Saunders v Andrade - Boston 20/10/18 - Sky/DAZN - CANCELLED

[Alpha]

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

Shame you didn't tell us the underdog (Brant) would pull an obvious upset, we would have all been minted. The bookies thought the fight was much more competitive than "boxrec experts."

Juergen Braehmer schooled Brant, he would be a talented guy for Golovkin. Agree?

Yea those cards were way to wide. Brant won but it was closer. I had it 116-112.

Murata was so 'basic' he was a 6-1 favorite. Brant is a good fighter and set a tremendous pace. Murata fought 1 dimensionally, just trying to land his big right hand. Upsets happen, no one here saw this coming, or if they did, never posted about it.

He fought one dimensional but he wasn’t basic? Is that the argument?

Because I was quite clear before the fight just how basic he is. One dimensional sounds like basic to me.

Styles make fights, didn't hear you say anything about Brant winning. I haven't seen Murata fight that badly before. He was just loading that right.

I’ve never seen Brant fight, I wouldn’t make a prediction on him. I don’t make many predictions on fights at all actually. I more point to abilities and weaknesses. Like GGG having fantastic punch selection but the drawback of tipping his punches. If his left elbow is tight he’s looking down the middle 1-2, if it flairs a few inches he’s going to come around with the hook. These types of things can be used for others more arrogant to predict fights. I just speak on talent and on my obnoxious desire to see great fighters take good fights against talented fighters. And then I read the insults of me for daring to ask fighters to fight hahaha

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

This is the problem, Ron. It sticks out like a sore thumb when fans speak about fighters they no nothing about.

It was Murata I called basic, you called top 5. Who knows nothing about Murata? Get something right before you come at me. Just one thing right. I’ll enjoy the silence.

Yea but if you don't make any predictions before hand then it's irrelevant. Are you trying to say that you thought Brant would win? Upsets can happen. Are you trying to say you always pick the correct winner? We all get fights wrong. Have you even watch this fight yet? 160 isn't that deep, it would be perfectly acceptable to still have Murata ranked between 10 and 15 in the division.

[Fenster]

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

Shame you didn't tell us the underdog (Brant) would pull an obvious upset, we would have all been minted. The bookies thought the fight was much more competitive than "boxrec experts."

Juergen Braehmer schooled Brant, he would be a talented guy for Golovkin. Agree?

Yea those cards were way to wide. Brant won but it was closer. I had it 116-112.

Murata was so 'basic' he was a 6-1 favorite. Brant is a good fighter and set a tremendous pace. Murata fought 1 dimensionally, just trying to land his big right hand. Upsets happen, no one here saw this coming, or if they did, never posted about it.

He fought one dimensional but he wasn’t basic? Is that the argument?

Because I was quite clear before the fight just how basic he is. One dimensional sounds like basic to me.

Styles make fights, didn't hear you say anything about Brant winning. I haven't seen Murata fight that badly before. He was just loading that right.

I’ve never seen Brant fight, I wouldn’t make a prediction on him. I don’t make many predictions on fights at all actually. I more point to abilities and weaknesses. Like GGG having fantastic punch selection but the drawback of tipping his punches. If his left elbow is tight he’s looking down the middle 1-2, if it flairs a few inches he’s going to come around with the hook. These types of things can be used for others more arrogant to predict fights. I just speak on talent and on my obnoxious desire to see great fighters take good fights against talented fighters. And then I read the insults of me for daring to ask fighters to fight hahaha

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

This is the problem, Ron. It sticks out like a sore thumb when fans speak about fighters they know nothing about.

It was Murata I called basic, you called top 5. Who knows nothing about Murata? Get something right before you come at me. Just one thing right. I’ll enjoy the silence.

Come at you? You're running around gloating about being proven right about something you didn't even predict whilst accusing anyone who said Murata made viable sense for Golovkin of being a fool (you quoted me).

Rankings change every single week, they are constantly evolving, that's the whole point. You don't get to pick and choose your favourite fighters.

Charlo hasn't done shit at 160. Fact. He doesn't "deserve" special treatment just because he's Ron's favourite guy.

