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Thread: End of year awards 2019

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  1. #61
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Look man, I get it that you're a Canelo fan. He's a great fighter, not saying he's not. His fights are always exciting, because he's the type of guy who will bring it. But all the HYPE built up around him. All the advantages afforded him in every which way and form. The way his career has always been carefully orchestrated from the beginning. The way he skips up and down divisions to pick out the weak deer from the herd. The games he plays with catchweights. The way he avoided GGG for years by saying he wasn't a 160-pounder, trying to drag GGG to 154, only to show up and fight JCC Jr. at 170. The way he never leaves Vegas or Mexico to fight, where he knows he's got the judges in his pocket. The way he was exposed as a PED-cheat and got a slap on the wrist. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

    This is not the way it used to be. I love stars who are genuine stars. Who have earned their way to the top.... winning some.... losing some. Not some coddled bozo who cherry picks and cheats.

    Canelo is a manufactured star, because boxing wanted it that way.

    That's why I'll always say..... f*ck Ginger.
    every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages. if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner. catchweights have always been a part of boxing. he fought ggg at 160, it's sad he ruined ggg after the first fight. canelo has travelled. canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights. miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others

    i feel canelo has earned his way to the top. winning some and losing some. i have already stated on this forum that i felt he lost the first ggg fight, but he fought him, then after the econd fight ggg was old, didn't see many criticizing sergiy d for fighting old man ggg. i have already stated that i am disappointed with the failed drug tests, but he served his punishment, some fighters weren't even punished for the same thing. since the trout fight onwards i have been impressed with canelo's record. sure there are a few gimmes, but all fighters have those, and aside from a few most have been rated opponents

    if it was so easy to manufacture a boxing star they would be all over the place, canelo has to do his part, stay dedicated, take and give punches, train
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages.

    Advantages like getting paid more money. Like getting top billing in an event. Like attracting good trainers and good promoters. Not being able to bend and break the rules at will. Not being able to skip and hop their way through weight divisions targeting only those who pose no danger. Not fighting strictly where judges are corrupt and bought, and nowhere else. Not getting a laughable "punishment" when convicted of PED cheating.

    Sorry... empty argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner.

    Artur and Bivol are busy, like every other top fighter, working at facing the best in their own division. Eventually they'll get to the point where they'll have faced everybody. They're not specifically waiting for fighters to get old or show some fatal flaw before jumping weight divisions to fight them.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    catchweights have always been a part of boxing.

    Tired of hearing this from blind Canelo fans. Yes, catchweights have always been a part of boxing, and usually they're used only when a fighter finds he cannot safely make a weight without compromising his ability to fight at 100%. With Canelo it's another tool to ensure he uses weight to his advantage. He, and JCC Jr., and now Munguia seem to come from the same Mexican school of boxing. Outweigh your opponent by 20-30 pounds by fight night, by all means legal or illegal..... and you'll ensure yourself a victory. That's cheating, in my book.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    canelo has travelled.

    This one must've slipped out, 'cause I know you can't be serious. The other poster just called you a troll and I'm trying my hardest not to. But when you post shit like this..... it becomes awfully hard. Canelo has traveled. I'll just let that one sit there for awhile while I think of an appropriate response.

    Nah.... can't think of any. If you mean the one time he went to NY to fight Fielding, then wow..... my calling Canelo the Pied Piper of Boxing was right on the money.

    Yes, Canelo travels. He travels from the locker room to the ring..... and sometimes back to Mexico to eat more 'roided cows.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights.

    Ask him who he thinks won the Floyd fight and he'll gladly tell you he was robbed. Ask him about ANY of his other controversial fights and he'll tell you he was robbed. No..... Canelo doesn't fill out the cards. That's all taken care of BEFORE the fights. Make sure the judges are in your pocket, and he just steps into the ring..... in full knowledge that the ONLY shot the other guy has is to knock him out. And we all know Canelo has a good beard.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others

    Miller is shit, and will amount to nothing in boxing. But we're not talking about Miller, are we.

    Next argument.



    Look..... we're getting nowhere fast. You put up weak lobs over the net....... I spike them through the floor.

    I've already spelled out my points (facts) to you many times over.

    Nice back-and-forth..... but I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse (or 'roided cow).

  3. #63
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages.

