The Brexit Thread

[TitoFan]

I may have posted once on this thread, as it is basically a UK issue, and I'm neither too knowledgeable about it, or directly affected by it.

But it's a serious enough issue that it transcends the UK and into the global picture (or at least the European one).

To my limited knowledge, the reasons for the idea of Brexit were mainly reasons of sovereignty and concerns about immigration. Probably more reasons... but those seem like the main ones. By all accounts, the UK's economy has suffered a bit since Brexit took effect, which is now probably causing some second-guessing by those who actually voted. I don't know.

Although not the same thing, I am aware of similar sentiments in the U.S., where a significant portion of people in some States favor secession from the Union. Not sure that will ever happen... but it would have humongous ramifications if it did.

Point is... whenever you have huge variations of peoples and cultures under one central government/ regulatory body... you're gonna have resentments.

[Primo Carnera]

I may we’ll have missed that @Master voted to leave whilst being a Labour voter , which in itself is a very rare mix.
But my point from the outset was that you blame the tories, whilst not acknowledging the public’s part in this for voting for something that they were advised by a high majority across the parties not to vote for.
And then I asked how would you have negotiated Brexit any differently, which you promptly chose to ignore.
The reason I asked that is because once the vote has happened to leave, it would be an impossible task for any government, whether Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, to get a fair exit agreement from the EU.

I think anyone could have done better, even the monster raving loony party. The same with Covid. Johnson's bunch of cronies were disasterous and thousands died neeedlessly and billions of pounds( ....yes fucking billions) went into the pockets of their chums. These tories are disaster capitalists. They literally gambled on our economy tanking so that they could profit from misery of a botched Brexit. No other government of any political persuasion would have ever done that.

Like I said before, I am no apologist for the Tories and I’m fully aware of some of the absolutely disgusting shit they’ve presided over.
But we’re talking about Brexit here.and I firmly believe that it was always going to be nigh on impossible to get a fair “divorce” from the EU for any party to attempt to get.
And because the public voted for it, they/we have to accept some of the blame.
All this started with Master blaming the Tories because they shouldn’t have had a referendum. But he voted to leave, so why worry?
If his beef is the way they’ve dealt with it, I merely ask what He, You or any other party could/should have done differently ON BREXIT. The pandemic is a whole nother story.

[Beanz]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

[Primo Carnera]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

We will never know how successful Corbyn’s version would have been or more importantly how much the EU would’ve moved the goalposts in order to shaft and punish the U.K. for daring to leave the EU. Digging their heels in for one last payday.
And yes Cornwall benefited from EU money , but this was in return for restricting the fishermen’s ability to earn a living by imposing ridiculous fishing borders and unfair Quotas on them whilst allowing European fishing boats to fill their boots and work to a very different set of rules.
How can it be for example, that French and Spanish fishermen can pillage U.K. waters and have way more generous quotas to work to ? It’s fucking disgusting to be honest, and that is why 90% of the Cornish fishing industry voted for Brexit.
They were fucking imprisoned in their own waters while EU boats cashed in.

[Beanz]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

We will never know how successful Corbyn’s version would have been or more importantly how much the EU would’ve moved the goalposts in order to shaft and punish the U.K. for daring to leave the EU. Digging their heels in for one last payday.
And yes Cornwall benefited from EU money , but this was in return for restricting the fishermen’s ability to earn a living by imposing ridiculous fishing borders and unfair Quotas on them whilst allowing European fishing boats to fill their boots and work to a very different set of rules.
How can it be for example, that French and Spanish fishermen can pillage U.K. waters and have way more generous quotas to work to ? It’s fucking disgusting to be honest, and that is why 90% of the Cornish fishing industry voted for Brexit.
They were fucking imprisoned in their own waters while EU boats cashed in.

That is just the lie you have been sold. Farage and the other bullshitters lies worked even on someone who doesn't see himself as British like yourself. Farage never even turned up to any meetings at the EU to fight for more sustainable fishing rights for British fishermen. He used to claim it was 80% caught by the EU fishermen as opposed to 20% by Brits. The reality is much closer to 56% EU and 44% UK. The whole idea of fish being 'ours' is reductive nonsense anyway, the same as the invasive species bullshit as though animals should have passports etc. Crackers.

The Cornish EU money had absolutely nothing to do with fishing rights. It was to do with preserving Brittonic languages and Celtic culture. So many Cornish idiots hated the EU because they are bigots and despite economic migrants going to and from France since the 16th century many loved to pretend they had not.

[Primo Carnera]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

We will never know how successful Corbyn’s version would have been or more importantly how much the EU would’ve moved the goalposts in order to shaft and punish the U.K. for daring to leave the EU. Digging their heels in for one last payday.
And yes Cornwall benefited from EU money , but this was in return for restricting the fishermen’s ability to earn a living by imposing ridiculous fishing borders and unfair Quotas on them whilst allowing European fishing boats to fill their boots and work to a very different set of rules.
How can it be for example, that French and Spanish fishermen can pillage U.K. waters and have way more generous quotas to work to ? It’s fucking disgusting to be honest, and that is why 90% of the Cornish fishing industry voted for Brexit.
They were fucking imprisoned in their own waters while EU boats cashed in.

That is just the lie you have been sold. Farage and the other bullshitters lies worked even on someone who doesn't see himself as British like yourself. Farage never even turned up to any meetings at the EU to fight for more sustainable fishing rights for British fishermen. He used to claim it was 80% caught by the EU fishermen as opposed to 20% by Brits. The reality is much closer to 56% EU and 44% UK. The whole idea of fish being 'ours' is reductive nonsense anyway, the same as the invasive species bullshit as though animals should have passports etc. Crackers.

