Boxing Forums


.



User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  29
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 65

Thread: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

Share/Bookmark
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    130
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    As soon as Floyd gets space his class will shine and he’ll take over. Floyd isn’t bad on the inside either and I’ve never seen him tired so Hatton’s pace (his best weapon) won’t be a factor. Floyd can get rough inside if that the way Hatton wanted to play it. Mayweather is one of the best and he’s a few levels above Ricky.
    Floyd struggled for 6 rounds against Hatton which is why I think under those conditions Hatton could have done well for another 6 rounds. Once he gave Kostya room he got hurt so had to close the distance. Floyd never had that much power but he does have the accuracy.
    Yeah but Tszyu always set himself before punching so it was much easier to close the distance against him. Floyd had much quicker hands and feet, he’d have landed and then got out of there which Tszyu was unable to do.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    56,722
    Mentioned
    1458 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2700
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    As soon as Floyd gets space his class will shine and he’ll take over. Floyd isn’t bad on the inside either and I’ve never seen him tired so Hatton’s pace (his best weapon) won’t be a factor. Floyd can get rough inside if that the way Hatton wanted to play it. Mayweather is one of the best and he’s a few levels above Ricky.
    Floyd struggled for 6 rounds against Hatton which is why I think under those conditions Hatton could have done well for another 6 rounds. Once he gave Kostya room he got hurt so had to close the distance. Floyd never had that much power but he does have the accuracy.
    Yeah but Tszyu always set himself before punching so it was much easier to close the distance against him. Floyd had much quicker hands and feet, he’d have landed and then got out of there which Tszyu was unable to do.
    Well for the first 6 rounds he was not able to against Hatton.

    So there would be a chance.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    McAllen, Texas?
    Posts
    5,030
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    905
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
    We know that a slugger beats a swarmer, because the swarmer only moves forward, which works in the slugger's favor since he doesn't have to chase him to land his big punches.

    So, what were some fights between a slugger and a swarmer? I already know about Foreman-Frazier and Liston-Patterson. Would Gonzalez-Mares be one?
    The first paragraph....who makes up this stuff?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,390
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    471
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Some of the examples provided (Byrd, Floyd Patterson...etc.), don't really fit the swarmer style in my mind. I views swarmers as high volume guys who overwhelm their opponents. With that in mind, I would classify Joe C, Prime Manny, Margarito, Paul Williams, Aaron Pryor, Wayne McCollough, and Henry Armstrong as examples of high volume fighters who overwhelmed their opponents.

    If the high volume guy has a good chin, I feel that they have the advantage and usually prevail vs the puncher, as the puncher usually becomes exhausted and discouraged. That being said, the swarmer tends to suffer spectacular knockouts once their chin finally does fail them (Margo vs Mosely, Williams vs Sergio Martinez, Hatton vs Manny) because they often walk into big shots.

    As for Kostya Tszyu, I classify him as a multidimensional fighter who preferred fighting from the middle distance and had great punching power. He got cocky vs Vince Phillips and old vs Hatton, but on his best nights he would've been a threat to anyone. I would've loved to see him fight Floyd at 140, and while I think Floyd would've pulled it out, I think it would've been very close, and very tough.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On the levee
    Posts
    38,639
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    4720
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Some of the examples provided (Byrd, Floyd Patterson...etc.), don't really fit the swarmer style in my mind. I views swarmers as high volume guys who overwhelm their opponents. With that in mind, I would classify Joe C, Prime Manny, Margarito, Paul Williams, Aaron Pryor, Wayne McCollough, and Henry Armstrong as examples of high volume fighters who overwhelmed their opponents.

    If the high volume guy has a good chin, I feel that they have the advantage and usually prevail vs the puncher, as the puncher usually becomes exhausted and discouraged. That being said, the swarmer tends to suffer spectacular knockouts once their chin finally does fail them (Margo vs Mosely, Williams vs Sergio Martinez, Hatton vs Manny) because they often walk into big shots.

    As for Kostya Tszyu, I classify him as a multidimensional fighter who preferred fighting from the middle distance and had great punching power. He got cocky vs Vince Phillips and old vs Hatton, but on his best nights he would've been a threat to anyone. I would've loved to see him fight Floyd at 140, and while I think Floyd would've pulled it out, I think it would've been very close, and very tough.
    Pocket Rocket is a great call and good all around description, tremendous volume with limited pop and more than willing up front. I liked Byrd with swarmer in spots it felt he always tried to over compensate as career went and play that out, get inside and play macho which came crashing back on him more than it saw him win huge. It worked early always smaller vs decent punchers and he more often than not went for the finish. Definitely far sharper than just a swarmer though and good boxing mind with very sound defense. Toney vs Tiberi just pops into mind, lethargic Toney outhustled non stop start to finish mainly. A guy like ultimate swarmer Zack Padilla was cut short.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,390
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    471
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Some of the examples provided (Byrd, Floyd Patterson...etc.), don't really fit the swarmer style in my mind. I views swarmers as high volume guys who overwhelm their opponents. With that in mind, I would classify Joe C, Prime Manny, Margarito, Paul Williams, Aaron Pryor, Wayne McCollough, and Henry Armstrong as examples of high volume fighters who overwhelmed their opponents.