    Advantages like getting paid more money. Like getting top billing in an event. Like attracting good trainers and good promoters. Not being able to bend and break the rules at will. Not being able to skip and hop their way through weight divisions targeting only those who pose no danger. Not fighting strictly where judges are corrupt and bought, and nowhere else. Not getting a laughable "punishment" when convicted of PED cheating.

    Sorry... empty argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner.

    Artur and Bivol are busy, like every other top fighter, working at facing the best in their own division. Eventually they'll get to the point where they'll have faced everybody. They're not specifically waiting for fighters to get old or show some fatal flaw before jumping weight divisions to fight them.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    catchweights have always been a part of boxing.

    Tired of hearing this from blind Canelo fans. Yes, catchweights have always been a part of boxing, and usually they're used only when a fighter finds he cannot safely make a weight without compromising his ability to fight at 100%. With Canelo it's another tool to ensure he uses weight to his advantage. He, and JCC Jr., and now Munguia seem to come from the same Mexican school of boxing. Outweigh your opponent by 20-30 pounds by fight night, by all means legal or illegal..... and you'll ensure yourself a victory. That's cheating, in my book.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    canelo has travelled.

    This one must've slipped out, 'cause I know you can't be serious. The other poster just called you a troll and I'm trying my hardest not to. But when you post shit like this..... it becomes awfully hard. Canelo has traveled. I'll just let that one sit there for awhile while I think of an appropriate response.

    Nah.... can't think of any. If you mean the one time he went to NY to fight Fielding, then wow..... my calling Canelo the Pied Piper of Boxing was right on the money.

    Yes, Canelo travels. He travels from the locker room to the ring..... and sometimes back to Mexico to eat more 'roided cows.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights.

    Ask him who he thinks won the Floyd fight and he'll gladly tell you he was robbed. Ask him about ANY of his other controversial fights and he'll tell you he was robbed. No..... Canelo doesn't fill out the cards. That's all taken care of BEFORE the fights. Make sure the judges are in your pocket, and he just steps into the ring..... in full knowledge that the ONLY shot the other guy has is to knock him out. And we all know Canelo has a good beard.


    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others

    Miller is shit, and will amount to nothing in boxing. But we're not talking about Miller, are we.

    Next argument.



    Look..... we're getting nowhere fast. You put up weak lobs over the net....... I spike them through the floor.

    I've already spelled out my points (facts) to you many times over.

    Nice back-and-forth..... but I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse (or 'roided cow).
    most fighters try to bend and break the rules where they think they can get away with it. i don' agree with it, but canelo is not the only one. there are a number of fighters who have recieved the benefits of catchweights or boil down for the weigh in but come in much heavier than their opponents. you keep saying opponents that pose no danger, but i don't hear you calling for jermall, andrade or ggg to jump two divisions to face what you consider a weak deer in kov, or any of them even having inclination or desire to jump up to lightheavy and face an eleider or even a joe smith. did jacobs, ggg, lara, floyd, trout pose no threat? canelo fights where the promoters put the fight, his opponents could decline the fight or their promoters could put up the money for the site, but canelo is in a position similar to what floyd had, where if you want to fight him, you either accept the disadvantages or move along. canelo was given a ban and served his time. rey vargas and julio martinez got nothing at all, among others

    artur and bivol are busy? they get there eventually? but you expect canelo to face everyone there after only one fight in the division? double standards. if artur or bivol had signed to face kov in a unification, instead of canelo, everyone would have been excited and there would have been no talk of weak deer kov. and if kov was such a weak deer i'm sure the teams of arut and bivol would have jumped at the chance to unify with such an easy task. did sergiy d wait for ggg to get old as well? should no one fight ggg now since he is so old?

    catchweights have been used by many fighters such as pacquiao, it is not just canelo who benefits from them. canelo had to concede to 152 to get the floyd fight, he even accepted 155 for cotto, canelo wanted 156. jacobs is another fighter who comes in well above his opponents weight. it might be cheating in your book, i don't agree with it myself, but if a fighter makes the weight at the weigh in then it is witout the current rules

    canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling. just like loma and usyk. does canelo recieve benefits from fighting in vegas? sure, would any fighter turn down those advantages? doubt it, it is also a promoters job to get the best deal for his fighter, that includes location as well as purse and many other things

    most fghters don't want to admit they lost, broner still thinks he beat pac. this is nothing new. if you have a problem with the judges cards call them out. if it was as easy as having a fighter who could survive to the final bell then all promoters need to do is get iron chinned fighters from this point on and pay off everyone. you make it seem so simple

    ofcourse you are not talking about miller, it doesn't fit you bias. we are talking about failed drug tests tough aren't we? have the names rey vargas and julio martinez ever escaped your lips when talking about boxings failed drug tests and punishments?

