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Thread: Pacquiao vs Thurman

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Geeeez..... tough crowd here as always. Let the Thurman's and Pacquiao's fight for crying out loud. Contrary to popular belief, not EVERY fight in boxing can be the Best Against the Best. If it was, we'd run out of fights to make pretty quickly. I'm not a fan of marinating, especially since Fishnets was the one who coined and made that term famous. But the polar opposite, where no one is given a break to fight no one but the very best, is a bit naive and at best unrealistic. I myself look forward to this fight. Spence and Crawford will be there waiting at the end.

    What’s naive is to pretend anyone is asking everyone to fight the best NEXT. Name 1 fight in boxing that is scheduled, hell I’ll be generous and add what has happened so far this year, where the number 1 guy fought or is fighting the number 2. It doesn’t happen, so nobody is demanding the best fight the best always. The sport loses ground every day in America because Thurman has hid from Spence for years, because hiding in plain sight is so common. Because if that hiding and his opponents hiding is mentioned, boxing fans are so broken that they say it is naive to want best vs the best. UFC has no issues finding opponents, they must have such a deep pool, no wait it’s not 1/100th of boxing’s. If the best do fight the best the excitement for the next guy grows, then the next. Fight the best SOMETIMES.

    It wasn’t that long ago it happened in boxing, FFS Pacquiao did it, this era can too. Don’t be broken by the nonsense.

    You must dislike the WBSS. For that matter, you must dislike any type of playoff bracket in sports. Why bother, right? Just pick the consensus #1 and #2 and to hell with the rest. We save on games... we save on time... we save on drama. Hey... we would ALL like Crawford-Spence on a weekly basis. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Huge fights need to be....... "worked up to". Strange concept, I know... but it's what playoffs are based on. There's only one #1 and only one #2 in any division (save the alphabet complications). Don't know about you... but it's ok by me if #1 fights #4 while #2 fights #3, on the way to having #1 against #2 (if nothing goes awry in the process).

    Thurman? Yeah... he's a ducker. But not everyone who doesn't IMMEDIATELY attempt Mt. Everest while eschewing all other peaks is a ducker. UFC is a shitty example. Remember, they're the relative new kid on the block to boxing... and they can't afford to be farting around with #3's and #4's. They need to sell and they need to sell now.

    Pacquiao? Yeah... he did it alright. That's why he's a bonafide ATG. No qualms on that.

    Difference here is... I prefer the traditional working your way to the top. You obviously prefer start at the top and pick up the chips from there. Meh..... different strokes and all that.

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Best v best has to be the exception as bad as that sounds. Numerically to begin with it's impossible and lacks big picture think. I like the middle ground of just wanting good potentially competitive match ups. Hindsight is 20-20 once the dust settles and how often do the number 1 and number 2 go to it and it doesn't truly deliver. Shiny records on paper and hype don't mean squat. Consider the styles and potential and welcome in a guy like Julian Williams who earned his way back to just turned the 154 division on it's head. Frankly that Williams clowns Munguia too. A number 1 who looks to clear up the fellow trinkets is also welcome. Hasn't the book been out on Thurman, we all knew he wasn't going Spence.

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    A huge problem in boxing is not allowing younger fighters to get beat. You do have exceptions to the rule, but most fighters who lose 5-10 times early in their career won’t ever make it to the big stage. It’s not necessarily because they aren’t good enough but because they don’t get a chance later. I would love to see a fighter like Munguia take on some of the top dogs at 154 and lose. He may beat one of them. As a fan, I just want to see good fights being made even if it’s not #1 vs #2.

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    I will support Pacquiao. Thurman damaged

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    It's a good fight IMO. Mind you, Pac is getting to that age when he might come unstuck, but Thurman does tend to retreat when he has tasted power. But then does Manny have the legs to stalk him down? It is an interesting matchup.

    In terms of Manny going out against someone like Spence I am all for it. Sure, it would be nice for him to retire, but he will give it all he has and go down fighting and that is more dignified than a fake 0 IMO.

    And just maybe he does a Duran and does something freaky in his 40's. Never rule out a legend.
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWNc_AZewu7AAERwCfLfupUZIJSbzqC MgjXFbc0u9YrZkuInoB

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Freddie Roach on Manny Pacquiao losing his killer instinct, how he'll beat Keith Thurman and training Ivan Baranchyk

    Sporting News caught up with legendary boxing coach Freddie Roach in Glasgow, Scotland, as he makes final preparations for Ivan Baranchyk’s semifinal bout against Josh Taylor in the World Boxing Super Series on Saturday, which will be streamed live on DAZN .

