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Thread: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    @Alpha, circling back on the comment of Usyk having the better competition when compared to Loma. He has beaten the best of his division, for sure (and had some good, tough fights along the way), but I feel like cruiserweights have historically been a less talented division/group. This may be because I became a fan in the 80s and after Evander left there wasn’t much talent or love for the cruisers and I’m biased. I just always felt, even when I competed, that the comp around the smaller to middle weights were much tougher since the talent pool was so kick larger. I recognize that this may just be my personal bias, but interested in other people’s perspectives.

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    @Alpha, circling back on the comment of Usyk having the better competition when compared to Loma. He has beaten the best of his division, for sure (and had some good, tough fights along the way), but I feel like cruiserweights have historically been a less talented division/group. This may be because I became a fan in the 80s and after Evander left there wasn’t much talent or love for the cruisers and I’m biased. I just always felt, even when I competed, that the comp around the smaller to middle weights were much tougher since the talent pool was so kick larger. I recognize that this may just be my personal bias, but interested in other people’s perspectives.

    I didn’t become a fan of breathing until the late 80s, so I probably can’t offer you a lot of insight, but I have thought that cruisers have often been underrated in recent years. There is nothing close to the weight difference between either side of it. You’re talking a lot on either side. It’s also a pretty easy case to argue that guys in general are less coordinated/talented the bigger they are. I feel like a lot of very good fighters fall victim to just being the wrong size to compete in a more glamorous division, and that a lot of extremely good fighters only moved up to HW for the financial benefit and notoriety. Holyfield’s as good an example as any. He was almost certainly juiced to the gills his whole career at HW, and his average weight was what, 215?

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Haha fan of breathing 😂 F-ckin auto correct aye?

    Size has never really mattered to me, I prefer to go of opposition and what I see in front of me.

    Remember the current cruisers are about the same size roughly as some of our favourite heavies, Big George never really got much over 220 until after his comeback. Ali was his best around 210. Today's cruisers rehydrate to at least that.

    I'm pretty sure watching Usyk we can all agree that he is a fantastic fighter. It's sort of the same as Ricardo Lopez (not comparing him to Usyk) just that his form was punch perfect and in that only many rate him as a great, the opposition is what let's him down.

    Just a few of my thoughts on it.

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    I thought it was a folksy way of saying he was born in the late 80s haha

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Yea man, you finally got something right!

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Yea man, you finally got something right!
    Thanks 😂

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    It would be fairer if we listed the negatives about Crawford's opposition, like has been done for Loma, instead of focusing on only positives. Or at least acknowledge the positives of Loma's opposition.

    It's easy to pick holes in any fighters record and spin it however you want. The pro-Crawford camp instantly say - "too small" - about a bonafide P4P elite in Rigo whilst ignoring Gamboa was a natural featherweight who moved back down to 130 after facing Crawford. His only fight at 135 he struggled to a PTS win over Darleys Perez, a man Crolla and Campbell knocked out before losing to Linares (the supposed weak resume guy who was a three-weight champion and WBC and WBA and Ring at 135).

    Postol? Best win is a "shot" Matthysse, then lost against a 12-0 British prospect.

    Indongo? Best win is an upset over a "shot" Burns, then got annihilated inside 6 minutes by Prograis.

    Beltran? Just the 7 other losses besides Crawford for a drug cheat.

    Diaz? Benavidez? Dulorme? They haven't even won an alphabet between them.
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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    It would be fairer if we listed the negatives about Crawford's opposition, like has been done for Loma, instead of focusing on only positives. Or at least acknowledge the positives of Loma's opposition.

    It's easy to pick holes in any fighters record and spin it however you want. The pro-Crawford camp instantly say - "too small" - about a bonafide P4P elite in Rigo whilst ignoring Gamboa was a natural featherweight who moved back down to 130 after facing Crawford. His only fight at 135 he struggled to a PTS win over Darleys Perez, a man Crolla and Campbell knocked out before losing to Linares (the supposed weak resume guy who was a three-weight champion and WBC and WBA and Ring at 135).

    Postol? Best win is a "shot" Matthysse, then lost against a 12-0 British prospect.

    Indongo? Best win is an upset over a "shot" Burns, then got annihilated inside 6 minutes by Prograis.

    Beltran? Just the 7 other losses besides Crawford for a drug cheat.

    Diaz? Benavidez? Dulorme? They haven't even won an alphabet between them.
    It is easy to do, I'm only trying to point out that there are probably around 8 guys that could all make a claim as the best fighter in the world. All there records can be picked apart to an extend, but to call any of these guys' records superior to any of the others doesn't seem right to me, which is the only reason I pointed out some of Crawford's record, as I have stated, I wouldn't have Crawford or Loma as my #1.
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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Hey, maybe it’d be fairer if I woke my grandmother up at 3am and smashed her over the head with a canoe, then set out to cut down a tree with my socks.

