Today in Trump

[TitoFan]

When you refer to "trans kids"... what exactly do you mean? If we begin from there, our basic differences come up to the surface right away. I'm of the belief that kids do not have the mental or emotional capacity to decide whether they're gay or not... much less decide that they're of another gender. From the beginning of time, you've had girls who like to play cowboys and indians... or with toy soldiers... or with toy cars... or get muddy playing with frogs... or climb trees. Traditionally, parents have left them alone to their own development and preferences until... lo and behold... the little girl grows up and starts liking boys, and dresses, and dancing. Maybe she's into sports and decides to be a professional basketball or soccer player. But she's a biological woman. End of story. Might she decide she's gay? Certainly. At an age where sexual preferences begin to arise.

So to me... the very idea of "trans kids" is downright nonsense.

You wrote about Puerto Rico being socially conservative. While that is generally true, Stateside tendencies some across the ocean with a certain lag time. Which means a lot of trans ideologies have already made their way over here.

Here's something very KEY that must be said:

You discuss things from a "left vs right" standpoint. You express things from that macro view. Nothing wrong with that. But I discuss things from a strictly individual basis. And from the basis of people who might not conform to the "left vs right" picture you like to paint. Gays and trans may have been the same to conservative extremists, who have always waged hate campaigns against both groups. That is NOT my case. Once again, at the risk of being repetitive... The basic, key difference between gays and trans is that gays have always fought for their OWN rights, without infringing on the rights of others. If you want to argue that hate mongers from the right claimed that gays were destroying the fiber of society... go ahead. That is not my case, and I will not be lumped in with any group.

Trans, on the other hand, do and ARE infringing on other people's rights. The right to hold women events with only biological women. Your opinion of the impact on women's sports is totally subjective and debatable. If you want to poke fun that I'm "terrified of tranny swimmers", go ahead. I've seen enough news coverage to know it's a problem. Maybe to you it isn't. To many thousands of people it is. Remember... I remember Beanz telling me a few years ago that I was worrying about a blip in society and was inventing an invisible enemy. That was about a few tens of thousands of gender clinics ago. These movements gain speed inexorably. Slowly but surely. Making footholds little by little. Anyone who doesn't see where this is going has been asleep longer than Rip Van Winkle.

I'll continue to refer to your use of "tiny unfortunate minority" as a huge misrepresentation of what is actually a severely pushy movement. Yes... it's a minority. One that wields an enormous and disproportionate amount of power. They got the POTUS's ear... a whole political Party behind them... and an out-to-lunch VP explaining what her pronouns are.

There is NO "tiny unfortunate minority." That was the gays back then. That was the downtrodden blacks back in the civil rights movement days. Maybe not "tiny", but VERY unfortunate.

I know we'll never agree. You're as left-leaning, liberal as they come. Me... I like and dislike aspect of both sides. I'm a Trump hater... while at the same time criticizing many of Biden's weaknesses. I hate the choice America has been given. But such is life. It's why other world powers are quietly passing the USA by on the way to becoming the NEW world powers.

You frame things to your convenience. You're from the school of thought that trans are like the gays of the '80s and '90s... who are like the blacks of the '50s and '60's.

NO. Blacks were BORN black... and all the token affirmative action bullshit, brand renaming, and ridiculous reparations talk hasn't solved the real problems blacks face and will always face in the U.S., which moves at the speed of a bloated elephant in meaningful racial reform. Gays... I've already established for the umpteenth time why gays cannot be compared to the trans.

Hell... even gays are beginning to rebel against the ridiculousness of the trans/queer movement. I predict the acronym will be split sometime in the future.

Surprising as it may seem to you. Gay people are born gay. It's not a choice or decision they choose as an adult or adolescent. Gays were born GAY.

We're talking about kids. Kids aren't gay. Kids aren't heterosexual. Kids aren't trans. Kids aren't anything but kids. And if left alone to their own development, with good parenting and lots of tender, loving care... they'll eventually reach those stages where they'll discover their sexual inclinations.

[TitoFan]

But hey... I don't want to hurt Palmer's bleeding heart feelings by not talking about Trump.

