. You are even being advised not to integrate immigrants as it will upset them. Why are you letting them in then? And you know which groups use the most welfare right?

    Extreme? Hmm. Sensible border policies, national self respect and not wanting a super state akin to the USSR is now extreme? I would argue the opposite and that you are extreme. A zealot. An ideologue. Someone who never cedes an argument. Never alters his thinking. Never alters course. An extremist is what you are.

    Culture matters and demographics matter and changes to communities matter. My own perspective and experience is that when these things are done carefully the impact is minimal. When you go crazy as the UK has, then you end up with problems. That is unfortunate, but the result of genuine extremism that you indeed have supported.

    If you don't want to hear things that upset you, then go away. Nobody cares about your family or Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. It is neither here nor there with anybody. It is simply a discussion about national self determination and that seems to really send you over the deep end and people disagree with you. You are a rude, vulgar and horrible old man.

    Independence, self determination, and moderation are not extremist values in the slightest. They are tenets of moral and social conservatism.
    Beaner that quote “tyranny of the majority” was used by Ben Franklin, or one of the founding fathers, it was just used in context not throwing democracy in the trash. It could have been Madison I can’t remember I need to google it.
    El Kabong used it and I was quoting him.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    GANDALF

    Britain does operate on a state level, but if it were not for several EU interventions we would be far worse off. Workers rights, the environment, Food safety and Quality etc. You seem to be suggesting that your rabid night time fantasies of an EU Fascist State ordering the Tories to privatise everything is a fact. It isn't. It is just another mealy mouth apology from a cowardly cunt that cannot bring himself to admit he turned his back on his own country years ago. I live here mate. I contribute to this country and brought my family up here. It wasn't the EU that sold off the housing stock or cut police numbers or started to privatise the NHS that was your crew. The people even now you are actively endorsing as they smash our country up and divide the spoils among themselves.

    The tyranny of the majority is what El Kabong said not me. This is what I mean about you being a lying cunt. Go back to the opening post in this thread that I started and tell me where i said that I did not respect the will of the people. I have never said that. You are forced to invent that position to justify your extremist stance.

    Nobody forced you to leave this country as an economic migrant. Nobody is forcing you to live alone in a city away from your wife so that you only have to work half days. You have this massive bee in your bonnet with anyone who does what you either cannot or choose not to do. That is your problem. I have certainly done my fair share of manual and unskilled jobs in my working life but I am not about to apologise for not doing them now as I approach my 50's. I didn't win the lottery mate, I worked hard to do what I do. Why would I choose to work as a cashier when i earn what they do in a day in an hour? That would be daft. It does not mean I look down on people who do any kind of job, that is your invention, a way to make yourself feel superior. The same as the race thing which poisons your entire outlook. You think you are better than people based on where two of their grandparents were born? or more British? you are an insecure joke mate.
    You want to claim that I am both a traitor to Britain for suggesting that there is nothing wrong with immigrant and homogenized communities living alongside each other and then at the same time claim I have no experience of helping immigrants to integrate or interacting with people of different ethnicies. You even claimed that me having an Asian step mother for 30+ years didn't count as knowing anything about Asians

    Here you are lecturing me again for the hundredth time about how culture matters whilst living in South Korea. Lecturing me about how communities matter...from South Korea. You are now even joining El Kabong in suggesting that I am somehow self loathing for celebrating, documenting and even helping to preserve, archive, fund raise on behalf of British culture and British history and British Art and British Music and the indigenous languages of Britain and British Theatre ...from yes...you guessed it ..South Korea.

    It is insane how you think your new religion of social conservatism means fuck all when you do not practice a word you preach.

    I fucking love not only my country but all the communities and individuals that make it what it is. I don't need the permission of two opinionated twats on a forum to feel good about where I live that is why I live here. Stop slagging our country off. If you don't recognise it or respect it just like you have dissed Sweden and everywhere else you do not think follows your PERSONAL rules then fuck off and stay where you are. I am pretty sure neither country would miss anyone so negative and dismissive of it's achievements and living history.

    The world does not stop just because you pair want to wrap everything in moth balls.

    You are a pair of slipper wearing old farts.

    You need to get out more.
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