End of year awards 2019

[TitoFan]

yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know

i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.

that's why i said yet

remember canelo turned pro young so much of his early fights were development. he has fought a who's who in recent years. who would you be happy for him to fight next? say top three choices

I'll give you one in each division.

Beterbiev.

If Canelo wasn't the division-skipping pussy he is.... he'd go for Beterbiev. None of this "lame zebra picking off" nonsense if you want fans to take you seriously. If you gonna play that game, stay the hell away from 175.

Callum Smith.

Who does Canelo target at 168? Not the guy boxing fans want him to fight. Not the decent punching, big boy Callum Smith. But rather powder-puff punching Billy Joe Saunders. Meanwhile, someone like Smith just gets deafening silence.

Jermall Charlo.

Why doesn't Charlo's name ever come up? And please spare me this "oh Charlo has other commitments" B.S. Charlo is a heavy hitter who could easily derail the Canelo golden goose express.


Answer me this question... WHEN has Canelo ever ventured outside the friendly confines of Vegas/ Southern California (heavily Mexican)/ Texas (heavily Mexican) for a fight?? I'll end the suspense. ONCE.

Once in his whole bleeping career. When he went to New York to challenge the "dangerous" Rocky Fielding. Another deer in headlights with a trinket just waiting to be picked up.


I've respected many bonafide Mexican boxing stars in their day. Finito Lopez, MAB, even JCC Sr. But how Canelo's skipping and hopping through weight divisions, avoiding the dangerous opponents, is admired by anyone..... is anybody's guess.

But hey..... you've got the WBC churning out make-believe belts for him nearly on a daily basis.

[TIC]

yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know

i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.

Canelo and Chavez Jr were both manufactured, but Canelo just actually had talent.

Before now though, what other Mexican fighter has been so coddled?

was jacobs shot? did canelo ruin ggg after the first fight, canelo had to take a catchweight to fight floyd, was lara shot? what about trout? lots of coddling going on there, not

I’ve already had this discussion with you. If you want my thoughts, go check our other discussion about it.

it was a reply to yourself and titofan, sorry for trying to spark some interest and discussion on a forum. keep dancing for me

yeah, we're fresh out of stars right now.... these things are cyclical you know

i can assure you though that when we do get one he won't be coddled, protected, fed bums for 40 fights, kept away from dangerous opponents, and have legions of blind fans who DKSAB.

that's why i said yet

remember canelo turned pro young so much of his early fights were development. he has fought a who's who in recent years. who would you be happy for him to fight next? say top three choices

I'll give you one in each division.

Beterbiev.

If Canelo wasn't the division-skipping pussy he is.... he'd go for Beterbiev. None of this "lame zebra picking off" nonsense if you want fans to take you seriously. If you gonna play that game, stay the hell away from 175.

Callum Smith.

Who does Canelo target at 168? Not the guy boxing fans want him to fight. Not the decent punching, big boy Callum Smith. But rather powder-puff punching Billy Joe Saunders. Meanwhile, someone like Smith just gets deafening silence.

Jermall Charlo.

Why doesn't Charlo's name ever come up? And please spare me this "oh Charlo has other commitments" B.S. Charlo is a heavy hitter who could easily derail the Canelo golden goose express.


Answer me this question... WHEN has Canelo ever ventured outside the friendly confines of Vegas/ Southern California (heavily Mexican)/ Texas (heavily Mexican) for a fight?? I'll end the suspense. ONCE.

Once in his whole bleeping career. When he went to New York to challenge the "dangerous" Rocky Fielding. Another deer in headlights with a trinket just waiting to be picked up.


I've respected many bonafide Mexican boxing stars in their day. Finito Lopez, MAB, even JCC Sr. But how Canelo's skipping and hopping through weight divisions, avoiding the dangerous opponents, is admired by anyone..... is anybody's guess.