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    The cruiserweight division is much stronger today and held in much higher esteem than back in the day. There's currently more registered cruiserweights than lightheavies. The change from 190 to 200 was a big benefit to it. As @Alpha said - the guys today are the 70s heavyweight heroes, big athletes with obvious speed, skill and power.
    Last edited by Fenster; 10-20-2018 at 10:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    It would be fairer if we listed the negatives about Crawford's opposition, like has been done for Loma, instead of focusing on only positives. Or at least acknowledge the positives of Loma's opposition.

    It's easy to pick holes in any fighters record and spin it however you want. The pro-Crawford camp instantly say - "too small" - about a bonafide P4P elite in Rigo whilst ignoring Gamboa was a natural featherweight who moved back down to 130 after facing Crawford. His only fight at 135 he struggled to a PTS win over Darleys Perez, a man Crolla and Campbell knocked out before losing to Linares (the supposed weak resume guy who was a three-weight champion and WBC and WBA and Ring at 135).

    Postol? Best win is a "shot" Matthysse, then lost against a 12-0 British prospect.

    Indongo? Best win is an upset over a "shot" Burns, then got annihilated inside 6 minutes by Prograis.

    Beltran? Just the 7 other losses besides Crawford for a drug cheat.

    Diaz? Benavidez? Dulorme? They haven't even won an alphabet between them.
    It is easy to do, I'm only trying to point out that there are probably around 8 guys that could all make a claim as the best fighter in the world. All there records can be picked apart to an extend, but to call any of these guys' records superior to any of the others doesn't seem right to me, which is the only reason I pointed out some of Crawford's record, as I have stated, I wouldn't have Crawford or Loma as my #1.
    I understand.

    But your breakdown of Crawford's record showed just how weak it is (imo) and you were trying to overplay it. You haven't once played all the positives about Loma's competition.

    Loma, Mikey, Wangek, Shiro, Crawford, Uysk, Inoue, Canelo, Golovkin - some have better opposition, some more titles, some more divisions and some quite simply look better than others. There is no right or wrong.
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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    It would be fairer if we listed the negatives about Crawford's opposition, like has been done for Loma, instead of focusing on only positives. Or at least acknowledge the positives of Loma's opposition.

    It's easy to pick holes in any fighters record and spin it however you want. The pro-Crawford camp instantly say - "too small" - about a bonafide P4P elite in Rigo whilst ignoring Gamboa was a natural featherweight who moved back down to 130 after facing Crawford. His only fight at 135 he struggled to a PTS win over Darleys Perez, a man Crolla and Campbell knocked out before losing to Linares (the supposed weak resume guy who was a three-weight champion and WBC and WBA and Ring at 135).

    Postol? Best win is a "shot" Matthysse, then lost against a 12-0 British prospect.

    Indongo? Best win is an upset over a "shot" Burns, then got annihilated inside 6 minutes by Prograis.

    Beltran? Just the 7 other losses besides Crawford for a drug cheat.

    Diaz? Benavidez? Dulorme? They haven't even won an alphabet between them.
    It is easy to do, I'm only trying to point out that there are probably around 8 guys that could all make a claim as the best fighter in the world. All there records can be picked apart to an extend, but to call any of these guys' records superior to any of the others doesn't seem right to me, which is the only reason I pointed out some of Crawford's record, as I have stated, I wouldn't have Crawford or Loma as my #1.
    I understand.

    But your breakdown of Crawford's record showed just how weak it is (imo) and you were trying to overplay it. You haven't once played all the positives about Loma's competition.

    Loma, Mikey, Wangek, Shiro, Crawford, Uysk, Inoue, Canelo, Golovkin - some have better opposition, some more titles, some more divisions and some quite simply look better than others. There is no right or wrong.
    I wasn't trying to overplay Crawford's record at all, just trying to give a fair breakdown on how I see it. There were guys like Benavidez who could be compared to Walters, you could have Horn in that group, Dulorme although not great has arguably beaten Ugas and Vargas in his last 2 fights, could be compared to Marriaga etc.

    I think Loma's record is brilliant. I'm pretty sure I've said that before, I don't want it to come of like I think it isn't. I just don't think it's superior to these other guys. That is really the only point I'm trying to make here. I do think Mikey's record is slightly better, but that's just my opinion and we went through that before. Like you said there's no right and wrong here.

    I haven't really gone into Loam's record because I have been either presenting my opinion on Mikey's record or trying to explain that I don't feel Loma's record is superior.

    Russell Jr is probably Loma's best win for me. In only his '3rd' fight. Gary was 24-0 and has arguably the fastest hands currently in the game. That fight is actually a treat to watch. Since then he's 5-0, with wins over Jhonny Gonzalez KO4, arguably the #1 guy when Gary fought him. Escandon KO7, not elite but bottom top 10 or just outside the 126 rankings when Russell Jr stopped him. And his recent win over Jo Jo Diaz W12. 26-0 at the time, a former US Olympian. Again not elite but definitely a current bottom top 10 guy.