    SPORTING NEWS: You took over the training for Ivan Baranchyk not that long ago. How has it been preparing for this semifinal against Josh Taylor?

    FREDDIE ROACH: I think the biggest issue is that he is the hometown fighter, and everyone should know the hometown fighter. We’re coming here from Russia by way of Los Angeles, we trained for eight weeks in LA for this one and had a very good training camp. It was our first one together, which made it a little difficult as our languages are different. I wonder if he understands what I’m saying when we are going over the game plan and things like that. We do have a good game plan to beat this guy [Taylor] and [after watching] all the tape I've seen of him, I think I have all his bad habits down and other things we can take advantage of. Taylor’s footwork is OK, he’s in and out quickly, sometimes he stays in the pocket a little too long. I feel I have the better puncher of the two in this one for sure.

    SN: Have you two jelled as quickly as you would like, and how did this pairing come about?

    FR: One thing I've learned with Ivan is that the closer we get to the fight, the better and the meaner he gets. He really puts the game face on. He’ll come down every morning with a smile on his face and I do like that as I know he’s happy and everything is going well. But when it's time to go to work there’s no fooling around so it’s working out very well. He’s got the game plan down; he knows what I want him to do and I do feel that he will follow my instructions. He called me a couple of times and I’ve seen him a couple of times when he was fighting in the Midwest. He’s very impressive as he always comes to fight, and I expect nothing different in that fight against Taylor. We are in a different country but the ring is the same size and I don’t give a s— how many people are shouting for the other guy, by the end of the fight they’ll be yelling for my guy because I feel we are going to steal the show.

    Josh Taylor vs. Ivan Baranchyk: fight date, price, how to watch, live-stream WBSS semifinal

    SN: Let’s go back to the beginning of what has been an amazing coaching career for you. Did you want to become a trainer after you finished boxing or was it just something you fell into?

    FR: I hated the sport when I retired. I mean, I put my whole life into something and I failed. I didn’t get anything out of it. My biggest payday was $7,500 for fighting Hector Camacho for the world title, it didn’t work out that well. I wanted to be a world champion and be rich and famous, but it took something else to be rich and famous, to be a trainer. So, after I retired, I probably drank for about a year, which was the first time doing that in my life. I was a telemarketer as a phone salesman and I probably averaged about $300 a week, enough to pay the rent. At one point I said, "I better get back to work," so I went down the gym and just started to help Eddie Futch. Every day I would show up and help Eddie. I completely quit drinking as I was asking the fighters not to drink, so I probably shouldn’t drink, either. I became Eddie’s No. 1 assistant. I was with Eddie for about five years at that point and then a couple of fighters, Virgil Hill and Marlon Starling, wanted to go on their own with me. I talked to Eddie about it and he wasn’t too happy about that, but I didn’t want to abandon these fighters that I had been with for five years, so I took them on. Virgil was my first world champion and Marlon was my second, in that order, I think, but they’ll argue about who was the first.



    SN: You’ve worked with over 50 world champions; would you say you’ve got the boxing game all worked out?

    FR: Some fighters were world champions before they met me, some became world champions with me and some after. I’ve had the opportunity to work with at least 50 great fighters. Everyone is different; you can’t train two fighters the same. It’s just impossible to do that as it’s not going to work. One guy will click with this, one will click with that. You have to take each one as individuals as no two fighters are alike and they all have different characters, different issues, different religions, different killer instincts. I will say that having a killer instinct in this game is very important because you’re out to hurt our opponent. My best fighter, Manny Pacquiao, when he got into religion and so forth, he said, "I don’t have to hurt my opponents, I just have to beat them," and I said, "No! You better just knock them out, Manny!" We debate over that somewhat but we still get along very well and respect each other immensely. I respect what he does and he respects what I do and we work very well in the gym together. There’s no better workout than watching me and him do mitts. I mean, the whole gym will stop working out to watch because he is explosive.

    SN: Would you say Pacquiao is the best professional you’ve worked with?

    FR: Starting out, no, but where he is now? Yes. He’s developed into a very good fighter. I will say this, he has good footwork. If you want to watch footwork, then watch Manny. But we did come up with a little bit of a problem once where he would attack after the third feint. He would go on the same number and the other guy was smart enough to count and Manny walked straight into a shot. It was a mistake that we shouldn’t have made but we let it go and he got knocked out (against Juan Manuel Marquez). Working with a guy like Pacquiao, he understands that suffering a knockout isn’t the end of his career. Being knocked out happens to everybody in this game — with the right punch, anyone can be knocked out. I used to think it was impossible to knock me down. Like, Mike Tyson couldn’t knock me down because I had such a good chin. Then, all of a sudden, I touched the floor one day and I was wondering, "How the f— did I get here?" It’s just the way it goes. Boxing is a rough sport.