But hey..... you've got the WBC churning out make-believe belts for him nearly on a daily basis.

beterbiev, so are you holding all the top guys at 160 to the same standards? i would like to see the fight but can already see some fans criticising or making excuses if canelo won that beterbiev was too old, he is 35 now

callum got an early christmas gift against ryder, i would like to see the fight but don't really see it as much of a challenge, and again some fans will bitch, same as they would if he rightly chose ryder

jermall, has been offered a fight with andrade and had sergiy d as his number one, also almost got upset by matt korobov and hasn't really done anything at middle. i would like to see the fight but again i fear we would see the same excuses when canelo laid him out, korobov and trout already exposed him, what had jermall done at middleweight and so on

how often did floyd travel overseas? once a fighter gets into this type of position they rightly or wrongly gain some advantages, a fighter still needs to step through the ropes, risk his life and fight, every fighter wants an advantage, if given one do you really think they will refuse it? this is the real world

i never stated that fielding was dangerous and never named him as an opponent i thought was quality, canelo did travel though and fighters don't tend to fight top opponents back to back to back these days

no other middleweights are putting their hand up to face kov, even now

the belts are irrelevant

[TitoFan]

beterbiev, so are you holding all the top guys at 160 to the same standards?

This one is too easy. Answer: No. Why? Because none of the other top guys at 160 are pot-shotting lame zebras at higher divisions, only to go scurrying back to safety. Honestly..... you should've thought out your question better before asking it.

how often did floyd travel overseas? once a fighter gets into this type of position they rightly or wrongly gain some advantages, a fighter still needs to step through the ropes, risk his life and fight, every fighter wants an advantage, if given one do you really think they will refuse it? this is the real world

You're killing me here, man. Floyd?? That is the example you're going to bring here? Floyd?? Your overall argument is beyond weak, I'm afraid. There have been PLENTY of fighters who have not limited their careers to places where they're going to get obvious breaks, such as shady corrupt bought judges (ie: CJ Ross).... slap on the wrist punishments.... and all the obvious advantages Canelo will use to make sure he's playing with a stacked deck. And we haven't even touched on the weight games he plays. He'll never have my respect until he fights someone who's not either a) woefully undersized, b) over-the-hill, c) fatally flawed and exposed, d) woefully inferior, or e) lacking the power to knock over a house of cards. Wanting advantages might be the "real world", but in boxing you fight who they put in front of you, regardless of what the damn computer says about your chances.

callum got an early christmas gift against ryder, i would like to see the fight but don't really see it as much of a challenge, and again some fans will bitch, same as they would if he rightly chose ryder

jermall, has been offered a fight with andrade and had sergiy d as his number one, also almost got upset by matt korobov and hasn't really done anything at middle. i would like to see the fight but again i fear we would see the same excuses when canelo laid him out, korobov and trout already exposed him, what had jermall done at middleweight and so on

Blah, blah, blah. Say what you will about Callum and Jermall. Point is Canelo won't seek them out, because they're THREATS. Team Canelo will not allow threats to possibly upend their grandiose master plan with the Ginger One. Canelo picks and chooses his targets ultra-carefully and if you don't see that as plain as day......... I'm afraid I can't help you.

[TitoFan]

Look man, I get it that you're a Canelo fan. He's a great fighter, not saying he's not. His fights are always exciting, because he's the type of guy who will bring it. But all the HYPE built up around him. All the advantages afforded him in every which way and form. The way his career has always been carefully orchestrated from the beginning. The way he skips up and down divisions to pick out the weak deer from the herd. The games he plays with catchweights. The way he avoided GGG for years by saying he wasn't a 160-pounder, trying to drag GGG to 154, only to show up and fight JCC Jr. at 170. The way he never leaves Vegas or Mexico to fight, where he knows he's got the judges in his pocket. The way he was exposed as a PED-cheat and got a slap on the wrist. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

This is not the way it used to be. I love stars who are genuine stars. Who have earned their way to the top.... winning some.... losing some. Not some coddled bozo who cherry picks and cheats.

Canelo is a manufactured star, because boxing wanted it that way.

That's why I'll always say..... f*ck Ginger.