Here you go, dude. This one's for you.


https://www.aol.com/news/trump-faces...hPzFuxRzj5iOHl

"Trump faces more indictments, fines and possible jail time as legal troubles mount"



Oh WOW! Trump faces more indictments (fake shock emoji)!! There could be fines and possible jail time involved!!

Well, well... this is certainly an eye-opening bit of news.

I guess for SURE this time we've got him.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

A pig in shit
Hurtling down a mine
Welsh rabbit
Tin and tonic
Ashley Babbitt

Bundle into Bombay
Chicken balti pie
Is triple G
From the sea or isle of Skye

Sunday roast
Rich got the parsnips
But ol Jim Jones
He got the arsenic

[Kirkland Laing]

When you refer to "trans kids"... what exactly do you mean? If we begin from there, our basic differences come up to the surface right away. I'm of the belief that kids do not have the mental or emotional capacity to decide whether they're gay or not... much less decide that they're of another gender. From the beginning of time, you've had girls who like to play cowboys and indians... or with toy soldiers... or with toy cars... or get muddy playing with frogs... or climb trees. Traditionally, parents have left them alone to their own development and preferences until... lo and behold... the little girl grows up and starts liking boys, and dresses, and dancing. Maybe she's into sports and decides to be a professional basketball or soccer player. But she's a biological woman. End of story. Might she decide she's gay? Certainly. At an age where sexual preferences begin to arise.

So to me... the very idea of "trans kids" is downright nonsense.

You wrote about Puerto Rico being socially conservative. While that is generally true, Stateside tendencies some across the ocean with a certain lag time. Which means a lot of trans ideologies have already made their way over here.

Here's something very KEY that must be said:

You discuss things from a "left vs right" standpoint. You express things from that macro view. Nothing wrong with that. But I discuss things from a strictly individual basis. And from the basis of people who might not conform to the "left vs right" picture you like to paint. Gays and trans may have been the same to conservative extremists, who have always waged hate campaigns against both groups. That is NOT my case. Once again, at the risk of being repetitive... The basic, key difference between gays and trans is that gays have always fought for their OWN rights, without infringing on the rights of others. If you want to argue that hate mongers from the right claimed that gays were destroying the fiber of society... go ahead. That is not my case, and I will not be lumped in with any group.

Trans, on the other hand, do and ARE infringing on other people's rights. The right to hold women events with only biological women. Your opinion of the impact on women's sports is totally subjective and debatable. If you want to poke fun that I'm "terrified of tranny swimmers", go ahead. I've seen enough news coverage to know it's a problem. Maybe to you it isn't. To many thousands of people it is. Remember... I remember Beanz telling me a few years ago that I was worrying about a blip in society and was inventing an invisible enemy. That was about a few tens of thousands of gender clinics ago. These movements gain speed inexorably. Slowly but surely. Making footholds little by little. Anyone who doesn't see where this is going has been asleep longer than Rip Van Winkle.

I'll continue to refer to your use of "tiny unfortunate minority" as a huge misrepresentation of what is actually a severely pushy movement. Yes... it's a minority. One that wields an enormous and disproportionate amount of power. They got the POTUS's ear... a whole political Party behind them... and an out-to-lunch VP explaining what her pronouns are.

There is NO "tiny unfortunate minority." That was the gays back then. That was the downtrodden blacks back in the civil rights movement days. Maybe not "tiny", but VERY unfortunate.

I know we'll never agree. You're as left-leaning, liberal as they come. Me... I like and dislike aspect of both sides. I'm a Trump hater... while at the same time criticizing many of Biden's weaknesses. I hate the choice America has been given. But such is life. It's why other world powers are quietly passing the USA by on the way to becoming the NEW world powers.

You frame things to your convenience. You're from the school of thought that trans are like the gays of the '80s and '90s... who are like the blacks of the '50s and '60's.

NO. Blacks were BORN black... and all the token affirmative action bullshit, brand renaming, and ridiculous reparations talk hasn't solved the real problems blacks face and will always face in the U.S., which moves at the speed of a bloated elephant in meaningful racial reform. Gays... I've already established for the umpteenth time why gays cannot be compared to the trans.

Hell... even gays are beginning to rebel against the ridiculousness of the trans/queer movement. I predict the acronym will be split sometime in the future.