    SN: Manny Pacquiao takes on Keith Thurman on July 20; how do you see that fight going?

    FR: Thurman is a big, strong guy but his last two fights he hasn’t looked as good as he once was. But I won’t underestimate him and I’ll expect him [to] come with his best because he’s fighting one of the best. I've been watching all his best fights for weaknesses. We do have a tough fight in front of us. It's a winnable fight but Pacquiao’s speed should be too much for him, All Manny has to do is pretty much let his hands go a little bit more. I was very happy with him in his last fight, It was the most offensive I've seen him in a long, long time. It's been a while since he’s fought like that, like back in the Ricky Hatton days.

    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/fre...213018385.html
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    So the undercard is shaping up to be pretty good if the fights all go through.

    Main event
    Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Undercards
    Nery vs Payano
    Lipinets vs Molina Jr.
    Ugas vs Figueroa

    That’s a solid card if it all works out. Best PPV card I’ve seen in a long time

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    just David Haye-ing out their careers.
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    So the undercard is shaping up to be pretty good if the fights all go through.

    Main event
    Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Undercards
    Nery vs Payano
    Lipinets vs Molina Jr.
    Ugas vs Figueroa

    That’s a solid card if it all works out. Best PPV card I’ve seen in a long time
    Card very good I like. Molina Jr one best gatekeep. Good see measure Nery v Payano to Inoue perform. Me hope Ugas have fair shake. Omar get shock if not serious. Me see Ugas give beating. Could all action fight

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    A part of me thinks this is BOB ARUM that has either bankrupted him or cashing in. It is as if Pac never once said he was retiring to go political. Like we all expected him to come back...or maybe never had left boxing.

    Bother fighters are close to lose-lose scenarios. Neither can afford this loss which makes me a bit sad if its Pac. I lived through a past it Ali, Ray Leonard, SweePea, RJJ, Holy, Bhop.
    To see Pac losing and still fighting doesn't hurt his legacy, but it does hurt his fans and admirers.
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    A part of me thinks this is BOB ARUM that has either bankrupted him or cashing in. It is as if Pac never once said he was retiring to go political. Like we all expected him to come back...or maybe never had left boxing.

    Bother fighters are close to lose-lose scenarios. Neither can afford this loss which makes me a bit sad if its Pac. I lived through a past it Ali, Ray Leonard, SweePea, RJJ, Holy, Bhop.
    To see Pac losing and still fighting doesn't hurt his legacy, but it does hurt his fans and admirers.
    Manny has lost now many times and just keeps on going.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Geeeez..... tough crowd here as always. Let the Thurman's and Pacquiao's fight for crying out loud. Contrary to popular belief, not EVERY fight in boxing can be the Best Against the Best. If it was, we'd run out of fights to make pretty quickly. I'm not a fan of marinating, especially since Fishnets was the one who coined and made that term famous. But the polar opposite, where no one is given a break to fight no one but the very best, is a bit naive and at best unrealistic. I myself look forward to this fight. Spence and Crawford will be there waiting at the end.

    What’s naive is to pretend anyone is asking everyone to fight the best NEXT. Name 1 fight in boxing that is scheduled, hell I’ll be generous and add what has happened so far this year, where the number 1 guy fought or is fighting the number 2. It doesn’t happen, so nobody is demanding the best fight the best always. The sport loses ground every day in America because Thurman has hid from Spence for years, because hiding in plain sight is so common. Because if that hiding and his opponents hiding is mentioned, boxing fans are so broken that they say it is naive to want best vs the best. UFC has no issues finding opponents, they must have such a deep pool, no wait it’s not 1/100th of boxing’s. If the best do fight the best the excitement for the next guy grows, then the next. Fight the best SOMETIMES.

    It wasn’t that long ago it happened in boxing, FFS Pacquiao did it, this era can too. Don’t be broken by the nonsense.

    You must dislike the WBSS. For that matter, you must dislike any type of playoff bracket in sports. Why bother, right? Just pick the consensus #1 and #2 and to hell with the rest. We save on games... we save on time... we save on drama. Hey... we would ALL like Crawford-Spence on a weekly basis. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Huge fights need to be....... "worked up to". Strange concept, I know... but it's what playoffs are based on. There's only one #1 and only one #2 in any division (save the alphabet complications). Don't know about you... but it's ok by me if #1 fights #4 while #2 fights #3, on the way to having #1 against #2 (if nothing goes awry in the process).

