UK general election

[Beanz]

Mate, instead of blaming some media conspiracy, a secret inner cabal of traitors within the Labour Party (ironically, a Fifth Column on non-communists ) or some enormously complex plot to divide and conquer the 'people' by leaving Europe ...... can't you see that the labour vote is being utterly wiped out because people think they are a bunch of useless unelectable tossers!

Diane Abbot appears to be unable to walk and chew at the same time, she seems pretty thick with little grasp of her own policies.

Ive said for a while that Corbyn's rather infantile policies are likely to bankrupt the country. 4 new bank holidays .... they think the people are so stupid that that would be some sort of vote winner, for fucks sake!

People should respect the electorate, just because people don't agree with your own views that doesn't de facto make every single one of them wrong, stupid or hoodwinked.

I believe that a strong Opposition is critical in holding any government to account, and to provide checks and balances against ideological extremism ...... but it is completely Corbyns fault that the Tories are winning all those seats. It's his fault that the Labour Party are in a complete shambles, and it's his fault that it has been taken over by a smallish group of far left totalitarians who have likely made them unelectable for a generation.

If he really was voted in by such an overwhelming margin to be the Leader of the party, where the hell are all those votes!

An effectively One Party country is never a good thing, it's Labour and Corbyn's fault that we seem to be going that way. I'm not a labour supporter any more, but I'm genuinely angry with them for their clueless incompetence.

You are also in denial if you will not even acknowledge the growing influence of a right wing invested media in concentrating on personalities rather than policies. It is no coincidence that Osborne has left to become an editor or that the Tories have the ready ear of most of Fleet Street to whisper into. In fact it has become the right wing press dictating policy for a long time now at which the Conservatives cannot wait to jump.

Of all the policies to focus on why on earth would you be so bothered about extra bank holidays? You are on the one hand insisting that people should respect the electorate whilst chiding the elected leader of the Labour party. If he does not represent you, don't vote for him. When Blair led Labour into swallowing right wing rhetoric and throwing his weight behind the multinational corporate war machine then i made sure i did not vote for him. Many of the old Labour supporters, pre 'New Democrat aping Labour tory light Labour' and the new younger voters do not think Corbyn is unelectable. That is clearly bullshit when the guy has been elected leader of a major political party. Doesn't wash mate, you can speak for yourself but the General election is quite different to local elections as we shall see.

[Master]

It is outrageous that cunt Osborne can get a six figure amount from city firm, a job at newspaper and tried to stay on as an MP. All work hand in hand to keep their rich boy happy. That is unjust, corrupt and unfair.

[X]

I'm sure that I am probably in denial about some things - it's human nature to more readily hear things we already agree with. Just look at some of the posts that are all over this forum

Actually, I agree with you about the growing influence of right wing media, especially through non-conventional channels such as social media, vlogs and new Facebook groups. They drown out discerning thought by shouting loudly, making up falsehoods and lies, normalising hate crime and reprogramming the way people's brains work (its true, there is hard scientific evidence of this phenomenon) to dehumanise anybody who thinks differently.

We see this bleeding into mainstream politics. Trump successfully harnessed this to help him win an election IMO, and Le Pen is trying it in France as we speak.

Incidentally, you spoke about the lack of proper debate on another thread. I totally agree. Shouting loudly, not answering the question, not engaging in the debate, regurgitating some poorly researched 'facts', insulting and blaming somebody defenceless now seeems to be the accepted norm .... and I despise it.

I mentioned the Bank Holiday thing because I remember feeling vaguely insulted by it. No other reason. I think I commented on one of your other posts about Labour's policies that they were all fairly admirable but would all cost a hell of a lot of money, and I couldn't see in their manifesto where all that money would come from. Sure, there was talk of closing off tax loopholes, catching dodging multinationals etc but there was little granularity in the numbers. My reaction was "show me the money"!

I sort of take your point about my seeming inconsistency in preaching respect for the electorate, but then chiding the elected leader of Labour ... but I was insinuating that I felt his landslide victory was a bit fishy (and there were unproven allegations about that at the time). I accept I might be in denial, but there isn't much evidence of that massive support today?

I would also usually expect the Opposition to be more successful in local elections, that's the lesson that history teaches us. Incumbent governments sometimes do badly in local elections as the electorate gives them a rap on the knuckles and demands they stand up straighter and do what they promised. I didn't expect the conservatives to muller labour so much.

This is not not good news for Labour just before a General Election, though of course it will probably maximise the Labour turnout in 5 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend to know you, or categorise your politics, but on the evidence of seeing a lot of your posts for quite a long time I think you and I probably have different outlooks and ideologies - politically, anyway.

