Middleweight, what’s next?

[Ron Swanson]

Well, okay, so GGG allowed Sanchez to run all over town saying they would never fight Charlo, he leaves Sanchez so he is not tied to that. So let’s look at his actions and see if they contradict what Sanchez said. WBC orders him to fight Charlo, his response is to file an appeal (already done) to not have to fight Charlo. He also contacts Andrade/Saunders and Derevyanchenko/Jacobs. Great options but does it sound like he wants to fight Charlo?

Understand I’m not being condescending in the least, I’m asking your opinion, does that sound like he wants to fight Charlo?

Let me make this perfectly clear because I get the rap of a GGG hater because I have wanted him in tough fights. I think any of Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko or Charlo is awesome and look forward to it and will have great respect for it.[/QUOTE]

When GGG is asked if he would fight Charlo, he says "Of course" or "absolutely".

I don't give a f-ck what Sanchez says, he always talks dumb sh-t. But it seems you are implying that when asked if he would fight Charlo, GGG says he won't, which isn't the case. I can post these vids if you like, but they are easy enough to find.

GGG just fought one of the sports biggest stars, in a multi million dollar payday, in a fight where he (and many) feel, he was on the receiving end of a bad decision. So logically, he wants to right that wrong. It makes the most sense to him for every reason, money, fame, setting the record straight etc. A Canelo fight would be (and is) a priority for any fighter. Not just GGG, who feels he has already beaten him twice.


Like I have said previously the Jacobs/Derevy or Saunders/Andrade winners are more relevant fights, than Charlo, I feel they would be at least similar, if not bigger earners, plus the also would carry titles. A Murata fight would also be much bigger financially (especially in Japan) and also carries a title.

I know titles don't mean sh-t, but when dealing with the likes of GBP, coming in as a mandatory, I would not be surprised to see them attempt to try and use the championship split ‰ to try and limit GGGs earnings. So a title brings a bit more of a bargaining chip to the negotiating table, if and when a 3rd Canelo fight happens.

So a Charlo fight (although a fantastic match up) just didn't really make a lot of sense from GGGs side.

So you are happy to accept when Charlo says he will fight GGG, but won't give GGG the same courtesy?

Charlo tweeted on the day (May have been the day before) the WBC announce GGG/Charlo as an eliminator, that his next fight was in December. Since then nothing, no talk of being disappointed with the WBC about keeping Canelo from him, no talk of not fighting in December and instead focusing on GGG (we know there's no way a GGG fight could be made for December). Now if course there will be negotiations going on behind closed doors that we are unaware of, but that shouldn't stop Jermall from talking about what he wants, GGGs team have already outlined there preferences.

So as to my opinion, yes I believe GGG would want to fight Charlo (as he has said he would) if it was the best scenario for him. Which as I have outlined, it is not really.

Why fight Jermall (what was his best win at 160 again?) when there will be more relevant and more financially rewarding (it is prize fight after all) bouts available. To me that just seems like common sense, not that GGG doesn't want to fight Charlo.[/QUOTE]

So under a different set of circumstances you believe GGG would want to fight but under the current set of circumstances you admit he doesn’t or not? Because you sort of tip toed around that

Keep in mind the know facts that he filed a petition not to fight him and contacted at least 4 other camps about potential fights if the WBC denies his appeal. None of which guarantees him Canelo as a Charlo fight does.

One other thing, why can Canelo fight in December but GGG can’t?

[Alpha]

Well, okay, so GGG allowed Sanchez to run all over town saying they would never fight Charlo, he leaves Sanchez so he is not tied to that. So let’s look at his actions and see if they contradict what Sanchez said. WBC orders him to fight Charlo, his response is to file an appeal (already done) to not have to fight Charlo. He also contacts Andrade/Saunders and Derevyanchenko/Jacobs. Great options but does it sound like he wants to fight Charlo?

Understand I’m not being condescending in the least, I’m asking your opinion, does that sound like he wants to fight Charlo?

Let me make this perfectly clear because I get the rap of a GGG hater because I have wanted him in tough fights. I think any of Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko or Charlo is awesome and look forward to it and will have great respect for it.

When GGG is asked if he would fight Charlo, he says "Of course" or "absolutely".

I don't give a f-ck what Sanchez says, he always talks dumb sh-t. But it seems you are implying that when asked if he would fight Charlo, GGG says he won't, which isn't the case. I can post these vids if you like, but they are easy enough to find.