    i understand some of your frustrations and agree with some of them. but you are very onesided. all i'm asking for is consistancy. you rubbish canelo for the same things other fighters are doing, i understand though, when a fighter reaches this level of fame he becomes more of a target for criticism. no fighter is bigger than the sport. canelo will be gone soon enough. enjoy him while you can. not many fighters have a perfect career where the fans agree with every move they make. canelo is still making good fights. i would love to see jermall take on kov at lightheavy or ggg, even some of these supermiddles could step up
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Most fighters CAN'T get away with it..... because they're not Canelo. Again, we can go back and forth all day, but you're not convincing anyone.

    Why should I call out other MW's for not jumping two divisions to fight a suddenly vulnerable Kovalev? You keep harping on that even though I've already said more than once that fighters should clean out their own division, a concept as foreign to Canelo as neurosurgery. If you're gonna keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over again let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses.

    You give Canelo kudos for fighting Floyd at 152? Damn that's pathetic. So it was basically a bloated Floyd, who isn't even a true WW, who whitewashed Canelo like he's never whitewashed anyone before... proving Canelo didn't belong in the same galaxy with him.... and yet somehow one of Canelo's hired help judges managed to see it as a draw. Shit bro.... this isn't even worth arguing about.

    My favorite argument of yours, though, is how you insist that Canelo travels.

    In fact..... I like the argument so much, I think I'll post it here verbatim.

    "canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling."


    Man.... I don't know what to say. It's sad, really. It's becoming tougher not to call you a troll.


    Hey, you know what? Of course I'm one-sided. (Newsflash)

    I'm one-sided because I've been a boxing fan long enough to know that Canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning. I'm not going to bother with all the reasons why. It's not worth the trouble, and it's nothing I haven't said a million times before.

    I already told you Canelo's an exciting fighter and that's all you're gonna get. Every other star in boxing history has earned their way to the top. They've fought credible opposition since about their 15th or 20th pro fight AT THE LATEST. They've fought all comers, including dangerous fighters that are not handicapped by age, weight, lack of power, or any other of the advantages Canelo has to have. They haven't CONSTANTLY outweighed their opposition by 20-30 pounds. They haven't picked off the Rocky Fieldings of the world to collect worthless trinkets. They haven't stuck to their own neighborhood with bought judges and commissions. They haven't had boxing orgs invent belts just for them.

    It's all out there for everyone to see. Except, however........ for the followers.



  5. #65
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Most fighters CAN'T get away with it..... because they're not Canelo. Again, we can go back and forth all day, but you're not convincing anyone.

    Why should I call out other MW's for not jumping two divisions to fight a suddenly vulnerable Kovalev? You keep harping on that even though I've already said more than once that fighters should clean out their own division, a concept as foreign to Canelo as neurosurgery. If you're gonna keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over again let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses.

    You give Canelo kudos for fighting Floyd at 152? Damn that's pathetic. So it was basically a bloated Floyd, who isn't even a true WW, who whitewashed Canelo like he's never whitewashed anyone before... proving Canelo didn't belong in the same galaxy with him.... and yet somehow one of Canelo's hired help judges managed to see it as a draw. Shit bro.... this isn't even worth arguing about.

    My favorite argument of yours, though, is how you insist that Canelo travels.

    In fact..... I like the argument so much, I think I'll post it here verbatim.

    "canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling."


    Man.... I don't know what to say. It's sad, really. It's becoming tougher not to call you a troll.


    Hey, you know what? Of course I'm one-sided. (Newsflash)

    I'm one-sided because I've been a boxing fan long enough to know that Canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning. I'm not going to bother with all the reasons why. It's not worth the trouble, and it's nothing I haven't said a million times before.