Teenagers are kids and teenagers are definitely able to work out their sexuality. So are much younger kids. In the case of trans kids have a look at some actual facts and evidence versus fee fees and anecdotes:

Data from 155 TW (TW=Trans women)(mean age 41.3; SD 16.3) and 55 TM (trans men) (mean age 35.4; SD 10. were collected. Most patients (TM: 78%; TW: 73%) reported experiencing GD (gender dysmorphia, fancy name for trannyness) for the first time between ages 3 and 7 years. For TM the mean age of onset was 6.17 years; for TW it was 6.71 years. A total of 81% of TW and 80% of TM described their first recollection of GD as one of their earliest memories. Mean years of persistent GD before the start of gender transition were 22.9 (TM) and 27.1 (TW). Rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide ideation decreased following gender transition.

Conclusion

Our findings suggest that GD typically manifests in early childhood and persists untreated for many years before individuals commence gender transition. Diagnosis and early management during childhood and adolescence can improve quality of life and survival.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8766261/


So yeah, when you're talking about improving quality of life and survival of a bunch of six to eighteen year olds I think we should probably try and do that. They don't have any kind of genital surgery until they're adults, all they get before then is hormones and mental health help but even that depends on various stuff.




And as far as rights go the only actual example you can give other than made up stuff is that somebody with different chromosomes to the other participants may take part in an athletic event. There appear to be thirty trans athletes at college level so maybe one in every two states and probably clustered in blue states anyway. It doesn't seem like a huge problem and various bans and whatever will reduce the whole thing to nothing soon enough. Of course one or two examples will be endlessly covered by conservative media as part of the whole demonisation of trans people and it's this bit I don't like. You have these poor unfortunate kids, less than one percent of the kid population, being demonised by a huge chunk of the country. It must be horrific for them at school and so on. Remember that bit about quality of life and survival. And make no mistake this is being done by the media for fun and profit and being driven literally by the huge number of hateful bigots out there whose clicks and eyeballs and engagement drive the coverage. And it ends with traumatised bullied demonised kids killing themselves. If I was a parent of one of these kids I'd be a little bit pushy too. I would probably think that I had the right in America not to have my poor unfortunate kid made into a hate figure and wondering if they're going to still be alive in a week or a month, not to mention me being demonised as a groomer or paedophile and so on. I think that that right kind of trumps some fucking athletic event eh. Those pushy motherfuckers wanting their kids not to kill themselves due to the blitzkrieg of hate being directed at them on an ongoing basis. Who the fuck do they think they are.

[Kirkland Laing]

The next GOP president is going to turn the country into at best a soft autocracy and at worst an autocracy. You may have seen the Israeli government have recently done a small fraction of what Trump is planning and the huge ongoing protests over there. I wonder what the protests will look like in America and what the law enforcement reaction to them will be:

Donald J. Trump and his allies are planning a sweeping expansion of presidential power over the machinery of government if voters return him to the White House in 2025, reshaping the structure of the executive branch to concentrate far greater authority directly in his hands.
Their plans to centralize more power in the Oval Office stretch far beyond the former president’s recent remarks that he would order a criminal investigation into his political rival, President Biden, signaling his intent to end the post-Watergate norm of Justice Department independence from White House political control.
Mr. Trump and his associates have a broader goal: to alter the balance of power by increasing the president’s authority over every part of the federal government that now operates, by either law or tradition, with any measure of independence from political interference by the White House, according to a review of his campaign policy proposals and interviews with people close to him.
Mr. Trump intends to bring independent agencies — like the Federal Communications Commission, which makes and enforces rules for television and internet companies, and the Federal Trade Commission, which enforces various antitrust and other consumer protection rules against businesses — under direct presidential control......

https://dnyuz.com/2023/07/17/trump-a...power-in-2025/






What Iowa Republicans are thinking after Trump’s federal indictment

Transcript from a focus group:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/wh...ent#transcript