[Ron Swanson]

You have strongly voiced opinions, Ron.... which is good. We also don't always agree, which is good also. If I were to read a tone into what you just wrote, I'd interpret that you're saying GGG doesn't exactly want to fight the best because he was aiming for Murata. Fair enough... that might be your opinion. I, however, have always felt GGG will fight anybody. He and the "other dude at middleweight" are at opposite sides of the ducking and avoiding spectrum. You can't blame GGG for aiming for Murata. He was to fight Murata in Japan. That alone puts him head and shoulders above that "other dude at middleweight" who can't be budged from Las Vegas (well.... maybe to Texas). That says a LOT. When you don't have corrupt judges holding a net below you.... when you brave hostile crowds and maybe some home cooking judging.... you're doing what you can. If we fans don't agree with Opponent X or Opponent Y.... it's probably a bit unfair to dump that on GGG's lap. I can understand when you say you don't want GGG to lose... only to fight the best. Believe me.... the day GGG actually ducks somebody (or asks for a fight to be marinated).... I'll be first in line calling him a ducker. Meanwhile, we gotta be patient and let the big fights materialize. My opinion, of course.

Before you get all hot about the ducking thing, reread what you said about expecting him to sit out waiting on the "other dude at middleweight". That infers he'll pass on other opportunities for whatever reason. IMO Golovkin has never given his fans any reason he'll avoid any fight.

Perhaps you don’t recall before Canelo 1 I believe it was you and I discussing the Canelo fight. I didn’t want it because I want him to fight the best. But we agreed that everyone would go after that Canelo money. The discussion was concluded with after Canelo he will fight the top guys. I doubted that because of what had proceeded.

Since Canelo has been Martirosyan, why? Cost him a belt because he quite literally didn’t take the comers. Canelo again, can’t refuse that money, understandable. Charlo was his mandatory for over a year, when ordered to fight him he filed a petition to avoid, literally again not taking the comers. Looking at Murata, is he the comer? Nobody had Murata as one of the best in the division until GGG wanted him then you have guys like Fenster adjust his rating to top 5. Clearly incorrectly. The dude is 36, when does he take the comers?

The guy seems like a willing guy but his entire career suggests otherwise.

Let’s not forget that he was willing to go to 168 for Steiglitz. But when Ward challenged he was too busy cleaning out 160. But willing to go to 168 for Froch, cleaning out 160. Willing to go to 168 for Chavez, cleaning out 160.

Is 160 cleaned out at all? Most would say the top guys at 160 are

GGG, Canelo, Jacobs, Charlo, Saunders, Derevyanchenko.

Most would say he didn’t clean out Jacobs, in fact most would say Jacobs deserved a rematch. It will be 2 years since, no rematch. Charlo was his mandatory over a year, no match. Derevyanchenko he lost his belt choosing Martirosyan. Fair play on Canelo but I think we would both agree Jacobs and Charlo are more dangerous to GGG because of size, speed. The literal comers Jacobs, Charlo, Deveryanchenko didn’t get taken.

Understand my point is not that GGG can’t fight or won’t fight. It’s that he has no obligations now so he can take the comers. Fingers crossed he does. I’ve just seen every choice be changed and built so I expect some name to come out of left field and it be built or him to wait on Canelo. Really hope I’m wrong

(As far as the other guy, I don’t really care about Canelo. I think he is a fraud. I’m harder on GGG because I don’t think he is a fraud. If I respect someone I want to see the substance match the accolades)

[Ron Swanson]

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

Shame you didn't tell us the underdog (Brant) would pull an obvious upset, we would have all been minted. The bookies thought the fight was much more competitive than "boxrec experts."

Juergen Braehmer schooled Brant, he would be a talented guy for Golovkin. Agree?

Yea those cards were way to wide. Brant won but it was closer. I had it 116-112.

Murata was so 'basic' he was a 6-1 favorite. Brant is a good fighter and set a tremendous pace. Murata fought 1 dimensionally, just trying to land his big right hand. Upsets happen, no one here saw this coming, or if they did, never posted about it.

He fought one dimensional but he wasn’t basic? Is that the argument?

Because I was quite clear before the fight just how basic he is. One dimensional sounds like basic to me.

Styles make fights, didn't hear you say anything about Brant winning. I haven't seen Murata fight that badly before. He was just loading that right.

I’ve never seen Brant fight, I wouldn’t make a prediction on him. I don’t make many predictions on fights at all actually. I more point to abilities and weaknesses. Like GGG having fantastic punch selection but the drawback of tipping his punches. If his left elbow is tight he’s looking down the middle 1-2, if it flairs a few inches he’s going to come around with the hook. These types of things can be used for others more arrogant to predict fights. I just speak on talent and on my obnoxious desire to see great fighters take good fights against talented fighters. And then I read the insults of me for daring to ask fighters to fight hahaha

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

This is the problem, Ron. It sticks out like a sore thumb when fans speak about fighters they know nothing about.

