Is Wladimir Klitschko a top ten ATG heavyweight?

[brocktonblockbust]

. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Replace Frazier with Marciano

[powerpuncher]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

[El Kabong]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

[Master]

. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Replace Frazier with Marciano

Frazier destroys Rocky.

[Master]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

Vitali was sturdy but did not reign as long. Wlad had the 2nd highest record number of defences and that must count for something.

[erics44]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

[Master]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

Yes because it is that easy and no one ever tried to do that in all the defences he had.

[BIG H]

It's hard to say how good he is/was, because his opposition was so poor. We don't know if he would've still reigned for 10 years even if his opposition was better, but you have to ask yourself this, is there anybody he has beaten, that there aren't at least 30 other HWs' in history that would also have beaten?

I think that even somebody like Tim Witherspoon would've beaten everybody that Wlad beat. It's hard to put somebody top 10 who really hasn't beaten anybody, but hard to keep him out based on his number of wins, time unbeaten, longevity etc. Personally I would not have him top 10.

Love the bloke though!!

[El Kabong]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

Yes because it is that easy and no one ever tried to do that in all the defences he had.

It's just SOOOOO easy to beat Wladimir Klitschko that he lost 5 times in 69 bouts



So easy that @erics44 himself could do it right? Right @erics44

[erics44]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

Yes because it is that easy and no one ever tried to do that in all the defences he had.

It was tough to throw a punch back because every time you try he grabs and holds tight, then leans

All you have to do is watch any one of his defences to see that

I honestly can't see how people can defend it, it's absolutely clear as day

[El Kabong]

It was tough to throw a punch back because every time you try he grabs and holds tight, then leans

All you have to do is watch any one of his defences to see that

I honestly can't see how people can defend it, it's absolutely clear as day

Mr. Referee, Mr. Referee!!!! He's not letting me hit him back


You're ridiculous

[powerpuncher]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

If that happened then I would give him a ton more respect. I just don't see it happening. I think that vitali was the better fighter between the two. He just doesn't have the accolades that his brother has.

Your argument doesn't hold up though. Let's say for example that Ali and Frazier never fought. They just avoided each other and both claimed to be the best. Wouldn't both of their statuses have gone down significantly? This fights made them who they were.

Wlad and vitali we're the obvious two best fighters for a while. If they don't fight each other, you have to dock them for avoiding the most dangerous opponent out there even if there was a good reason. I mean seriously, vitali would have been hands down the best fighter that wlad had ever fought. If he could have beaten him, then I would have said that he was the real deal. Since they didn't fight, I can only go off of what I perceive which was that wlad would have gotten beat and basically got a free pass to avoid the actual best HW fighter at the time.

[El Kabong]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

If that happened then I would give him a ton more respect. I just don't see it happening. I think that vitali was the better fighter between the two. He just doesn't have the accolades that his brother has.

Your argument doesn't hold up though. Let's say for example that Ali and Frazier never fought. They just avoided each other and both claimed to be the best. Wouldn't both of their statuses have gone down significantly? This fights made them who they were.

Wlad and vitali we're the obvious two best fighters for a while. If they don't fight each other, you have to dock them for avoiding the most dangerous opponent out there even if there was a good reason. I mean seriously, vitali would have been hands down the best fighter that wlad had ever fought. If he could have beaten him, then I would have said that he was the real deal. Since they didn't fight, I can only go off of what I perceive which was that wlad would have gotten beat and basically got a free pass to avoid the actual best HW fighter at the time.

Yeah.....soooo in the long and storied history of boxing when have brothers fought each other?

Max Baer vs Buddy Baer? That ever happen?

Jerry vs Mike vs Bobby in a Quarry Brothers Battle Royal? That ever go down?

Floyd Sr ever fight Roger or Jeff Mayweather?

Leon and Michael Spinks ever fight each other? That ever happen?




Just provide ANY precedent for that fight to happen and I'll agree with you otherwise it's a big old nothing burger

[Master]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

If that happened then I would give him a ton more respect. I just don't see it happening. I think that vitali was the better fighter between the two. He just doesn't have the accolades that his brother has.

Your argument doesn't hold up though. Let's say for example that Ali and Frazier never fought. They just avoided each other and both claimed to be the best. Wouldn't both of their statuses have gone down significantly? This fights made them who they were.

Wlad and vitali we're the obvious two best fighters for a while. If they don't fight each other, you have to dock them for avoiding the most dangerous opponent out there even if there was a good reason. I mean seriously, vitali would have been hands down the best fighter that wlad had ever fought. If he could have beaten him, then I would have said that he was the real deal. Since they didn't fight, I can only go off of what I perceive which was that wlad would have gotten beat and basically got a free pass to avoid the actual best HW fighter at the time.

Yeah.....soooo in the long and storied history of boxing when have brothers fought each other?

Max Baer vs Buddy Baer? That ever happen?

Jerry vs Mike vs Bobby in a Quarry Brothers Battle Royal? That ever go down?

Floyd Sr ever fight Roger or Jeff Mayweather?

Leon and Michael Spinks ever fight each other? That ever happen?




Just provide ANY precedent for that fight to happen and I'll agree with you otherwise it's a big old nothing burger

Hughie and Tyson will never fight one another either.

[powerpuncher]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

If that happened then I would give him a ton more respect. I just don't see it happening. I think that vitali was the better fighter between the two. He just doesn't have the accolades that his brother has.

Your argument doesn't hold up though. Let's say for example that Ali and Frazier never fought. They just avoided each other and both claimed to be the best. Wouldn't both of their statuses have gone down significantly? This fights made them who they were.

Wlad and vitali we're the obvious two best fighters for a while. If they don't fight each other, you have to dock them for avoiding the most dangerous opponent out there even if there was a good reason. I mean seriously, vitali would have been hands down the best fighter that wlad had ever fought. If he could have beaten him, then I would have said that he was the real deal. Since they didn't fight, I can only go off of what I perceive which was that wlad would have gotten beat and basically got a free pass to avoid the actual best HW fighter at the time.

Yeah.....soooo in the long and storied history of boxing when have brothers fought each other?

Max Baer vs Buddy Baer? That ever happen?

Jerry vs Mike vs Bobby in a Quarry Brothers Battle Royal? That ever go down?

Floyd Sr ever fight Roger or Jeff Mayweather?

Leon and Michael Spinks ever fight each other? That ever happen?




Just provide ANY precedent for that fight to happen and I'll agree with you otherwise it's a big old nothing burger

It doesn't matter if it hasn't happened. The point is that wlad got a free pass against his most dangerous opponent hands down. Even if it's justified, it doesn't take away from the fact that he didn't have to fight the other best fighter in the division.