ATLANTA (AP) — Rudy Giuliani has conceded that he made public comments falsely claiming two Georgia election workers committed ballot fraud during the 2020 presidential race but is arguing that the statements were protected by the First Amendment.
That assertion by Giuliani, who as part of Donald Trump’s legal team tried to overturn results in battleground states, came in a filing Tuesday in a lawsuit by Ruby Freeman and Wandrea “Shaye” Moss. Their lawsuit from December 2021 accused the former New York City mayor of defaming them by falsely stating that they had engaged in fraud while counting ballots at State Farm Arena in Atlanta.
The lawsuit says Giuliani repeatedly pushed debunked claims that Freeman and Moss — mother and daughter — pulled out suitcases of illegal ballots and committed other acts of fraud to try to alter the outcome of the race.
Though Giuliani is not disputing that the statements were false, he does not concede that they caused any damage to Freeman or Moss. That distinction is important because plaintiffs in a defamation case must prove not only that a statement made about them was false but that it also resulted in actual damage.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...x=1690383901-1





A Marquette poll shows 50% of Republicans don't even think Trump had classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.


https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/statu...22346042777602





Meatball traitor at seven o clock:

https://twitter.com/stephanymatat/st...96596712325124



Speaking of the Meatball look at this:





Look at the distance between his left knee and the ground and then the top of thigh/waist distance. Those are some big old lifts.









Too short to be president. You can stick a fork in the Meatball anyway. Shocking candidate. GOP donors now desperately looking at a black confirmed bachelor. Face it, it's going to be Trump unless there's an artery clogging Cheeseburger of Destiny in his near future.





Finally this just tickled me:


Breana Marsh, who is the director of membership at Young America’s Foundation and has a degree in finance, said that for her, the biggest issues are, “from the conservative perspective, the Second Amendment as well as transgender issues.”

When asked about the economy, Marsh said, “I don’t like the way that we’re going,” adding, “The policies being implemented across the United States just are not good.”

When asked about specific policies, she said, “Truthfully, I couldn’t name you any right now."



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/yo...-says-8de5034e

[Kirkland Laing]

A bit of American history:

The striking miners were 10,000 strong on the first day of September 1921 as they charged up the slope of Blair Mountain, propelled by a radical faith in the American dream. According to an Associated Press reporter who crouched behind a log and watched through field glasses, each time they pressed forward, a “veritable wall” of machine gun fire drove them back. As the barrage peeled through the hollows, reminding some of the action they had just seen in the forests of France, the advancing miners soon heard a different sound: deeper, earthshaking explosions. From biplanes above, tear gas, explosive powder and metal bolts rained down. “My God,” screamed one miner fighting his way up Crooked Creek Gap. “They’re bombing us!”
“They” were Sheriff Don Chafin and his deputies, who terrorized the citizens of Logan County, W.Va., by the authority of the coal companies. The miners vastly outnumbered their opponents, but Chafin had the superior position and weapons. “ACTUAL WAR IS RAGING IN LOGAN,” one local paper declared the day before.
The miners were fighting for the right to unionize, and to end the reviled “mine guard system,” a private force of armed guards who brutally enforced the company’s control in the coal fields.



https://dnyuz.com/2023/07/21/the-red...o-stay-buried/

[Master]

The Miners were being attacked over 100 years ago in the USA way before Thatcher did over here in the 1980's. Very interesting piece of history.

[TitoFan]

Teenagers are kids and teenagers are definitely able to work out their sexuality. So are much younger kids. In the case of trans kids have a look at some actual facts and evidence versus fee fees and anecdotes:

Data from 155 TW (TW=Trans women)(mean age 41.3; SD 16.3) and 55 TM (trans men) (mean age 35.4; SD 10. were collected. Most patients (TM: 78%; TW: 73%) reported experiencing GD (gender dysmorphia, fancy name for trannyness) for the first time between ages 3 and 7 years. For TM the mean age of onset was 6.17 years; for TW it was 6.71 years. A total of 81% of TW and 80% of TM described their first recollection of GD as one of their earliest memories. Mean years of persistent GD before the start of gender transition were 22.9 (TM) and 27.1 (TW). Rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide ideation decreased following gender transition.

Conclusion

Our findings suggest that GD typically manifests in early childhood and persists untreated for many years before individuals commence gender transition. Diagnosis and early management during childhood and adolescence can improve quality of life and survival.

I'll see your trans patient statistics, and I'll raise you mine.

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comm...e-the-evidence


You see... you and I are both intelligent to know that we can always find "reliable, unbiased" media sources that use "statistics" to back up our beliefs and claims. So it eventually becomes a matter of who can come up with the more convincing stuff.