    I already told you Canelo's an exciting fighter and that's all you're gonna get. Every other star in boxing history has earned their way to the top. They've fought credible opposition since about their 15th or 20th pro fight AT THE LATEST. They've fought all comers, including dangerous fighters that are not handicapped by age, weight, lack of power, or any other of the advantages Canelo has to have. They haven't CONSTANTLY outweighed their opposition by 20-30 pounds. They haven't picked off the Rocky Fieldings of the world to collect worthless trinkets. They haven't stuck to their own neighborhood with bought judges and commissions. They haven't had boxing orgs invent belts just for them.

    It's all out there for everyone to see. Except, however........ for the followers.


    did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth

    i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses

    not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them

    is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth

    you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either

    i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them

    i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth

    Regurgitation. The first sign of someone who's lost the argument and is reduced to repeating the other side's phrases.

    i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses

    Ditto. Are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue also?

    not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them

    is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth

    You know what I mean here. I'm not spelling it out for you like some child.

    you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either

    i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them

    i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer

    You've already been slammed dunked every which way but continue to plow forward. Plow ahead.

    You can like him as a boxer all you like, but his career has still been manufactured.

    'Nough said.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019


  8. #68
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    did rey vargas and julio martinez get away with breaking the rules? we can go back and forth all day, but you can't accept the truth

    Regurgitation. The first sign of someone who's lost the argument and is reduced to repeating the other side's phrases.

    i'm just stating that other middles are not willing to do what canelo did, and even artur and bivol failed to fight kov. not every fighter has to clean out a division, loma is an example of a fighter moving up without doing so, if you are going to continue to hate on canelo, while not acknowledging the same acts other fighters are doing over and over let me know..... so I can cut-paste my responses

    Ditto. Are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue also?

    not it was a canelo who had to accept a catchweight and cut extra pounds. do you want fighters taking on the biggest challenges or not? there is no shame in losing to the best fighter at the time, if you have a problem with the judges score take it up with them

    is it true or not that canelo fights away from his home country? are you another one that can't accept the truth? only a troll would argue against the truth

    You know what I mean here. I'm not spelling it out for you like some child.

    you keep stating that canelo's career has been a well-orchestrated, protected, sham from the very beginning, but keep failing to acknowledge the fights i mention. was the trout a well-orchestrated, protected, sham? was floyd? was lara? is ggg too old for anyone to fight now? what about jacobs? i guess no one should fight kov again either

    i feel canelo has earned his way to the top and i stated that his record is one of the best currently around the weight. canelo turned pro at a young age. how many fights did wilder have before fighting a live body? i have already proved that canelo has fought fighters in their prime, and he hasn't always held a weight advantage, i have already said that power isn't everything in boxing, as floyd proved. every fighter has gimmes on their record, i have no interest in belts. you should take up your issues with the judges and commisions. if the wbc want to create belts that is up to them

    i like what canelo has been doing since the trout fight, i don't agree with everything but he is making and providing some great fights. no one is forcing you to like canelo, but i like him as a boxer

    You've already been slammed dunked every which way but continue to plow forward. Plow ahead.

    You can like him as a boxer all you like, but his career has still been manufactured.

    'Nough said.
    you said most fighters can't get away with it, i provided two fighters among many who got off better than canelo, two guys you have never said peep about. your response was to avoid this truth

    another truth is the current crop of top middles and artur and bivol did not choose to fight this so called weak deer kov and i provided loma as an example of a fighter who also hasn't cleaned out divisions, your response was to avoid this truth once again

    it is also true that canelo fights outside his home country, again you chose to avoid the truth

    you are playing the wrong sport as it is you that has been slammed by the truth

    i'll just put it down to jealousy of the legend that canelo is becoming
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Put it down however you like. I just hope you and your also hypnotized brethren snap out of it before the Pied Piper "flutes" you right off the cliff.

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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

    He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

    He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

    Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

    Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

    He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

    Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

    I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

    Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

    So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

    Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
    They live, We sleep

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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

    He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

    He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

    Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

    Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

    He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

    Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

    I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

    Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

    So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

    Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
    I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

    He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

    He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

    Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

    Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

    He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

    Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

    I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

    Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

    So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

    Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
    I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.