It was Murata I called basic, you called top 5. Who knows nothing about Murata? Get something right before you come at me. Just one thing right. I’ll enjoy the silence.

Come at you? You're running around gloating about being proven right about something you didn't even predict whilst accusing anyone who said Murata made viable sense for Golovkin of being a fool (you quoted me).

Rankings change every single week, they are constantly evolving, that's the whole point. You don't get to pick and choose your favourite fighters.

Charlo hasn't done shit at 160. Fact. He doesn't "deserve" special treatment just because he's Ron's favourite guy.

You can’t get a single thing right. So you paint a picture over the truth to fit your narratives. You said Murata was top 5, own it. I said he was basic. You say Charlo is my guy, again completely wrong. As others will probably remember and you can go back to the rankings thread to see it yourself. I don’t know if Charlo is number 1 or number 7. I want the Charlo fight not because I am a fan as your attempt to build a narrative would suggest. But because I want to know how good Charlo is. He is clearly more talented than Murata so it interests me more. But he might get hit in the mouth and become a mouse. That’s why I want the fight. To see who is the best of the most talented fighters. Stop trying to tear me down with incorrect assertions and argue a point. It’s a very troll technique. You said yourself you think Charlo would beat Murata, then how did you rate Murata top 5? It’s you that is inconsistent. Check my history, I only ask for top guys to fight top guys, completely consistent. Whether I like them or not. All I want is answers about who is the best and to see it unfold. You are the one that lets use rankings here, they don’t count here, here, not here. I am all eye test and fights. And if you check my record my eye for talent is pretty f’n good. I admit when I’m wrong about guys. And I give credit for performance whether I like the guy or not.

[Ron Swanson]

I keep writing replies that turn into books so I erase them “nobody wants to read a book”

I’ll keep it simple. I want to see the same thing from GGG I’ve always wanted to see, him fight guys I believe are his most talented potential opponents. I didn’t believe Murata was that and I still don’t

People probably think I want to see GGG lose, that is not the case. I want to see greatness in sports.

Murata is no longer an option, I’m glad. I hope he fights someone that proves something about the division. I expect him to sit out waiting on Canelo, I really hope I’m wrong

Novel's have their time and place and if your passionate about what your saying people will take the time to read.

No one, and I repeat NO ONE here said Murata was the best. It was a fight, that upon a Canelo fight not emerging, then presented the best opportunities for GGG at this stage of his career. The big money in Japan, the viewing audience there, the 'belt' for negotiations etc. No one believed Murata was the most talented or had the most potential. Both Fenster and myself stated that we feel Charlo beats Murata.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want GGG to get Canelo again next. It's prize fighting, that's the biggest possible purse. From a fans point of view, yes we want the best fighting the best, but these guys have families and only a limited window to make their name and fortune in the game. Everyone wants to make the most money they possibly can right?

You can't blame GGG for looking for the biggest earning fights at this stage of his career on one hand but on the other keep silent on Charlo looking to fight Monroe Jr or Sulecki. I haven't even heard him complaining that the WBC screwed him and are keeping Canelo from his reach. GGG is not the champion now. GGG has no obligation to Charlo at this stage, he no longer holds the belts. I can't work out Charlo's silence, shouldn't he be everywhere calling out the champ? Maybe uncle Al has told him to keep quiet.

Before Canelo it was allow this it’s the payday then he can fight the top guys. 2 years have passed. When do we get the top guys? This is my point. 2 years ago we decided Jacobs deserved a rematch. Why Martirosyan, why Murata, money? I thought the Canelo fights were for the money and the other fights would be the top guys. I can’t for the life of me figure out when we are going to get the top guys.

It blows my mind you all watch this great fighter not realizing his potential and you’re okay with it.

[palmerq]

Ron Swanson is like a demented terrier. .. excellent work....


I was quite drunk last night, building a weird tortoise shed with an asian roof, started drinking way too early, Andrade seemed pretty good but the other guy just didn't look good at all.. I could be well wrong though...not sure if hed beat Saunders, he seems to crouch a bit and give up his height advantage. .. I realty hope he does beat Saunders though... can't stand that guy...

[p4pking]

Ron Swanson is like a demented terrier. .. excellent work....


I was quite drunk last night, building a weird tortoise shed with an asian roof, started drinking way too early, Andrade seemed pretty good but the other guy just didn't look good at all.. I could be well wrong though...not sure if hed beat Saunders, he seems to crouch a bit and give up his height advantage. .. I realty hope he does beat Saunders though... can't stand that guy...