For me, the task was probably more daunting than yours. Why? For the simple reason that nowadays you can throw a rock blindfolded, and hit a pro-LGBTQ article with supposedly "science-based" literature passed off as "facts." On the other side, nowadays finding articles arguing the other side is somewhat more difficult than finding a needle in a haystack.

The FACT of the matter is I've seen verifiable and reliable documentaries discussing the problem of depression and suicides among the transitioned population. People who have undergone the procedures... mainly with the full support of misguided parents, relatives, and "doctors" (quote marks fully intended). They basically beg and beseech young people to truly rethink their intentions, based on their own personal tragedies. But society has a way to muffle and bury stories like this in the obscure places of media... right? We hear what they WANT us to hear.

Some tidbits from the above article:

Dr. Paul McHugh, the university distinguished service professor of psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, explains:

"Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’ In that lies their problematic future."

When ‘the tumult and shouting dies,’ it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.

But hey... nobody wants to hear this, do they. It's counterproductive... and gets in the way of a multi-billion dollar industry worldwide.

Let's look at another one.

Here’s how The Guardian summarized the results of a review of “more than 100 follow-up studies of post-operative transsexuals” by Birmingham University’s Aggressive Research Intelligence Facility:

[The Aggressive Research Intelligence Facility], which conducts reviews of health care treatments for the [National Health Service], concludes that none of the studies provides conclusive evidence that gender reassignment is beneficial for patients. It found that most research was poorly designed, which skewed the results in favor of physically changing sex. There was no evaluation of whether other treatments, such as long-term counseling, might help transsexuals, or whether their gender confusion might lessen over time.

“There is huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing,” said Chris Hyde, the director of the facility. Even if doctors are careful to perform these procedures only on “appropriate patients,” Hyde continued, “there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized—often to the point of committing suicide.”

Of particular concern are the people these studies “lost track of.” As The Guardian noted, “the results of many gender reassignment studies are unsound because researchers lost track of more than half of the participants.” Indeed, “Dr. Hyde said the high drop-out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals.”

"Most... of... the... research... was... poorly... designed." Impossible! Heresy!

Seriously though... most of us intelligent folks here know that the words "research", "scientific", "studies", "proof"... are among the most woefully misused words in the language today. EVERYBODY pretends to know about these. Apparently most of us who labored through many years of college did so for nothing.

Please note the "lost track of" point. Hmm... throws a monkey-wrench right in the middle of the "research," doesn't it. Seems you can't make reliable assumptions about the quality of life (or lack thereof) of transitioned people if you can't consistently keep track of them, eh?

I could quote more passages... but I'll leave it there.

I realize neither of us will ever convince the other that we're right. It boils down to opinions and personal preferences. But I come from a position of... and it bears repeating as many times as needed...

I don't, and have never, advocated for denying people of their personal rights, save for some notable exceptions:

• Your rights do not infringe upon MINE.
• Children are kept out of the equation. WHY the insistence on reaching kids at an age where even traditional gender education is still inappropriate? Let parents do their job.
• Women's sports. You can continue scoffing about the minute nature of these incursions... whereas I'll counter that ONE female athlete that is denied a victory, medal, or scholarship, is one athlete TOO MUCH.
• Beauty pageants. Once again... not my bag. But something that was designed strictly for biological women. Leave them as be... and make up your OWN pageants. Is that too much of an ask??
• Other gender-specific examples. Female sports and pageants are but a couple of other endeavors that are meant to be gender-specific.
• Education. Quit punishing members of our esteemed societal sub-group... teachers. The refusal to accomodate someone who identifies as a deer is hardly grounds for dismissal or suspension.
• Vocabulary. THANKFULLY, the "Real Academia Española" (Spain) has so far refused to cave on including these "made-up" pronouns as part of the accepted vernacular. I only wish the English language authorities would have the backbone to do the same.

I fully realize that the LGBTQXYZ Gestapo will eventually win the war. So right now I'm fully enjoying the battles being won by the rest of us. If you want to characterize us by labeling everyone not on your side with words like: "radical right-wing", "demonizing", "picking on the poor, defenseless, unfortunates", etc. I guess that is your prerogative.