[TIC]

Look man, I get it that you're a Canelo fan. He's a great fighter, not saying he's not. His fights are always exciting, because he's the type of guy who will bring it. But all the HYPE built up around him. All the advantages afforded him in every which way and form. The way his career has always been carefully orchestrated from the beginning. The way he skips up and down divisions to pick out the weak deer from the herd. The games he plays with catchweights. The way he avoided GGG for years by saying he wasn't a 160-pounder, trying to drag GGG to 154, only to show up and fight JCC Jr. at 170. The way he never leaves Vegas or Mexico to fight, where he knows he's got the judges in his pocket. The way he was exposed as a PED-cheat and got a slap on the wrist. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

This is not the way it used to be. I love stars who are genuine stars. Who have earned their way to the top.... winning some.... losing some. Not some coddled bozo who cherry picks and cheats.

Canelo is a manufactured star, because boxing wanted it that way.

That's why I'll always say..... f*ck Ginger.

every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages. if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner. catchweights have always been a part of boxing. he fought ggg at 160, it's sad he ruined ggg after the first fight. canelo has travelled. canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights. miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others

i feel canelo has earned his way to the top. winning some and losing some. i have already stated on this forum that i felt he lost the first ggg fight, but he fought him, then after the econd fight ggg was old, didn't see many criticizing sergiy d for fighting old man ggg. i have already stated that i am disappointed with the failed drug tests, but he served his punishment, some fighters weren't even punished for the same thing. since the trout fight onwards i have been impressed with canelo's record. sure there are a few gimmes, but all fighters have those, and aside from a few most have been rated opponents

if it was so easy to manufacture a boxing star they would be all over the place, canelo has to do his part, stay dedicated, take and give punches, train

[TitoFan]

every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages.

Advantages like getting paid more money. Like getting top billing in an event. Like attracting good trainers and good promoters. Not being able to bend and break the rules at will. Not being able to skip and hop their way through weight divisions targeting only those who pose no danger. Not fighting strictly where judges are corrupt and bought, and nowhere else. Not getting a laughable "punishment" when convicted of PED cheating.

Sorry... empty argument.

if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner.

Artur and Bivol are busy, like every other top fighter, working at facing the best in their own division. Eventually they'll get to the point where they'll have faced everybody. They're not specifically waiting for fighters to get old or show some fatal flaw before jumping weight divisions to fight them.

catchweights have always been a part of boxing.

Tired of hearing this from blind Canelo fans. Yes, catchweights have always been a part of boxing, and usually they're used only when a fighter finds he cannot safely make a weight without compromising his ability to fight at 100%. With Canelo it's another tool to ensure he uses weight to his advantage. He, and JCC Jr., and now Munguia seem to come from the same Mexican school of boxing. Outweigh your opponent by 20-30 pounds by fight night, by all means legal or illegal..... and you'll ensure yourself a victory. That's cheating, in my book.

canelo has travelled.

This one must've slipped out, 'cause I know you can't be serious. The other poster just called you a troll and I'm trying my hardest not to. But when you post shit like this..... it becomes awfully hard. Canelo has traveled. I'll just let that one sit there for awhile while I think of an appropriate response.

Nah.... can't think of any. If you mean the one time he went to NY to fight Fielding, then wow..... my calling Canelo the Pied Piper of Boxing was right on the money.

Yes, Canelo travels. He travels from the locker room to the ring..... and sometimes back to Mexico to eat more 'roided cows.

canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights.

Ask him who he thinks won the Floyd fight and he'll gladly tell you he was robbed. Ask him about ANY of his other controversial fights and he'll tell you he was robbed. No..... Canelo doesn't fill out the cards. That's all taken care of BEFORE the fights. Make sure the judges are in your pocket, and he just steps into the ring..... in full knowledge that the ONLY shot the other guy has is to knock him out. And we all know Canelo has a good beard.

miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others

Miller is shit, and will amount to nothing in boxing. But we're not talking about Miller, are we.

Next argument.



Look..... we're getting nowhere fast. You put up weak lobs over the net....... I spike them through the floor.

I've already spelled out my points (facts) to you many times over.

Nice back-and-forth..... but I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse (or 'roided cow).

[TIC]

every fighter who reaches this level of fame will be granted advantages.

Advantages like getting paid more money. Like getting top billing in an event. Like attracting good trainers and good promoters. Not being able to bend and break the rules at will. Not being able to skip and hop their way through weight divisions targeting only those who pose no danger. Not fighting strictly where judges are corrupt and bought, and nowhere else. Not getting a laughable "punishment" when convicted of PED cheating.