GGG just fought one of the sports biggest stars, in a multi million dollar payday, in a fight where he (and many) feel, he was on the receiving end of a bad decision. So logically, he wants to right that wrong. It makes the most sense to him for every reason, money, fame, setting the record straight etc. A Canelo fight would be (and is) a priority for any fighter. Not just GGG, who feels he has already beaten him twice.


Like I have said previously the Jacobs/Derevy or Saunders/Andrade winners are more relevant fights, than Charlo, I feel they would be at least similar, if not bigger earners, plus the also would carry titles. A Murata fight would also be much bigger financially (especially in Japan) and also carries a title.

I know titles don't mean sh-t, but when dealing with the likes of GBP, coming in as a mandatory, I would not be surprised to see them attempt to try and use the championship split ‰ to try and limit GGGs earnings. So a title brings a bit more of a bargaining chip to the negotiating table, if and when a 3rd Canelo fight happens.

So a Charlo fight (although a fantastic match up) just didn't really make a lot of sense from GGGs side.

So you are happy to accept when Charlo says he will fight GGG, but won't give GGG the same courtesy?

Charlo tweeted on the day (May have been the day before) the WBC announce GGG/Charlo as an eliminator, that his next fight was in December. Since then nothing, no talk of being disappointed with the WBC about keeping Canelo from him, no talk of not fighting in December and instead focusing on GGG (we know there's no way a GGG fight could be made for December). Now if course there will be negotiations going on behind closed doors that we are unaware of, but that shouldn't stop Jermall from talking about what he wants, GGGs team have already outlined there preferences.

So as to my opinion, yes I believe GGG would want to fight Charlo (as he has said he would) if it was the best scenario for him. Which as I have outlined, it is not really.

Why fight Jermall (what was his best win at 160 again?) when there will be more relevant and more financially rewarding (it is prize fight after all) bouts available. To me that just seems like common sense, not that GGG doesn't want to fight Charlo.[/QUOTE]

So under a different set of circumstances you believe GGG would want to fight but under the current set of circumstances you admit he doesn’t or not? Because you sort of tip toed around that

Keep in mind the know facts that he filed a petition not to fight him and contacted at least 4 other camps about potential fights if the WBC denies his appeal. None of which guarantees him Canelo as a Charlo fight does.

One other thing, why can Canelo fight in December but GGG can’t?[/QUOTE]

I don't think I tip toed around it. This is a business at the end of the day. GGG has already said he would absolutely fight Charlo. What more do you want him to say? Again where's Charlo, you are only taking his word as well right? He hasn't signed a contract for GGG yet has he?

If Charlo was a bigger, more relevant fight, yes GGG would fight him. But as I have pointed out, it's not. Again what's Charlo's best win? The other fights I mentioned would have titles involved, or bigger money, or guys with better wins. I already went into detail of why a title can help in negotiations, I seem to be repeating myself here and going in circles. All these other fights are more relevant in 1 way or another than a Charlo fight. Fighting Charlo, especially now with Canelo at 168, still doesn't give GGG anymore of a guarantee at a Canelo shot. Canelo has demonstrated on several occasions that he won't be dictated to by the sanctioning bodies.

Who's to say if GGG fought (and destroyed Jermall) that that would force Canelo into the ring?

[Alpha]

Sorry, forgot to respond to your last part.

Do you really believe they could put a GGG/ Charlo fight together for December? I'm not saying that GGG can't fight in December, but he is 36 and probably needs a bit of extra time to recover than a younger man, who has previously tested positive for banned substances.

Would Charlo take that fight in December after only 2 rounds in 18 months?

[Ron Swanson]

Sorry, forgot to respond to your last part.

Do you really believe they could put a GGG/ Charlo fight together for December? I'm not saying that GGG can't fight in December, but he is 36 and probably needs a bit of extra time to recover than a younger man, who has previously tested positive for banned substances.

Would Charlo take that fight in December after only 2 rounds in 18 months?

The key difference is we don’t know for a fact Charlo, who has every right to, has petitioned to avoid GGG. We know GGG petitioned to avoid a Charlo fight. We have no evidence Charlo is looking anywhere else, we know GGG has contacted at least 4 other camps besides Canelo’s and we have no evidence GGG has contacted Charlo’s camp.