Thankfully, I've already raised my own kids... and never had to personally deal with any of this social decay. PLUS... as you accurately stated a couple of posts ago... I do live in a comparatively conservative society, where trends from the States tend to have a lag time. I only wish I could borrow Trump's wall and put it up, complete with state-of-the-art technology to only keep out bullshit societal movements like this one.


P.S. - Sorry to not have included your full quote. But I was "character-limited" by the site. Basically it was your continued, emotional, obviously vested opinions... painting all objectors as "demon, abusive, pitchfork-wielding, bullies", preying on "Bambi-like, defenseless, "please-and-thank-you-muttering", unfortunate, minority" people.

You're passionate about what you defend. Your specialty is business and finance, obviously your field of study. That's fine. I'm highly educated myself. But mostly I'm (life) wise enough to pick my battles. Oh... and unlike some on here (not alluding to you) ... I DO know the difference between scientific research and social media research.

[Kirkland Laing]

[QUOTE=TitoFan;1636223]

Please note the "lost track of" point. Hmm... throws a monkey-wrench right in the middle of the "research," doesn't it. Seems you can't make reliable assumptions about the quality of life (or lack thereof) of transitioned people if you can't consistently keep track of them, eh?

I could quote more passages... but I'll leave it there.

I realize neither of us will ever convince the other that we're right. It boils down to opinions and personal preferences. But I come from a position of... and it bears repeating as many times as needed...

I don't, and have never, advocated for denying people of their personal rights, save for some notable exceptions:

• Your rights do not infringe upon MINE.
• Children are kept out of the equation. WHY the insistence on reaching kids at an age where even traditional gender education is still inappropriate? Let parents do their job.
• Women's sports. You can continue scoffing about the minute nature of these incursions... whereas I'll counter that ONE female athlete that is denied a victory, medal, or scholarship, is one athlete TOO MUCH.
• Beauty pageants. Once again... not my bag. But something that was designed strictly for biological women. Leave them as be... and make up your OWN pageants. Is that too much of an ask??
• Other gender-specific examples. Female sports and pageants are but a couple of other endeavors that are meant to be gender-specific.
• Education. Quit punishing members of our esteemed societal sub-group... teachers. The refusal to accomodate someone who identifies as a deer is hardly grounds for dismissal or suspension.
• Vocabulary. THANKFULLY, the "Real Academia Española" (Spain) has so far refused to cave on including these "made-up" pronouns as part of the accepted vernacular. I only wish the English language authorities would have the backbone to do the same.

I fully realize that the LGBTQXYZ Gestapo will eventually win the war. So right now I'm fully enjoying the battles being won by the rest of us. If you want to characterize us by labeling everyone not on your side with words like: "radical right-wing", "demonizing", "picking on the poor, defenseless, unfortunates", etc. I guess that is your prerogative.

Thankfully, I've already raised my own kids... and never had to personally deal with any of this social decay. PLUS... as you accurately stated a couple of posts ago... I do live in a comparatively conservative society, where trends from the States tend to have a lag time. I only wish I could borrow Trump's wall and put it up, complete with state-of-the-art technology to only keep out bullshit societal movements like this one.


P.S. - Sorry to not have included your full quote. But I was "character-limited" by the site. Basically it was your continued, emotional, obviously vested opinions... painting all objectors as "demon, abusive, pitchfork-wielding, bullies", preying on "Bambi-like, defenseless, "please-and-thank-you-muttering", unfortunate, minority" people.

You're passionate about what you defend. Your specialty is business and finance, obviously your field of study. That's fine. I'm highly educated myself. But mostly I'm (life) wise enough to pick my battles. Oh... and unlike some on here (not alluding to you) ... I DO know the difference between scientific research and social media research.

You were originally claiming that "trans kids" was downright nonsense and that they're not able to work out their sexuality at a young age. I showed you a study showing that isn't true. You replied with a completely different argument about surgery and treatment not working.

For what it's worth every major professional medical body in America and elsewhere support current medical treatments for these people:

https://glaad.org/medical-associatio...iscriminatory/

and the place you got your information on has spent forty years on a jihad against anything gay or trans related:

https://glaad.org/gap/heritage-foundation/

The overwhelming evidence of studies and professional medical associations in the western world all say the opposite.