The Cornish EU money had absolutely nothing to do with fishing rights. It was to do with preserving Brittonic languages and Celtic culture. So many Cornish idiots hated the EU because they are bigots and despite economic migrants going to and from France since the 16th century many loved to pretend they had not.

Mate, I have no interest in what that bullshitting, lying, gutless cunt Farage has to say. I’m going by the facts from the Fishermen direct.
This is not specifically a Brexit issue , this is an issue of shit governance for decades, not just this government, but governments going back even to the 70s and the Icelandic Cod wars, where governments have not stood up for the fishermen of these islands ever.
As for the “nonsense of the fish being ours,” just imagine a Cornish trawler rocking up 10 miles off the Côte d’Azur or Costa del Sol and Fishing more Squid and Octopus than the locals are allowed to. Works both ways.
And the reason why Europe has been able to take the piss out of our Fishermen and Government after Government has let it happen, and you’re not gonna like this , so DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER, is because in their mindsets, Europeans know historically that the Brits have no desire or no clue what to do with the fish in the waters surrounding them.
They can’t believe that Brits used to throw away the likes of Langoustine and Monkfish or put them in breadcrumbs to make Scampi and chips in the basket. Even worse, would be fearful of Octopus!

[Beanz]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

We will never know how successful Corbyn’s version would have been or more importantly how much the EU would’ve moved the goalposts in order to shaft and punish the U.K. for daring to leave the EU. Digging their heels in for one last payday.
And yes Cornwall benefited from EU money , but this was in return for restricting the fishermen’s ability to earn a living by imposing ridiculous fishing borders and unfair Quotas on them whilst allowing European fishing boats to fill their boots and work to a very different set of rules.
How can it be for example, that French and Spanish fishermen can pillage U.K. waters and have way more generous quotas to work to ? It’s fucking disgusting to be honest, and that is why 90% of the Cornish fishing industry voted for Brexit.
They were fucking imprisoned in their own waters while EU boats cashed in.

That is just the lie you have been sold. Farage and the other bullshitters lies worked even on someone who doesn't see himself as British like yourself. Farage never even turned up to any meetings at the EU to fight for more sustainable fishing rights for British fishermen. He used to claim it was 80% caught by the EU fishermen as opposed to 20% by Brits. The reality is much closer to 56% EU and 44% UK. The whole idea of fish being 'ours' is reductive nonsense anyway, the same as the invasive species bullshit as though animals should have passports etc. Crackers.

The Cornish EU money had absolutely nothing to do with fishing rights. It was to do with preserving Brittonic languages and Celtic culture. So many Cornish idiots hated the EU because they are bigots and despite economic migrants going to and from France since the 16th century many loved to pretend they had not.

Mate, I have no interest in what that bullshitting, lying, gutless cunt Farage has to say. I’m going by the facts from the Fishermen direct.
This is not specifically a Brexit issue , this is an issue of shit governance for decades, not just this government, but governments going back even to the 70s and the Icelandic Cod wars, where governments have not stood up for the fishermen of these islands ever.
As for the “nonsense of the fish being ours,” just imagine a Cornish trawler rocking up 10 miles off the Côte d’Azur or Costa del Sol and Fishing more Squid and Octopus than the locals are allowed to. Works both ways.
And the reason why Europe has been able to take the piss out of our Fishermen and Government after Government has let it happen, and you’re not gonna like this , so DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER, is because in their mindsets, Europeans know historically that the Brits have no desire or no clue what to do with the fish in the waters surrounding them.
They can’t believe that Brits used to throw away the likes of Langoustine and Monkfish or put them in breadcrumbs to make Scampi and chips in the basket. Even worse, would be fearful of Octopus!

Exactly. That is also why it was stupid to make it so much harder for themsleves to sell to the European market. It is insane for me why people, and bitter old people mostly, would want to pull the rug from under their children and grandchildren and consign this country back to the bad old isolationist days, as though the huge benefits of being a member of the EU never really happened.

Mental self harm bullshit encouraged by pricks like Farage and a bunch of aristocratic racist royalists who don't have the first clue about British History or culture, let alone our European roots.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Got to say but Primo gets the clear nod there,

[Kirkland Laing]

The British government got itself into a pickle by promising voters a referendum. They did this to head off Farage and his party from taking a big enough chunk of the vote at the next election to allow Labour to win. That's why we had the referendum. They'd backed themselves into a corner and they'd just won the Scottish referendum so they thought fuck it, we can win this one too. The thing is though every single time EU integration has come up for a vote anywhere in Europe whether it was France or Ireland or wherever the EU side has lost and that's what happened again.

Any vote like this was always going to come down to a few percent either way so the lowest information/intelligence voters were going to be the key. The government allowed the most consequential decision of our lifetimes to be decided by the nation's window lickers. And here we are with the outcome being demonstrably clearly bad for the country, an actual increase in immigration that the tabloids are for some reason avoiding making a big deal out of and both parties terrified of admitting it's bad and we should at least rejoin the single market. Sixty percent of voters now say it's a bad idea, when it gets closer to seventy the Labour party will hopefully do an about turn although I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what percentage of Labour voters in the red parts of the country are Brexit voters. That's who they're scared of. If those people remain behind Brexit due to their nationalist/racist/window licking/whatever issues then the country will become increasingly more and more fucked.


Stuff like the fishing is very visible but completely insignificant. Commercial fishing is less than 0.1% of UK GDP. If GDP goes up 2.1% next year are we going to notice the 0.1% Of course not, but fishing is a visible thing and involves people fishing in our waters so it becomes a political football. The bottom line is pooled sovereignty means we've got to share fishing grounds which is a net loss for the country but we make massive net gains elsewhere or at least we did.