True we have no evidence Charlo’s camp has contacted GGGs, the difference is who has openly looked elsewhere and openly petitioned to avoid.

It may very well come out Charlo doesn’t want GGG right now. But we know GGG doesn’t want Charlo right now.

We can look at business, next occasion we can look at venues, next occasion...he was GGGs mandatory for over a year.

I don’t think it’s very fair to blame a guy being avoided for his weak opposition until he gets his chance. Once he can choose then it becomes fair to judge. I mean who’s fault is it that Charlo hasn’t faced GGG for example?

I can certainly understand GGG looking at someone else, but looking at everyone else looks bad.

[Ron Swanson]

Further on The Who has he fought front,,,when he and Jacobs went at it he said they could do it next, they could pay step aside money and get it on. Jacobs chose not to. Do we blame Charlo for Jacobs choosing to fight a nobody instead?

Lemieux and Saunders obviously wouldn’t fight him or Jacobs, so do we blame Charlo for them having no interest?

[Alpha]

Sorry, forgot to respond to your last part.

Do you really believe they could put a GGG/ Charlo fight together for December? I'm not saying that GGG can't fight in December, but he is 36 and probably needs a bit of extra time to recover than a younger man, who has previously tested positive for banned substances.

Would Charlo take that fight in December after only 2 rounds in 18 months?

The key difference is we don’t know for a fact Charlo, who has every right to, has petitioned to avoid GGG. We know GGG petitioned to avoid a Charlo fight. We have no evidence Charlo is looking anywhere else, we know GGG has contacted at least 4 other camps besides Canelo’s and we have no evidence GGG has contacted Charlo’s camp.

True we have no evidence Charlo’s camp has contacted GGGs, the difference is who has openly looked elsewhere and openly petitioned to avoid.

It may very well come out Charlo doesn’t want GGG right now. But we know GGG doesn’t want Charlo right now.

We can look at business, next occasion we can look at venues, next occasion...he was GGGs mandatory for over a year.

I don’t think it’s very fair to blame a guy being avoided for his weak opposition until he gets his chance. Once he can choose then it becomes fair to judge. I mean who’s fault is it that Charlo hasn’t faced GGG for example?

I can certainly understand GGG looking at someone else, but looking at everyone else looks bad.

Like I have pointed out, the Charlo fight is not as relevant as the others for 1 reason or another.

If Charlo brought GGG 40 million, GGG would fight him tomorrow. GGG has said he would fight him.

Charlo won't even bring in as much as a Murata fight in Japan would, GGG will be idolized over there.

The winner of either of the middleweight title fights, will obviously have a better name on there records than Charlo has, as well as a title.

Of course Charlo would want GGG or Canelo for that matter, that's common sense, you don't call out guys below you, and the purses he would get for those fights will be career highs.

What does Charlo bring to the table? Other that being a top fight?

I think it's unfair to say GGG is avoiding Charlo, sure Charlo may have been mandatory but we all know the sanctioning bodies are ridiculous. Who did Charlo beat to get that spot again?

Unfortunately Charlo just isn't in that bracket yet, and if you feel beating the likes of Heiland and Centeno should put him ahead of Jacobs (who arguably beat GGG) and is not fighting another top middleweight, or Saunders/ Andrade, or a huge even against Murata, then that's fine, that's your opinion. I definitely feel a Charlo fight would be more difficult than some of those, but he needs to get in line.

[Alpha]

Further on The Who has he fought front,,,when he and Jacobs went at it he said they could do it next, they could pay step aside money and get it on. Jacobs chose not to. Do we blame Charlo for Jacobs choosing to fight a nobody instead?

Lemieux and Saunders obviously wouldn’t fight him or Jacobs, so do we blame Charlo for them having no interest?

No ones blaming Charlo for not getting these fights, but he doesn't get credit for it either. When did he last fight. I feel sorry for both Charlo's. Very badly managed.

[Ron Swanson]

Further on The Who has he fought front,,,when he and Jacobs went at it he said they could do it next, they could pay step aside money and get it on. Jacobs chose not to. Do we blame Charlo for Jacobs choosing to fight a nobody instead?

Lemieux and Saunders obviously wouldn’t fight him or Jacobs, so do we blame Charlo for them having no interest?

No ones blaming Charlo for not getting these fights, but he doesn't get credit for it either. When did he last fight. I feel sorry for both Charlo's. Very badly managed.