And however you want to justify siding with the bigots on this is up to you. The fact is you're siding with this horrific hate campaign that's terrorising these poor unfortunate people and their families. Most Americans thankfully aren't like this and appear to want to treat these people with love and compassion. You don't have to agree with them, that's your right as an American but you're on the wrong side of history on this one. And we're not heading towards social decay on this. We're heading out of a period of social decay where a bunch of haters and bigots can inflict misery and injury on minorities whether they're black, gay or whatever into an age where human beings of all types can coexist with each other in relative peace and tolerance.

[Kirkland Laing]

If Zelenskyy had surrendered to Trump's extortion in 2019, who knows where we'd be today. Hero of two democracies.

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status...11114316644352







https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status...31490643615744



This fucker spent his career coming up with phrasing and terms to sell GOP policies and put them in politicians' mouths. Job-killing regulations, the death tax instead of the inheritance tax and so on. Responsible for a lot of Republican election success over the years by relentlessly exploiting and politicising every issue there was any mileage in at all. Now he says this. No shit mate.



This is about the first federal indictment, not the one that just happened, but good anyway:

https://twitter.com/DavidCayJ/status...65302941417472





Two nice little bits from the indictment today:



https://twitter.com/sbg1/status/1686500061482536960



and



https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1686496709814132736

[TitoFan]

[QUOTE=Kirkland Laing;1636257]

Please note the "lost track of" point. Hmm... throws a monkey-wrench right in the middle of the "research," doesn't it. Seems you can't make reliable assumptions about the quality of life (or lack thereof) of transitioned people if you can't consistently keep track of them, eh?

I could quote more passages... but I'll leave it there.

I realize neither of us will ever convince the other that we're right. It boils down to opinions and personal preferences. But I come from a position of... and it bears repeating as many times as needed...

I don't, and have never, advocated for denying people of their personal rights, save for some notable exceptions:

• Your rights do not infringe upon MINE.
• Children are kept out of the equation. WHY the insistence on reaching kids at an age where even traditional gender education is still inappropriate? Let parents do their job.
• Women's sports. You can continue scoffing about the minute nature of these incursions... whereas I'll counter that ONE female athlete that is denied a victory, medal, or scholarship, is one athlete TOO MUCH.
• Beauty pageants. Once again... not my bag. But something that was designed strictly for biological women. Leave them as be... and make up your OWN pageants. Is that too much of an ask??
• Other gender-specific examples. Female sports and pageants are but a couple of other endeavors that are meant to be gender-specific.
• Education. Quit punishing members of our esteemed societal sub-group... teachers. The refusal to accomodate someone who identifies as a deer is hardly grounds for dismissal or suspension.
• Vocabulary. THANKFULLY, the "Real Academia Española" (Spain) has so far refused to cave on including these "made-up" pronouns as part of the accepted vernacular. I only wish the English language authorities would have the backbone to do the same.

I fully realize that the LGBTQXYZ Gestapo will eventually win the war. So right now I'm fully enjoying the battles being won by the rest of us. If you want to characterize us by labeling everyone not on your side with words like: "radical right-wing", "demonizing", "picking on the poor, defenseless, unfortunates", etc. I guess that is your prerogative.

Thankfully, I've already raised my own kids... and never had to personally deal with any of this social decay. PLUS... as you accurately stated a couple of posts ago... I do live in a comparatively conservative society, where trends from the States tend to have a lag time. I only wish I could borrow Trump's wall and put it up, complete with state-of-the-art technology to only keep out bullshit societal movements like this one.


P.S. - Sorry to not have included your full quote. But I was "character-limited" by the site. Basically it was your continued, emotional, obviously vested opinions... painting all objectors as "demon, abusive, pitchfork-wielding, bullies", preying on "Bambi-like, defenseless, "please-and-thank-you-muttering", unfortunate, minority" people.

You're passionate about what you defend. Your specialty is business and finance, obviously your field of study. That's fine. I'm highly educated myself. But mostly I'm (life) wise enough to pick my battles. Oh... and unlike some on here (not alluding to you) ... I DO know the difference between scientific research and social media research.

You were originally claiming that "trans kids" was downright nonsense and that they're not able to work out their sexuality at a young age. I showed you a study showing that isn't true. You replied with a completely different argument about surgery and treatment not working.