I still maintain that Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour, and that they have singularly failed to present a compelling vision or message to the electorate.

Ive always respected your consistency though, and also your right to have an opposing view to me!! I haven't ever shouted you down ......... at least we both like boxing 👍🏼

[El Kabong]

Brock you have zero to add to the thread. On that basis maybe it's time for mods to start holding posters who do not add to threads to account. At least Lyle is now semi trying to engage, but you don't and it's all about winding people up. I have read through 3 pages and all you are doing is looking for trouble. Are you bored?

Semi trying to engage?

Semi?

[brocktonblockbust]

Brock you have zero to add to the thread. On that basis maybe it's time for mods to start holding posters who do not add to threads to account. At least Lyle is now semi trying to engage, but you don't and it's all about winding people up. I have read through 3 pages and all you are doing is looking for trouble. Are you bored?

Semi trying to engage?

Semi?

yep Lyle pretty much just got called a half-ass. WTF FFS. What snideness.

[Beanz]

I'm sure that I am probably in denial about some things - it's human nature to more readily hear things we already agree with. Just look at some of the posts that are all over this forum

Actually, I agree with you about the growing influence of right wing media, especially through non-conventional channels such as social media, vlogs and new Facebook groups. They drown out discerning thought by shouting loudly, making up falsehoods and lies, normalising hate crime and reprogramming the way people's brains work (its true, there is hard scientific evidence of this phenomenon) to dehumanise anybody who thinks differently.

We see this bleeding into mainstream politics. Trump successfully harnessed this to help him win an election IMO, and Le Pen is trying it in France as we speak.

Incidentally, you spoke about the lack of proper debate on another thread. I totally agree. Shouting loudly, not answering the question, not engaging in the debate, regurgitating some poorly researched 'facts', insulting and blaming somebody defenceless now seeems to be the accepted norm .... and I despise it.

I mentioned the Bank Holiday thing because I remember feeling vaguely insulted by it. No other reason. I think I commented on one of your other posts about Labour's policies that they were all fairly admirable but would all cost a hell of a lot of money, and I couldn't see in their manifesto where all that money would come from. Sure, there was talk of closing off tax loopholes, catching dodging multinationals etc but there was little granularity in the numbers. My reaction was "show me the money"!

I sort of take your point about my seeming inconsistency in preaching respect for the electorate, but then chiding the elected leader of Labour ... but I was insinuating that I felt his landslide victory was a bit fishy (and there were unproven allegations about that at the time). I accept I might be in denial, but there isn't much evidence of that massive support today?

I would also usually expect the Opposition to be more successful in local elections, that's the lesson that history teaches us. Incumbent governments sometimes do badly in local elections as the electorate gives them a rap on the knuckles and demands they stand up straighter and do what they promised. I didn't expect the conservatives to muller labour so much.

This is not not good news for Labour just before a General Election, though of course it will probably maximise the Labour turnout in 5 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend to know you, or categorise your politics, but on the evidence of seeing a lot of your posts for quite a long time I think you and I probably have different outlooks and ideologies - politically, anyway.

I still maintain that Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour, and that they have singularly failed to present a compelling vision or message to the electorate.

Ive always respected your consistency though, and also your right to have an opposing view to me!! I haven't ever shouted you down ......... at least we both like boxing ������������

Thank you. I completely understand where you are coming from and actually think you are right about Corbyn in many ways. He is going to struggle so much to appeal to most of the conventional electorate, he may as well go full on and be honest about his unconventionality, and try and display his passion and get young people on board. Campaign on the idea of change, and not try and appease people who will never vote for him anyway. A strong coalition of parties on the left and centre is what I would ideally like being a lot less ideological than in my youth. There are a lot of different views in the country that simply are not represented even by a strong two party system. Proportional representation and much more two way system between communities and legislation.

As a self employed person Bank Holidays will only affect me negatively but I have not forgotten how welcome they were when working in a factory on site or the civil service and education sector.


I love boxing it is a huge part of my life still. In work and play.

[Master]

West Midlands has a Tory mayor.

Corbyn is a liability for the party unfortunately.

[Gandalf]

Why is he a liability though? He hasn't done a single thing wrong. If the people want Tories then screw them. They should have been more clued up and aware of how they are being duped. All sensible young people should leave if it happens and they should never look back. They have been betrayed for 40 years by the system and the people who keep voting for this shite. Get out while you can. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is a liability is an idiot. I would sooner have a rocket land on my head than retreat.

[Master]

Why is he a liability though? He hasn't done a single thing wrong. If the people want Tories then screw them. They should have been more clued up and aware of how they are being duped. All sensible young people should leave if it happens and they should never look back. They have been betrayed for 40 years by the system and the people who keep voting for this shite. Get out while you can. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is a liability is an idiot. I would sooner have a rocket land on my head than retreat.