But you are blaming Charlo when you keep saying who has he fought.

And speaking of previous post you say we can’t say GGG is avoiding him, he literally petitioned to avoid him. So he is avoiding him. Sure, he has his reasons. And I don’t have a problem with them. My issue is that we must acknowledge that he is avoiding him.

Like I’ve said, the other fights are good fights. I won’t complain about any of them. But it is not an insult to say GGG is avoiding Charlo, it’s just a fact. It’s 82 degrees outside and GGG is avoiding Charlo.

[Alpha]

Further on The Who has he fought front,,,when he and Jacobs went at it he said they could do it next, they could pay step aside money and get it on. Jacobs chose not to. Do we blame Charlo for Jacobs choosing to fight a nobody instead?

Lemieux and Saunders obviously wouldn’t fight him or Jacobs, so do we blame Charlo for them having no interest?

No ones blaming Charlo for not getting these fights, but he doesn't get credit for it either. When did he last fight. I feel sorry for both Charlo's. Very badly managed.

But you are blaming Charlo when you keep saying who has he fought.

And speaking of previous post you say we can’t say GGG is avoiding him, he literally petitioned to avoid him. So he is avoiding him. Sure, he has his reasons. And I don’t have a problem with them. My issue is that we must acknowledge that he is avoiding him.

Like I’ve said, the other fights are good fights. I won’t complain about any of them. But it is not an insult to say GGG is avoiding Charlo, it’s just a fact. It’s 82 degrees outside and GGG is avoiding Charlo.

I'm not blaming Charlo, but who has he fought? You want to talk about facts but ignore the obvious. It's not his entire fault that he hasn't got the big fights, but it is a fact that he has no decent wins at 160. Not blaming, just stating a fact.

If you think GGG is avoiding Charlo, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I have gone into detail in this thread on why other fights are more relevant. Like I said, you don't go after guys that are below you. They come after you. A Charlo fight is just not relevant (no matter how good a match up it is) to GGGs plans at this stage. Of course Charlo wants these big money fights, he doesn't want to keep fighting the Centeno's of the world. GGG is chasing the bigger, better fights. Canelo over Charlo is an obvious choice right? GGG is trying to do whats best for his career, as is Charlo. Fighting and beating Charlo does nothing for GGG at this stage, it still doesn't guarantee him a shot at Canelo. Beating the winners of the upcoming middleweight title fights hold more value on legacy. GGG is in a no win situation with Charlo, if he fights and beats him, people will say, "Who did Charlo beat?", "What had Charlo done at 160?". At least Jacobs and Saunders have won titles at the weight and have recorded some decent victories at the weight.

Charlo will probably fight someone like Monroe Jr, if he fights in December, to shake of some rust and keep his WBC interim title. Should we then say Charlo is avoiding GGG?

[Alpha]

If anyone's avoiding Charlo, it's Canelo.

[Ron Swanson]

If anyone's avoiding Charlo, it's Canelo.

Canelo didn’t file a petition asking to avoid Charlo.

[Alpha]

If anyone's avoiding Charlo, it's Canelo.

Canelo didn’t file a petition asking to avoid Charlo.

He didn't ask for an immediate rematch to 'avoid' Charlo. He filed it because he feels he deserves it and it's worth 40 mil against one of the biggest stars in the sport. Charlo is not even in the equation.

Canelo used the WBC to avoid both Charlo and GGG.

[Alpha]

Also I don't think GGGs team have decided what route to take yet. They haven't said they won't take the ordered Charlo fight. Has Charlo's team confirmed they'll take the ordered fight? Because I haven't seen anything.

Charlo is unproven at 160. No ones avoiding him.

[Ron Swanson]

Canelo has a fight lined up. They haven’t withdrawn the petition. So it is literally to avoid Charlo. He wants the mandatory spot without fighting him. It is by definition to avoid him.

Like you say, he has other options, and they are fine. But the petition is textbook avoiding.

[Alpha]

Canelo has a fight lined up. They haven’t withdrawn the petition. So it is literally to avoid Charlo. He wants the mandatory spot without fighting him. It is by definition to avoid him.

Like you say, he has other options, and they are fine. But the petition is textbook avoiding.

Completely disagree. The king doesn't mingle with the peasants.

Charlo is still at the kids table.