    I give him credit for some fights also. But it's the whole package when you view it as a whole, combined with the way this package is swallowed by some, including many casuals. If you take the fights individually, sure.... there's little to criticize about an opponent like Trout at the time. Jacobs is another example. But other than that, he's been a wildly successful boxing marketing experiment.... with everything around him conspiring in his favor.

    The start of his career cannot be denied. It was manufactured and even fellow countryman JCC Sr. had quite a bit of criticism about that. Unlike other fighters, who plow ahead undefeated records be damned (and get no favors from anybody)..... Canelo's greatness was preordained from the very beginning.

    It's THIS dog and pony show that I object to.

    Sometimes it's not so much the fighter, as it is everything else around him. What it does is magnify any criticism I may have of Canelo himself.

    Human nature.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Difference between me and others is... some choose to look only at individual fights. See? He fought so-and-so. See? He fought this other so-and-so. Me? I look at the entire career. It's not just Canelo and it's not just boxing. I would have the same abhorrence toward ANY "manufactured" career built from picking and choosing and carefully primping up an image for the sake of image's sake. Whether that means bending/breaking the rules.... buying judges.... playing ridiculous games with weight.....and blatantly avoiding certain fighters. But most of all...... taking NO risk.

    I may not be in the majority, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that "island."

  14. #74
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Tito is a little harsh with the protected stuff and weak opponents that Alvarez has fought. Yea there are some cupcakes in there, but he has fought a good number of ranked fighters in or around there prime.

    He gets credit from me for taking those fights like Trout who was unbeaten and highly rated when they fought, and he then went straight into the Mayweather fight. He arguably lost both those fights, so his record could easily have 2 losses at that point.

    He was abysmal against Mayweather Jr, but he took on the best challenge possible. Another loss.

    Angulo and Lara did come back to back, and after their fight I can give Alvarez a pass for taking Angulo first, but the Lara fight is another one that could easily be another loss.

    Kirkland, Cotto, Khan, Smith and Chavez Jr, only Cotto is worth mentioning, and he is a decent name to have on Alvarez’ record, albeit a little overdone and long in the tooth.

    He faced Golovkin twice but could have lost both fights, so his record after those fights could have 6 losses.

    Fielding was a worthless fight and did nothing to enhance his record.

    I think Jacobs was another excellent opponent and Alvarez defeated him clearer than both Golovkin and Derevyanchenko came close to doing.

    Kovalev was on the wrong side of the slope and I am disappointed with the rehydration clause that was kept secret until last minute, so that dampens the victory for me, although I must admit had one of the other Light-Heavyweight Champs signed to fight Kovalev I probably would have been all for it, but we wouldn’t have had a rehydration clause hanging over a unification.

    So, Alvarez has definitely fought good opposition and that’s where he gets all the credit from me, but without the favourable calls and advantages he could have already lost 6 times, and if some of those losses had occurred, he may not have been in the position he found himself in, where his team was able to call the shots, this may have lead to further loses, we’ll never know.

    Any fighter that tests positive for PEDs always gets a black mark next to their name for me. But I can only really go on this fights or tests they failed. I think most top athletes are on some kind of gear these days and until there are consistent tests and punishments handed out things will never improve.
    I agree. He does have good names on his record, but you need to know the background of some of those wins. I give him the most credit for the Jacobs win because it’s his one decisive win against a good opponent. Because of his fame, he has been forced to take certain fights, but they are always on his time and his terms.

    I give him credit for some fights also. But it's the whole package when you view it as a whole, combined with the way this package is swallowed by some, including many casuals. If you take the fights individually, sure.... there's little to criticize about an opponent like Trout at the time. Jacobs is another example. But other than that, he's been a wildly successful boxing marketing experiment.... with everything around him conspiring in his favor.

    The start of his career cannot be denied. It was manufactured and even fellow countryman JCC Sr. had quite a bit of criticism about that. Unlike other fighters, who plow ahead undefeated records be damned (and get no favors from anybody)..... Canelo's greatness was preordained from the very beginning.

    It's THIS dog and pony show that I object to.

    Sometimes it's not so much the fighter, as it is everything else around him. What it does is magnify any criticism I may have of Canelo himself.