No point being in opposition having your values and principles, Labour needs to listen to what the electorate want and give it.

[Gandalf]

So Labour should ape the Tories? It just doesn't make any sense. They tried doing that in 2015 and it failed. What has happened is Labour sabotaged itself with endless challenges to Corbyn, the media concertedly set out to destroy him and the Tories are now seen as the pro Brexit party. I don't think any of that is a conspiracy. It's an easy path to track. I didn't expect people were this stupid. It seems with Facebook, footy and soaps you've a system of complete control.

They say that 20% are really clued in. A lot of them such as the Guardian crowd are vested in this system. They have private health care, their property has doubled in value, they own shares etc. They probably quite like how it is all evolving. The rest seem to be sheep ready to be herded. The smart young ones can never compete without selling out. This is where I start sounding extreme. Leave and make sure you are where it ends. There can be no future in a world like this. Space is the only way out and we don't have a reservation.

[Beanz]

So Labour should ape the Tories? It just doesn't make any sense. They tried doing that in 2015 and it failed. What has happened is Labour sabotaged itself with endless challenges to Corbyn, the media concertedly set out to destroy him and the Tories are now seen as the pro Brexit party. I don't think any of that is a conspiracy. It's an easy path to track. I didn't expect people were this stupid. It seems with Facebook, footy and soaps you've a system of complete control.

They say that 20% are really clued in. A lot of them such as the Guardian crowd are vested in this system. They have private health care, their property has doubled in value, they own shares etc. They probably quite like how it is all evolving. The rest seem to be sheep ready to be herded. The smart young ones can never compete without selling out. This is where I start sounding extreme. Leave and make sure you are where it ends. There can be no future in a world like this. Space is the only way out and we don't have a reservation.

That is quite a patronising and ill informed out of touch way of seeing things. Yes there are a lot of easily led people and a huge swathe of middle England that are are all very well off and would like to turn the clock back to a Pre EU Britain but they are not the whole of the electorate. They just get out and vote more. Always have. Mobilising everyone else is the real challenge and you are right that the press and their coverage makes that hard but even the Guardian as establishment as it is has some damn fine journalists and commentators who are able and willing to point out the lies being pedaled by the Tory machine. Some people also like simplisitc soundbite culture which is why Farage translated so well in America, they want to believe we are a pardody of Britain like him. His party UKIP were absolutely annihilated in the local elections which is brilliant news. The bad new is the Tories despite undergoing criminal investigation will capitalise on that and take those UKIP voters because they have now adopted their retarded policies many of which you supported.

[Gandalf]

It was an angry post. Just shocked that it is true Labour is so far down. I've done okay in North Korea by being part of the system, but I still want a fairer system that rises standards for all.

[Master]

It was an angry post. Just shocked that it is true Labour is so far down. I've done okay in North Korea by being part of the system, but I still want a fairer system that rises standards for all.

OK, now go to sleep. It is way past your bed time.

[Master]

The art of the con. Governments play on people’s emotions and use people like pawns on a chess board. Each day they contrive to squeeze more out of you and line their own pockets. The tricks and techniques are the same - Smoke and Mirrors.

Classifying information under secrets acts

Setting up independent enquiries that are rigged to produce favourable results.

Bombarding you with repeated lies that a five year could figure out and spot.

Overloading you with media BS to overwhelm you with useless information - Princess Diana stories and Madeline McCann still running after 20yrs and ten years respectively.

Falsifying figures to give the illusion that inflation is 2%. Anyone who goes to the supermarket will tell you the cost of basic staples is going up whilst the product size is shrinking.

Inflating property prices to the extent that most people cannot afford a house without debt.

Job Cronyism - Appointing independent consultants who set-up creative recruitment techniques whose sole purpose is to rig the hiring process for preferred candidates.

Truth Suppression - Whistleblowers and truthsayers are persecuted to prevent any contrarian view that goes against the scripted narrative.

Polticians are so deluded that they think that they have some noble qualified privilege to tell lies and manipulate the population. Noblism is a state of delusion from birth. They think they have the right to spurt out verbal nonsense.

[brocktonblockbust]

Completely agree with Master's post above. But what can we do about it? It's always been like this. People say I am not corrupt elect me and I will do the job and then when they get in they are corrupt. You have heard the old argument that is simply human nature. That power corrupts. Could it be this simple question mark is it too depressing to think that this could be the way human nature simply is? Have we ever seen a good leader who was not corrupt? If so he was probably assassinated