For what it's worth every major professional medical body in America and elsewhere support current medical treatments for these people:

https://glaad.org/medical-associatio...iscriminatory/

and the place you got your information on has spent forty years on a jihad against anything gay or trans related:

https://glaad.org/gap/heritage-foundation/

The overwhelming evidence of studies and professional medical associations in the western world all say the opposite.



And however you want to justify siding with the bigots on this is up to you. The fact is you're siding with this horrific hate campaign that's terrorising these poor unfortunate people and their families. Most Americans thankfully aren't like this and appear to want to treat these people with love and compassion. You don't have to agree with them, that's your right as an American but you're on the wrong side of history on this one. And we're not heading towards social decay on this. We're heading out of a period of social decay where a bunch of haters and bigots can inflict misery and injury on minorities whether they're black, gay or whatever into an age where human beings of all types can coexist with each other in relative peace and tolerance.

You keep mentioning my "siding with bigots" and other such accusations. Very well. I can see this is leading nowhere, as do most passionate arguments on here.

I'll just leave you with one final question that has gone unanswered.

What part of "not wanting ANY group infringing upon MY rights" do you not understand?

And have you just chosen to ignore my constant distinction between between gays and trans?

[TitoFan]

I've also tried to keep this, however passionate, on a strictly respectable level.

But you've chosen to jump on my wording to say I've claimed that "trans are grabbing kids and taking them to gender clinics", when I clearly clarified that it is the parents of these kids that are doing so.

You said, and I quote, that "There is nothing that you people can't be persuaded to wet the bed over." With that statement alone, you unveiled your unwillingness to even try to see another person's point of view.... personally vested as you seem to be in this topic. I don't think I've addressed you in this manner throughout this whole argument. If someone lumped you into a group you don't belong, you'd rip them a new one. So don't do to others what you don't want done to you.

You joked about me being "terrified of tranny swimmers", always choosing to hyperbolize and draw attention that way. Yet you choose to ignore the questions and points I put forth. To you, it's more convenient to paint me as a homophobic, rifle-toting, MAGA hat-wearing, hate-filled right-wing extremist. You paint the LGBTQXYZ Gestapo as a helpless, unfortunate, quiet, please-and-thank-you, little bunch. You ignore the fact they want to PUSH their agendas, changes, etc, into segments of society where THEY DON'T BELONG.

In short, you're incapable of carrying on a logical argument without your rainbow-waving passion showing through the cracks.

So believe what you will. If you're not going to respect my points of view, don't expect the opposite from me.

[Master]

How dumb are Republicans?

Trump is tearing the party apart and they will not get back into government until they purge themselves of this narcissist.

[TitoFan]

How dumb are Republicans?

Trump is tearing the party apart and they will not get back into government until they purge themselves of this narcissist.

The Republican Party is a sad institution nowadays, having allowed that albatross to be put around their necks. Now you've got the rabid MAGA Trumpeteers, who have lost all grasp on reality and given themselves to idol worship. But you've also got that (I'll borrow a phrase here)... you've got that poor, unfortunate, minority who are fed up with Trump and would like nothing more than for him to just go away. But this tiny unfortunate minority routinely gets shouted down, coerced, insulted, and just plain excluded from Party activities, much like a fraternity or sorority would do.

I'll always admit to my own mental processes. I've always admitted to preferring Trump to Hillary back in 2016. Didn't like either one of them, to tell the truth. But Hillary was SO unlikable, and SO untrustworthy... that it was easy to turn (grudgingly) to Trump. STILL... I disliked Trump since he was a Celebrity Apprentice celebrity getting his rocks off by saying "You're fired!" at different people on his show.

Once Trump became President, the disaster was unleashed.

But back to the "tiny, unfortunate minority." Seriously... there are some good people in there. There are some honest-to-goodness Republicans that just don't share a lot of the ideals in the Democratic Party platform. I tend to identify with those people. I DESPISE Trump... yet I identify with more Republican ideals than Democrat ones. With some NOTABLE exceptions, of course.

So yeah... history will look back on Trump as a man who singlehandedly and almost irreparably damaged the Republican Party.

[Master]

Hillary Clinton would not have caused the division to the nation that Trump did if she won in 2016.

It may have got rid of Trump then and there.

The Republicans should stand up to Trump including DeSantis. Trump has got himself in this trouble, no one else, he is not an innocent victim. They should say it loud and proud.