No shame in that, when I start drinking too early I haul my weird tortoise out of his shed and scream at him to build a dog house with a Roof made of Swansons hungry man dinners. It’s a good thing he can’t build a real terrier, as that dog would be soaking wet all day, which could only add to his dementia.

[Ron Swanson]

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

Shame you didn't tell us the underdog (Brant) would pull an obvious upset, we would have all been minted. The bookies thought the fight was much more competitive than "boxrec experts."

Juergen Braehmer schooled Brant, he would be a talented guy for Golovkin. Agree?

Yea those cards were way to wide. Brant won but it was closer. I had it 116-112.

Murata was so 'basic' he was a 6-1 favorite. Brant is a good fighter and set a tremendous pace. Murata fought 1 dimensionally, just trying to land his big right hand. Upsets happen, no one here saw this coming, or if they did, never posted about it.

He fought one dimensional but he wasn’t basic? Is that the argument?

Because I was quite clear before the fight just how basic he is. One dimensional sounds like basic to me.

Styles make fights, didn't hear you say anything about Brant winning. I haven't seen Murata fight that badly before. He was just loading that right.

I’ve never seen Brant fight, I wouldn’t make a prediction on him. I don’t make many predictions on fights at all actually. I more point to abilities and weaknesses. Like GGG having fantastic punch selection but the drawback of tipping his punches. If his left elbow is tight he’s looking down the middle 1-2, if it flairs a few inches he’s going to come around with the hook. These types of things can be used for others more arrogant to predict fights. I just speak on talent and on my obnoxious desire to see great fighters take good fights against talented fighters. And then I read the insults of me for daring to ask fighters to fight hahaha

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

This is the problem, Ron. It sticks out like a sore thumb when fans speak about fighters they no nothing about.

It was Murata I called basic, you called top 5. Who knows nothing about Murata? Get something right before you come at me. Just one thing right. I’ll enjoy the silence.

Yea but if you don't make any predictions before hand then it's irrelevant. Are you trying to say that you thought Brant would win? Upsets can happen. Are you trying to say you always pick the correct winner? We all get fights wrong. Have you even watch this fight yet? 160 isn't that deep, it would be perfectly acceptable to still have Murata ranked between 10 and 15 in the division.

You’re pulling a lot of stuff out of the air there fella haha

I’m saying I watched Murata, he was very sound, looked to have a strong right but no flash and I decided he was basic.

For me to believe a fighter is elite I need to see something that jumps out at me “F that was good”.

Also, I didn’t say I don’t make any predictions. I said hardly any. (Or I misspoke)If I have lots of information on both fighters i’ll generally make a prediction if I’m very confident. Not on mismatches because who cares. But big fights, sure. If I’m not confident I don’t see the value in a prediction. “I don’t know but i’ll Guess and my guess has value” illogical to me. I get why others do it, just doesn’t suit me.

As for the fight, I watched some. No reason really to watch him for me now. I’ll watch 3/4 fights a day if a guy has a big fight coming but if there’s nothing coming and I don’t find the guy entertaining, no reason.

Edit-that was hard to post. Can’t stand talking about myself. Seems like I’m doing that too much so I will probably be posting less. Been a fun bit arguing with you all though

[Alpha]

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

Shame you didn't tell us the underdog (Brant) would pull an obvious upset, we would have all been minted. The bookies thought the fight was much more competitive than "boxrec experts."

Juergen Braehmer schooled Brant, he would be a talented guy for Golovkin. Agree?

Yea those cards were way to wide. Brant won but it was closer. I had it 116-112.

Murata was so 'basic' he was a 6-1 favorite. Brant is a good fighter and set a tremendous pace. Murata fought 1 dimensionally, just trying to land his big right hand. Upsets happen, no one here saw this coming, or if they did, never posted about it.

He fought one dimensional but he wasn’t basic? Is that the argument?

Because I was quite clear before the fight just how basic he is. One dimensional sounds like basic to me.

Styles make fights, didn't hear you say anything about Brant winning. I haven't seen Murata fight that badly before. He was just loading that right.

I’ve never seen Brant fight, I wouldn’t make a prediction on him. I don’t make many predictions on fights at all actually. I more point to abilities and weaknesses. Like GGG having fantastic punch selection but the drawback of tipping his punches. If his left elbow is tight he’s looking down the middle 1-2, if it flairs a few inches he’s going to come around with the hook. These types of things can be used for others more arrogant to predict fights. I just speak on talent and on my obnoxious desire to see great fighters take good fights against talented fighters. And then I read the insults of me for daring to ask fighters to fight hahaha

I told you all Murata was basic and it was a BS fight for GGG to look at. He needs to fight someone talented

This is the problem, Ron. It sticks out like a sore thumb when fans speak about fighters they no nothing about.