    If the high volume guy has a good chin, I feel that they have the advantage and usually prevail vs the puncher, as the puncher usually becomes exhausted and discouraged. That being said, the swarmer tends to suffer spectacular knockouts once their chin finally does fail them (Margo vs Mosely, Williams vs Sergio Martinez, Hatton vs Manny) because they often walk into big shots.

    As for Kostya Tszyu, I classify him as a multidimensional fighter who preferred fighting from the middle distance and had great punching power. He got cocky vs Vince Phillips and old vs Hatton, but on his best nights he would've been a threat to anyone. I would've loved to see him fight Floyd at 140, and while I think Floyd would've pulled it out, I think it would've been very close, and very tough.
    Pocket Rocket is a great call and good all around description, tremendous volume with limited pop and more than willing up front. I liked Byrd with swarmer in spots it felt he always tried to over compensate as career went and play that out, get inside and play macho which came crashing back on him more than it saw him win huge. It worked early always smaller vs decent punchers and he more often than not went for the finish. Definitely far sharper than just a swarmer though and good boxing mind with very sound defense. Toney vs Tiberi just pops into mind, lethargic Toney outhustled non stop start to finish mainly. A guy like ultimate swarmer Zack Padilla was cut short.
    Padilla is a great call (Tiberi also, but more on him in a minute). If I'm not mistaken, Zack and Ray Olivera still hold the punch stat record for most punches thrown. Don't know how he slipped my mind!

    I agree that Tiberi hustled to a win, as did Montell and Drake Thadzi. James was slick and a great counter puncher, but he was very vulnerable to lose to busy guys. It's why I would favor a prime BHop over a prime Toney.

    Would you consider prime Duran and JCC volume punchers?

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    895
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    385
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Some of the examples provided (Byrd, Floyd Patterson...etc.), don't really fit the swarmer style in my mind. I views swarmers as high volume guys who overwhelm their opponents. With that in mind, I would classify Joe C, Prime Manny, Margarito, Paul Williams, Aaron Pryor, Wayne McCollough, and Henry Armstrong as examples of high volume fighters who overwhelmed their opponents.

    If the high volume guy has a good chin, I feel that they have the advantage and usually prevail vs the puncher, as the puncher usually becomes exhausted and discouraged. That being said, the swarmer tends to suffer spectacular knockouts once their chin finally does fail them (Margo vs Mosely, Williams vs Sergio Martinez, Hatton vs Manny) because they often walk into big shots.

    As for Kostya Tszyu, I classify him as a multidimensional fighter who preferred fighting from the middle distance and had great punching power. He got cocky vs Vince Phillips and old vs Hatton, but on his best nights he would've been a threat to anyone. I would've loved to see him fight Floyd at 140, and while I think Floyd would've pulled it out, I think it would've been very close, and very tough.
    I mean, boxing usually isn't as simple as "X fighter definitely beats Y fighter because of their styles".

    And most of the top fighters in the sport don't really fit into any one particular style.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On the levee
    Posts
    38,639
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    4720
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Some of the examples provided (Byrd, Floyd Patterson...etc.), don't really fit the swarmer style in my mind. I views swarmers as high volume guys who overwhelm their opponents. With that in mind, I would classify Joe C, Prime Manny, Margarito, Paul Williams, Aaron Pryor, Wayne McCollough, and Henry Armstrong as examples of high volume fighters who overwhelmed their opponents.

    If the high volume guy has a good chin, I feel that they have the advantage and usually prevail vs the puncher, as the puncher usually becomes exhausted and discouraged. That being said, the swarmer tends to suffer spectacular knockouts once their chin finally does fail them (Margo vs Mosely, Williams vs Sergio Martinez, Hatton vs Manny) because they often walk into big shots.