    Linares is a fantastic win. That would probably be my second best win for Loma. You have listed his achievements previously.

    Then I think I'd go Walters RTD7. 26-0-1 when they fought. Best wins over Darchinyan and Donaire. Should have also got the nod, instead of a draw with Sosa. Also beat the tough Marriaga.

    From there probably Rigo RTD6. Former 2 time Olympic gold medalist. 17-0 going in. Recognized as the Lineal super-bantam champ. Had everyone from Donaire, Frampton Quigg and Mares (did I forget anyone?) running up in weight. Best wins over Cordoba. Ramos is a solid win. Donaire. Former elite bantam Agbeko.

    I'd probably have Martinez next KO5. A 3 time WBO super-featherweight champ. Fought Salido twice. Handling him pretty well in the 1st fight (this was 1 fight after Salido had beaten Loma), the other fight was a draw. Other good wins include Cook, Burns, Burgos is a solid victory, and Diego Magdaleno.

    That's his top 5 for me, but you also have to acknowledge that he defeated Sosa, and the tough Marriaga. He also took Salido to the brink, in only his second fight. Some even feel Loma should have got the nod in that fight.
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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    I'll stick with Walters, Linares and Russell Jr. at the top..... with a huge gap between them and Rigo and Martinez. Matter of opinion, after all.

    By doing so, I feel the "bias factor" is out. What's wrong with pointing out that Rigo was two divisions out of his comfort zone? Unless you're blinded by Loma fandom, it's easy to see. Also I have no problems picking apart my countryman Martinez as a weak champion and a poor gauge in trying to figure out who's p4p in the world. Martinez is/was/always will be a brave warrior and a joy to watch in the ring... no nonsense. Thoroughly enjoyed his two victories over the cheating Salido. But let's be real. Mikey had already taken Martinez apart in the worst way. That's why the gap. By calling Walters, Linares and Russell Jr. great wins, I'm showing my willingness to be objective.

    Turning to Crawford, it's easy to throw Diaz, Benavidez and Dulorme into the trash heap on account of them never having won titles. We all know how accurate titles are at determining quality of opponent, don't we. Especially nowadays, when a belt found in a Cracker Jack box is probably more valuable than some of the belts being worn by some of today's "champions." Gamboa's being undersized I can understand and accept, though not at the ridiculous extent that Rigo was. Again... just a show of my remarkable objectiveness. Postol's best win was over Matthysse? Damn straight. So? All fighters have best wins. That was a dominant showing against a feared puncher.... totally unexpected. Everyone was singing Postol's praises after that one. Now of course the bandwagon is temporarily derailed until someone changes the flat tire and it's bandwagon time again.

    I agree with @Alpha in that there are probably close to a handful of fighters out there today who are better than either Crawford or Loma. I'm not a Crawford p4p rah-rah guy. But I'll continue stating my opinion that Loma doesn't necessarily belong there either, just yet.

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Good points all round. You know who definitely has a better record than Loma or Crawford though? frank Stallone.

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    Default Re: Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    It would be fairer if we listed the negatives about Crawford's opposition, like has been done for Loma, instead of focusing on only positives. Or at least acknowledge the positives of Loma's opposition.

    It's easy to pick holes in any fighters record and spin it however you want. The pro-Crawford camp instantly say - "too small" - about a bonafide P4P elite in Rigo whilst ignoring Gamboa was a natural featherweight who moved back down to 130 after facing Crawford. His only fight at 135 he struggled to a PTS win over Darleys Perez, a man Crolla and Campbell knocked out before losing to Linares (the supposed weak resume guy who was a three-weight champion and WBC and WBA and Ring at 135).

    Postol? Best win is a "shot" Matthysse, then lost against a 12-0 British prospect.

    Indongo? Best win is an upset over a "shot" Burns, then got annihilated inside 6 minutes by Prograis.

    Beltran? Just the 7 other losses besides Crawford for a drug cheat.

    Diaz? Benavidez? Dulorme? They haven't even won an alphabet between them.
    Wait, Matthysse was shot but later moved up and won the fake belt your other boy pretended was real. How did he win the belt if he was shot? Or are you now admitting the WBA Regular is not a major title? I sure hope it’s the latter and we can get some consistency

    Also, you don’t count 3 wins because the guys didn’t win a belt. But you put that as a credit to Loma with Marriaga who didn’t win a belt AND moved up. Can we please get some consistency?

    And please stop lying, not one person said Linares was weak. Just everyone recognizes that Garcia is a better fighter than Linares. Even you recognize this. So don’t play victim and twist things around to push a fake agenda.
    Last edited by Ron Swanson; 10-21-2018 at 01:16 PM.

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