It was Murata I called basic, you called top 5. Who knows nothing about Murata? Get something right before you come at me. Just one thing right. I’ll enjoy the silence.

Yea but if you don't make any predictions before hand then it's irrelevant. Are you trying to say that you thought Brant would win? Upsets can happen. Are you trying to say you always pick the correct winner? We all get fights wrong. Have you even watch this fight yet? 160 isn't that deep, it would be perfectly acceptable to still have Murata ranked between 10 and 15 in the division.

You’re pulling a lot of stuff out of the air there fella haha

I’m saying I watched Murata, he was very sound, looked to have a strong right but no flash and I decided he was basic.

For me to believe a fighter is elite I need to see something that jumps out at me “F that was good”.

Also, I didn’t say I don’t make any predictions. I said hardly any. (Or I misspoke)If I have lots of information on both fighters i’ll generally make a prediction if I’m very confident. Not on mismatches because who cares. But big fights, sure. If I’m not confident I don’t see the value in a prediction. “I don’t know but i’ll Guess and my guess has value” illogical to me. I get why others do it, just doesn’t suit me.

As for the fight, I watched some. No reason really to watch him for me now. I’ll watch 3/4 fights a day if a guy has a big fight coming but if there’s nothing coming and I don’t find the guy entertaining, no reason.

Edit-that was hard to post. Can’t stand talking about myself. Seems like I’m doing that too much so I will probably be posting less. Been a fun bit arguing with you all though

I'm not trying to pull out anything, just trying to put what you're saying into perspective. Upsets happen. Brant threw over 1200 punches, a completely different fight from the one he fought against Braehmer. If you were saying before the fight "Murata is basic, he'll lose to Brant", we'd pay attention. But the truth is more than likely you would have been in agreement with us. As you say, why predict on a mis-match?

I like the eye test too, but they need to do something in the ring and division they are in, to enforce what we are seeing. There have been many fighters I thought looked fantastic, until running into a better fighter. Murata's win over N'Jikam was better than Charlo's Heiland and Cermeno for many. We all agree Charlo is the better fighter but his record at 160 is lacking.

For example, I think Usyk is a better fighter than most of the guys at heavyweight, but I don't rate him #1 there because his work at the weight doesn't warrant it.

[Fenster]

Crawford is ranked higher P4P than Errol Spence - by everyone in the world - yet Spence is the no.1 rated welterweight. Why? Because Spence has by far the superior form/record/wins at 147. @Ron Swanson

Inoue is a three weight "world" champion P4P-er but was ranked 2nd in the WBSS behind Ryan Burnett. Why? Because Burnett was a unified champion at bantam before Inoue even fought in the division.

I regarded Canelo behind Jacobs and Saunders at middleweight, even though he was lineal after beating a "shot" Cotto, until he proved himself against Golovkin.

These aren't contradictions or inconsistencies @sir Ronald Swanson. It's the fairest most consistent way to judge each division, by simply awarding the men who beat the best fighters.

I hope Charlo gets himself a big fight and proves your eye balls are sharper than a prime Ronnie O'Sullivan at the Crucible, however, everyone has to play by the same rules.

[TitoFan]

You have strongly voiced opinions, Ron.... which is good. We also don't always agree, which is good also. If I were to read a tone into what you just wrote, I'd interpret that you're saying GGG doesn't exactly want to fight the best because he was aiming for Murata. Fair enough... that might be your opinion. I, however, have always felt GGG will fight anybody. He and the "other dude at middleweight" are at opposite sides of the ducking and avoiding spectrum. You can't blame GGG for aiming for Murata. He was to fight Murata in Japan. That alone puts him head and shoulders above that "other dude at middleweight" who can't be budged from Las Vegas (well.... maybe to Texas). That says a LOT. When you don't have corrupt judges holding a net below you.... when you brave hostile crowds and maybe some home cooking judging.... you're doing what you can. If we fans don't agree with Opponent X or Opponent Y.... it's probably a bit unfair to dump that on GGG's lap. I can understand when you say you don't want GGG to lose... only to fight the best. Believe me.... the day GGG actually ducks somebody (or asks for a fight to be marinated).... I'll be first in line calling him a ducker. Meanwhile, we gotta be patient and let the big fights materialize. My opinion, of course.