    As for Kostya Tszyu, I classify him as a multidimensional fighter who preferred fighting from the middle distance and had great punching power. He got cocky vs Vince Phillips and old vs Hatton, but on his best nights he would've been a threat to anyone. I would've loved to see him fight Floyd at 140, and while I think Floyd would've pulled it out, I think it would've been very close, and very tough.
    Pocket Rocket is a great call and good all around description, tremendous volume with limited pop and more than willing up front. I liked Byrd with swarmer in spots it felt he always tried to over compensate as career went and play that out, get inside and play macho which came crashing back on him more than it saw him win huge. It worked early always smaller vs decent punchers and he more often than not went for the finish. Definitely far sharper than just a swarmer though and good boxing mind with very sound defense. Toney vs Tiberi just pops into mind, lethargic Toney outhustled non stop start to finish mainly. A guy like ultimate swarmer Zack Padilla was cut short.
    Padilla is a great call (Tiberi also, but more on him in a minute). If I'm not mistaken, Zack and Ray Olivera still hold the punch stat record for most punches thrown. Don't know how he slipped my mind!

    I agree that Tiberi hustled to a win, as did Montell and Drake Thadzi. James was slick and a great counter puncher, but he was very vulnerable to lose to busy guys. It's why I would favor a prime BHop over a prime Toney.

    Would you consider prime Duran and JCC volume punchers?
    Guys change up very much depending on opponent and Duran was that. When I think Swarmer it's almost a knock and infers near one dimensional. Duran was a diverse boxer puncher, at times much more buzzsaw than swarmer and others a superb counter puncher, but always volume and adapted to find ways to win. A fighters fighter. Chavez not so diverse imo though he was a better boxer prior to 135, on his toes and sharp puncher. As he went and developed almost became more of a stalker with tremendous punch placement. Fast mover fast hands Randall, Whitaker, Taylor gave him problems. Save for Camacho and Lonnie Smith but that more have been more about the 101 butterflies in their head and stomachs . Exactly on Hopkins vs Toney and way I see it had it kicked off. At that point Hopkins was not the lay back sniper laying in and still think the feet of Toney would have been to flat and he'd be outhustled by Hopkins.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    130
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    @mikeeod Tszyu could’ve moved up to 147 if he wanted challenges but he knew what would’ve happened if he got in there with the likes of Trinidad or Quartey so he stayed put at 140. The reason he never fought Floyd is because he was too busy quitting against Hatton. If Hatton and Phillips are stopping you then elite fighters like Trinidad, Mosley, De La Hoya and Mayweather would completely destroy you.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,390
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    471
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    @mikeeod Tszyu could’ve moved up to 147 if he wanted challenges but he knew what would’ve happened if he got in there with the likes of Trinidad or Quartey so he stayed put at 140. The reason he never fought Floyd is because he was too busy quitting against Hatton. If Hatton and Phillips are stopping you then elite fighters like Trinidad, Mosley, De La Hoya and Mayweather would completely destroy you.
    You make valid points, but would offer the following points of view for discussions sake:

    1. Some fighters just have everything click at one specific weight (Kostya, Hagler, Monzon, Aaron Pryor...etc.), and remain at/dominate that weight. It makes the p4p discussion difficult because these guys are so firmidable at that weight, that they just seem unbeatable but never move up or down. Kostya was that fighter at 140.
    2. Kostya hit his prime in late 2001/2002 when he was unifying and cleaning out 140, so Tito was at middleweight, Quartey was on a hiatus, Oscar was at 154, and Shane was looking to fight Vernon Forrest. In other words, no big fights available for him at 147 after he stops Judah in 2002.
    3. Say what you will about Zab, but he was an undefeated phenom and favored by many to beat Kostya and he was obliterated. On that night anyone who ever fought at 140 has a tough fight on their hands.
    4. Vince was HUGE at 140, and went through hell to come from behind and pull out the late stoppage. Ricky was in his prime and basically mauled and wrestled Kostay into submission. I don't see Floyd being as physical as either guy, and think Kostya preferred classic, speedy boxers like Zab and Sharmba Mitchell. I think Floyd wins because he was an ATG, but don't see it being a blowout or easy win at all.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    130
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    56,722
    Mentioned
    1458 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2700
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.
    Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    130
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.
    Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.
    Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    56,722
    Mentioned
    1458 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2700
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.
    Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.
    Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.
    Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    130
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Slugger vs. Swarmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaMo View Post
    The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.
    Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.
    Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.
    Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.
    You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Paul Williams swarmer style
    By thirty3breeze in forum Boxing Talk
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-20-2010, 03:05 PM
  2. How do you keep a tough swarmer at the end of your glove?
    By Olsen in forum Important / Useful Posts
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-03-2009, 05:50 PM
  3. Swarmer help
    By Salty in forum Spam
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-29-2008, 07:50 PM
  4. New Slugger
    By lazziness in forum Ask the Trainer
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-07-2005, 07:12 AM

Bookmarks

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  





Boxing | Boxing Photos | Boxing News | Boxing Videos | Boxing Forum | Boxing Books | Boxing Posters | Learn to Box | Advanced Fighting Methods | Boxing Rankings | Boxing Schedule | Auctions | Fun and Games | Boxing Equipment

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Saddo Boxing - Boxing