    Thurman? Yeah... he's a ducker. But not everyone who doesn't IMMEDIATELY attempt Mt. Everest while eschewing all other peaks is a ducker. UFC is a shitty example. Remember, they're the relative new kid on the block to boxing... and they can't afford to be farting around with #3's and #4's. They need to sell and they need to sell now.

    Pacquiao? Yeah... he did it alright. That's why he's a bonafide ATG. No qualms on that.

    Difference here is... I prefer the traditional working your way to the top. You obviously prefer start at the top and pick up the chips from there. Meh..... different strokes and all that.

    Not sure if im in agreement or partially, but I've almost eliminated the idea of looking at ranking since we --save the alphabet complications--
    I have no way to determine if the WBA's #2 who let's say fought 1 time in two years is better than IBF's #5 who fought 3x last year or WBO's #1 ranked fighter who is on a 5 Ko streak with zero opponents ranking to 15.

    So I've gone short yellow bus theory. How did the guy do in his last 2 fights is a better gauge IMO than what org is ranking them.
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Geeeez..... tough crowd here as always. Let the Thurman's and Pacquiao's fight for crying out loud. Contrary to popular belief, not EVERY fight in boxing can be the Best Against the Best. If it was, we'd run out of fights to make pretty quickly. I'm not a fan of marinating, especially since Fishnets was the one who coined and made that term famous. But the polar opposite, where no one is given a break to fight no one but the very best, is a bit naive and at best unrealistic. I myself look forward to this fight. Spence and Crawford will be there waiting at the end.

    What’s naive is to pretend anyone is asking everyone to fight the best NEXT. Name 1 fight in boxing that is scheduled, hell I’ll be generous and add what has happened so far this year, where the number 1 guy fought or is fighting the number 2. It doesn’t happen, so nobody is demanding the best fight the best always. The sport loses ground every day in America because Thurman has hid from Spence for years, because hiding in plain sight is so common. Because if that hiding and his opponents hiding is mentioned, boxing fans are so broken that they say it is naive to want best vs the best. UFC has no issues finding opponents, they must have such a deep pool, no wait it’s not 1/100th of boxing’s. If the best do fight the best the excitement for the next guy grows, then the next. Fight the best SOMETIMES.

    It wasn’t that long ago it happened in boxing, FFS Pacquiao did it, this era can too. Don’t be broken by the nonsense.

    You must dislike the WBSS. For that matter, you must dislike any type of playoff bracket in sports. Why bother, right? Just pick the consensus #1 and #2 and to hell with the rest. We save on games... we save on time... we save on drama. Hey... we would ALL like Crawford-Spence on a weekly basis. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Huge fights need to be....... "worked up to". Strange concept, I know... but it's what playoffs are based on. There's only one #1 and only one #2 in any division (save the alphabet complications). Don't know about you... but it's ok by me if #1 fights #4 while #2 fights #3, on the way to having #1 against #2 (if nothing goes awry in the process).

    Thurman? Yeah... he's a ducker. But not everyone who doesn't IMMEDIATELY attempt Mt. Everest while eschewing all other peaks is a ducker. UFC is a shitty example. Remember, they're the relative new kid on the block to boxing... and they can't afford to be farting around with #3's and #4's. They need to sell and they need to sell now.

    Pacquiao? Yeah... he did it alright. That's why he's a bonafide ATG. No qualms on that.

    Difference here is... I prefer the traditional working your way to the top. You obviously prefer start at the top and pick up the chips from there. Meh..... different strokes and all that.
    You really changed what I said to make your point. So much that it doesn’t look like you are speaking to me. Again, you say I expect EVERY fight to be top guy vs top guy. I ask you to name 1 this year, just 1. Instead of acknowledging that not 1 time has that happened in all of boxing in all of this year you switch to how I don’t like tournaments. Sure, it’s nonsense but if you put words in my mouth I’m wrong right? Is this really Primo?

    I love tournaments because they get to the answers sometimes. I just want some of the answers sometimes. But that’s too much to ask right? I eagerly await your next switch

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    Canelo v Jacobs me 1 an 2. SSR v Estrada me 1 an 2

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    Default Re: Pacquiao vs Thurman

    So apparently no VADA testing for this fight. What a joke. I honestly don’t trust either of these fighters being clean

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