Before you get all hot about the ducking thing, reread what you said about expecting him to sit out waiting on the "other dude at middleweight". That infers he'll pass on other opportunities for whatever reason. IMO Golovkin has never given his fans any reason he'll avoid any fight.

Perhaps you don’t recall before Canelo 1 I believe it was you and I discussing the Canelo fight. I didn’t want it because I want him to fight the best. But we agreed that everyone would go after that Canelo money. The discussion was concluded with after Canelo he will fight the top guys. I doubted that because of what had proceeded.

Since Canelo has been Martirosyan, why? Cost him a belt because he quite literally didn’t take the comers. Canelo again, can’t refuse that money, understandable. Charlo was his mandatory for over a year, when ordered to fight him he filed a petition to avoid, literally again not taking the comers. Looking at Murata, is he the comer? Nobody had Murata as one of the best in the division until GGG wanted him then you have guys like Fenster adjust his rating to top 5. Clearly incorrectly. The dude is 36, when does he take the comers?

The guy seems like a willing guy but his entire career suggests otherwise.

Let’s not forget that he was willing to go to 168 for Steiglitz. But when Ward challenged he was too busy cleaning out 160. But willing to go to 168 for Froch, cleaning out 160. Willing to go to 168 for Chavez, cleaning out 160.

Is 160 cleaned out at all? Most would say the top guys at 160 are

GGG, Canelo, Jacobs, Charlo, Saunders, Derevyanchenko.

Most would say he didn’t clean out Jacobs, in fact most would say Jacobs deserved a rematch. It will be 2 years since, no rematch. Charlo was his mandatory over a year, no match. Derevyanchenko he lost his belt choosing Martirosyan. Fair play on Canelo but I think we would both agree Jacobs and Charlo are more dangerous to GGG because of size, speed. The literal comers Jacobs, Charlo, Deveryanchenko didn’t get taken.

Understand my point is not that GGG can’t fight or won’t fight. It’s that he has no obligations now so he can take the comers. Fingers crossed he does. I’ve just seen every choice be changed and built so I expect some name to come out of left field and it be built or him to wait on Canelo. Really hope I’m wrong

(As far as the other guy, I don’t really care about Canelo. I think he is a fraud. I’m harder on GGG because I don’t think he is a fraud. If I respect someone I want to see the substance match the accolades)

Ron, you make it sound like GGG was picking "this" and not "that" when talking about 168. You also sound frustrated, and I've heard others be, about his not ever fighting Ward, who would've had to come down from 175. What on Earth would have that accomplished, other than get GGG a predictable one-sided beating from someone much bigger than him and a much better boxer to boot. Going back to some of GGG's comments, all I've seen is him saying at some point that he would go up to 168 if there were good fights to be made. I'm not going to burn him at the stake for that comment. He didn't call out names, saying "uhhh, ok this guy but not that guy". He expressed an interest to fight. Again... I've never seen Golovkin actually duck anyone. I see Abel Sanchez having been quoted saying stuff about Charlo. That, admittedly, is puzzling. I hate it when trainers in general open their big mouths and talk so much bullshit. But again I'm hesitant to dump this all on Golovkin's lap. Maybe I'm softer on him than you are because I compare him against the scourge of boxing. Sort of like Mother Theresa vs. Genghis Khan.

But faith. Golovkin's not done yet. And with any luck, Canelo's Mafia...... er..... I mean...... Mauricio Sulaiman and the WBC will coerce GGG to fight all the nasty opposition that Canelito himself will NEVER FIGHT and always manage to avoid.

[Alpha]

Crawford is ranked higher P4P than Errol Spence - by everyone in the world - yet Spence is the no.1 rated welterweight. Why? Because Spence has by far the superior form/record/wins at 147. @Ron Swanson

Inoue is a three weight "world" champion P4P-er but was ranked 2nd in the WBSS behind Ryan Burnett. Why? Because Burnett was a unified champion at bantam before Inoue even fought in the division.

I regarded Canelo behind Jacobs and Saunders at middleweight, even though he was lineal after beating a "shot" Cotto, until he proved himself against Golovkin.

These aren't contradictions or inconsistencies @sir Ronald Swanson. It's the fairest most consistent way to judge each division, by simply awarding the men who beat the best fighters.

I hope Charlo gets himself a big fight and proves your eye balls are sharper than a prime Ronnie O'Sullivan at the Crucible, however, everyone has to play by the same rules.

Fenster dropping red pills left and right