Sorry... empty argument.

if kov was such a weak deer artur and bivol should have pounched on him sooner.

Artur and Bivol are busy, like every other top fighter, working at facing the best in their own division. Eventually they'll get to the point where they'll have faced everybody. They're not specifically waiting for fighters to get old or show some fatal flaw before jumping weight divisions to fight them.

catchweights have always been a part of boxing.

Tired of hearing this from blind Canelo fans. Yes, catchweights have always been a part of boxing, and usually they're used only when a fighter finds he cannot safely make a weight without compromising his ability to fight at 100%. With Canelo it's another tool to ensure he uses weight to his advantage. He, and JCC Jr., and now Munguia seem to come from the same Mexican school of boxing. Outweigh your opponent by 20-30 pounds by fight night, by all means legal or illegal..... and you'll ensure yourself a victory. That's cheating, in my book.

canelo has travelled.

This one must've slipped out, 'cause I know you can't be serious. The other poster just called you a troll and I'm trying my hardest not to. But when you post shit like this..... it becomes awfully hard. Canelo has traveled. I'll just let that one sit there for awhile while I think of an appropriate response.

Nah.... can't think of any. If you mean the one time he went to NY to fight Fielding, then wow..... my calling Canelo the Pied Piper of Boxing was right on the money.

Yes, Canelo travels. He travels from the locker room to the ring..... and sometimes back to Mexico to eat more 'roided cows.

canelo doesn't fill out the judges cards he just fights the fights.

Ask him who he thinks won the Floyd fight and he'll gladly tell you he was robbed. Ask him about ANY of his other controversial fights and he'll tell you he was robbed. No..... Canelo doesn't fill out the cards. That's all taken care of BEFORE the fights. Make sure the judges are in your pocket, and he just steps into the ring..... in full knowledge that the ONLY shot the other guy has is to knock him out. And we all know Canelo has a good beard.

miller also only got a slap on the wrist, as did many others

Miller is shit, and will amount to nothing in boxing. But we're not talking about Miller, are we.

Next argument.



Look..... we're getting nowhere fast. You put up weak lobs over the net....... I spike them through the floor.

I've already spelled out my points (facts) to you many times over.

Nice back-and-forth..... but I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse (or 'roided cow).

most fighters try to bend and break the rules where they think they can get away with it. i don' agree with it, but canelo is not the only one. there are a number of fighters who have recieved the benefits of catchweights or boil down for the weigh in but come in much heavier than their opponents. you keep saying opponents that pose no danger, but i don't hear you calling for jermall, andrade or ggg to jump two divisions to face what you consider a weak deer in kov, or any of them even having inclination or desire to jump up to lightheavy and face an eleider or even a joe smith. did jacobs, ggg, lara, floyd, trout pose no threat? canelo fights where the promoters put the fight, his opponents could decline the fight or their promoters could put up the money for the site, but canelo is in a position similar to what floyd had, where if you want to fight him, you either accept the disadvantages or move along. canelo was given a ban and served his time. rey vargas and julio martinez got nothing at all, among others

artur and bivol are busy? they get there eventually? but you expect canelo to face everyone there after only one fight in the division? double standards. if artur or bivol had signed to face kov in a unification, instead of canelo, everyone would have been excited and there would have been no talk of weak deer kov. and if kov was such a weak deer i'm sure the teams of arut and bivol would have jumped at the chance to unify with such an easy task. did sergiy d wait for ggg to get old as well? should no one fight ggg now since he is so old?

catchweights have been used by many fighters such as pacquiao, it is not just canelo who benefits from them. canelo had to concede to 152 to get the floyd fight, he even accepted 155 for cotto, canelo wanted 156. jacobs is another fighter who comes in well above his opponents weight. it might be cheating in your book, i don't agree with it myself, but if a fighter makes the weight at the weigh in then it is witout the current rules

canelo is not from america, every fight outside of mexico is travelling. just like loma and usyk. does canelo recieve benefits from fighting in vegas? sure, would any fighter turn down those advantages? doubt it, it is also a promoters job to get the best deal for his fighter, that includes location as well as purse and many other things

most fghters don't want to admit they lost, broner still thinks he beat pac. this is nothing new. if you have a problem with the judges cards call them out. if it was as easy as having a fighter who could survive to the final bell then all promoters need to do is get iron chinned fighters from this point on and pay off everyone. you make it seem so simple

ofcourse you are not talking about miller, it doesn't fit you bias. we are talking about failed drug tests tough aren't we? have the names rey vargas and julio martinez ever escaped your lips when talking about boxings failed drug tests and punishments?