    Human nature.
    other than trout and jacobs? what about floyd? i guess taking on the best in the sport is not enough of a risk for you. lara? what about ggg? when was he too old? the first or second fight? sergiy d shouldn't have fought such a shot fighter. and artur, bivol or gvozdyk probably didn't want to fight a shot kov to unify

    canelo turned pro young, so many of his eary fights were development. not many modern careers can be like loma or usyk. i agree that a fighter fast tracked is very impressive, but some get derailed. some of canelo's fights could have gone either way, i thought he lost the first ggg fight, but he is fighting these top fighters. this is not ballroom dancing. a fighter risks his life everytime he steps in the ring. and there is no dening that canelo has one of the best current records for fighting highly rated fighters around the weight. i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Difference between me and others is... some choose to look only at individual fights. See? He fought so-and-so. See? He fought this other so-and-so. Me? I look at the entire career. It's not just Canelo and it's not just boxing. I would have the same abhorrence toward ANY "manufactured" career built from picking and choosing and carefully primping up an image for the sake of image's sake. Whether that means bending/breaking the rules.... buying judges.... playing ridiculous games with weight.....and blatantly avoiding certain fighters. But most of all...... taking NO risk.

    I may not be in the majority, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that "island."
    look at a guy like mikey garcia, he had almost thirty fights before fighting orlando, nobody of any real note. no one really focuses on wht he did early in his career, mainly on what he has been doing since stepping up his competition. how many fights did it take wilder to fight a live body? all modern fighters pick and choose. and many bend and break the rules. bad decisions are a part of boxing. catchweights have been common through boxings history, cotto had a few and was quoted saying "If the guy doesn't want to go (to the catchweight), they can feel free to look in other directions (for opponents)." we can pick apart every fighter and find fighters that they are claimed to have avoided. canelo has taken risks uch as trout, floyd, lara, ggg, jacobs and he fought kov at lightheavyweight before artur, bivol or gvozdyk
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: End of year awards 2019

    What about Floyd?? A completely undersized man who had a snowball's chance in hell of knocking Canelo out. Fits Canelo's model opponent to a Tee. So no.... no risk there. Sure... he was guaranteed to lose. No way he's EVER been in the same galaxy as Floyd. I knew that before the fight. So did anyone else who knows a little something about boxing. But let's not be naive here. Calling out Floyd was the national past-time among fighters back then. It was their way of saying, "hey! look at me! I belong here!" Well..... in Canelo's case he obviously didn't. In fact, Canelo's total and embarrassing shutout at the hands of Floyd were reminiscent of another sham which was the JCC Jr. - Sergio Martinez fight. Everybody and their brother knew Sergio would NEVER knock out Junior ('cause Junior outweighed him by 20-30 pounds).... so ol' Melon Head only had to stalk Martinez for 12 rounds hoping for a lucky shot. He got one, too. Luckily Sergio survived to the final bell, and the sham was over. It's pretty cool when you can fight someone whose punch is like a mosquito bite to you.... so you can recklessly stalk the man for the entire fight. THAT..... was Canelo against Floyd. I think the closest Canelo got to connecting was a couple of feet.

    You wanna talk about GGG?? You sure you want to do this? Because I distinctly remember GGG calling out Canelo early on, only to have Canelo hide behind Oscar's skirt (the fishnets were always appropriate, BTW) and claim he wasn't a full-fledged middleweight. Which us non-blind boxing fans knew to be total bullshit. Canelo was totally a middleweight. But no.... he wanted to drag GGG down to 154 and play his weight games with him. Only to turn around and take a fight against that mummy, Melon Head. A fight made at 165 pounds. How do you explain THAT?? Take your time. If Canelo hadn't ducked GGG early on, the fight would have been made long before it was actually made.

    Yes, Canelo turned pro very young. But that's no excuse to build up a bogus pro record fattened with cab drivers and bartenders. Canelo was 30-0 and being treated like a mega-star already and had yet to fight anyone with a pulse. You might not have a problem with that, but I do.

    You mentioned Wilder. Feel free to go back through some of posts from earlier years when Wilder was fighting nobodies. There were few louder critics of Wilder than me. Since then he's taking more risks.

    Your last sentence is one I can agree with.

    "i have stated that i understand some of your frustrations and also agree with some. but i really enjoy most what canelo is doing"

    It's an ok middle ground. It's not far fetched to enjoy watching Canelo fight. He's an action fighter, and you'll always get your money's worth. But IMO he's not worthy of the Hollywood hype machine they've built around him.

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