i understand some of your frustrations and agree with some of them. but you are very onesided. all i'm asking for is consistancy. you rubbish canelo for the same things other fighters are doing, i understand though, when a fighter reaches this level of fame he becomes more of a target for criticism. no fighter is bigger than the sport. canelo will be gone soon enough. enjoy him while you can. not many fighters have a perfect career where the fans agree with every move they make. canelo is still making good fights. i would love to see jermall take on kov at lightheavy or ggg, even some of these supermiddles could step up

[TIC]

beterbiev, so are you holding all the top guys at 160 to the same standards?

This one is too easy. Answer: No. Why? Because none of the other top guys at 160 are pot-shotting lame zebras at higher divisions, only to go scurrying back to safety. Honestly..... you should've thought out your question better before asking it.

how often did floyd travel overseas? once a fighter gets into this type of position they rightly or wrongly gain some advantages, a fighter still needs to step through the ropes, risk his life and fight, every fighter wants an advantage, if given one do you really think they will refuse it? this is the real world

You're killing me here, man. Floyd?? That is the example you're going to bring here? Floyd?? Your overall argument is beyond weak, I'm afraid. There have been PLENTY of fighters who have not limited their careers to places where they're going to get obvious breaks, such as shady corrupt bought judges (ie: CJ Ross).... slap on the wrist punishments.... and all the obvious advantages Canelo will use to make sure he's playing with a stacked deck. And we haven't even touched on the weight games he plays. He'll never have my respect until he fights someone who's not either a) woefully undersized, b) over-the-hill, c) fatally flawed and exposed, d) woefully inferior, or e) lacking the power to knock over a house of cards. Wanting advantages might be the "real world", but in boxing you fight who they put in front of you, regardless of what the damn computer says about your chances.

callum got an early christmas gift against ryder, i would like to see the fight but don't really see it as much of a challenge, and again some fans will bitch, same as they would if he rightly chose ryder

jermall, has been offered a fight with andrade and had sergiy d as his number one, also almost got upset by matt korobov and hasn't really done anything at middle. i would like to see the fight but again i fear we would see the same excuses when canelo laid him out, korobov and trout already exposed him, what had jermall done at middleweight and so on

Blah, blah, blah. Say what you will about Callum and Jermall. Point is Canelo won't seek them out, because they're THREATS. Team Canelo will not allow threats to possibly upend their grandiose master plan with the Ginger One. Canelo picks and chooses his targets ultra-carefully and if you don't see that as plain as day......... I'm afraid I can't help you.

i don't see ay other middleweights hurrying to fight kov, canelo has only had one fight there, how long have artur, and bivol gvozdyk been light heavies? they never fought kov, but you criticize canelo after one fight there, seems fair

lots of fighters get criticized for not travelling, if you have issues with the judges or commissions take it up with them, canelo just fights the fights. many fighters who reach a certain level play weight games of some kind, i don't agree with it but it is part of boxing, and opponents to have to accept them. were lara, trout, ggg, jacobs undersized? was ggg only over-the-hill after the first canelo fight? were trout, floyd, lara, ggg and jacobs fatally flawed and exposed or woefully inferior? granted some of them may have lacked power but boxing is not all about power. canelo does fight who is put infront of him

you see callum and jermall as threats, i see them as easy pickings. i can almost guarantee that if canelo fought each one after the other next and toppled them both you would use some of the excuses i mentioned to sully canelo's victories. hell if canelo chose to fight callum's daddy ryder next, you would probably lose your shit

remember this is a business and dazn may want to bring in some much needed cash, a fight in japan against murata would do that easy, it is a reason they also wanted ggg to fight murata in japan. canelo probably has some sway with the opponents he wants to fight but the guys signing the cheques also have influence