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Thread: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

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    Default Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    I'm a boxing fan. I couldn't care less about the financial arrangements made for fights.... who gets what.... who's the promoter.... blah, blah, blah.

    As a boxing fan, I am the consumer of the product. Since boxing is no longer free, I like most everyone else pay for the occasional PPV fight and as a paying customer, like to receive value for my money.

    This is a boxing forum, and yet we spend more time talking about contract ins-and-outs than we do about the fights themselves.

    Why can't "X" face "Y"..... why promoter Joe Blow's fighters can't fight against promoter John Doe's fighters. As a fan, all that does is frustrate me because I can't see the fights I (as well as most boxing fans) I want to see.

    I understand the marketing aspect of letting fights build up.... but boxing takes this beyond the point of ridiculous and into the Twilight Zone. And we all helplessly complain and wring our hands and then watch a fight 5 years beyond its expiration date.




    Now.....

    Needless to say, there is a veritable glut of boxing commissions, sanctioning bodies, governing bodies, and other meaningless names... making up a dysfunctional jumble of organizations whose functions and responsibilities, some of us mere mortals do not understand.

    Also needless to say, boxing's very livelihood depends on us boxing fans, the consumers. Yet we historically put up with a myriad of problems including:


    1. Inept and corrupt fight judges and shady, shameful decisions.

    2. Fights that we want but do not get made.

    3. Proliferation of "title" belts to the point they're as valuable and significant as a Cracker Jack surprise.


    #2 is probably the most frustrating of all. Fans/consumers want the fight..... the fighters want the fight..... but we don't get the fight. All because Joe Blow "can't work with" John Doe. And so we're held hostage because of two corrupt, greedy, two-faced, lying idiots..... and products are withheld from the public until they're expired and rotten. Then we buy them anyway among the bitching and moaning.


    Back to the interminable number and types of boxing organizations, commissions, regulatory boards, sanctioning bodies, governing bodies, and ALL KINDS of boards and bodies.

    Someone please enlighten this poor soul.

    Why can't we have an EFFECTIVE governing body (for lack of an not-already-used name) that can draw up some rules for boxing promoters??

    Do they already exist? Am I missing something here? Are we not entitled to know what in hell is going on behind the scenes?



    Professional football players (in the States) have their teams. But all players and teams must answer to the NFL, which sets all the rules and governs the sport.

    Oh... you want individual players? Ok then, how about professional tennis players and golfers? In tennis there is the WTA, and in golf you have the PGA.

    Still not the same? Oh well... can't think of any other examples at the moment.


    All I'm saying is... we know the problems, as does the rest of the boxing world. Why do we have to let a handful of sleazy promoters get in the way of the sport we love? And why do we have to live with a jumble of organizations which individually have zero control over the entire sport, and collectively work together as well as a bunch of jungle predators thrown together in the same cage with one single piece of red meat?

    Pathetic.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    The writers are the single biggest issue. These bitch made cowards let the promoters lie to them for access. Bob won’t give me credentials if I question this obvious lie. Eddie won’t give me the next interview if I call his BS what it is.

    Someone stands up to them and the web of deceit crumbles. Bob doesn’t know if Al is a person when it’s time to talk Garcia/Loma but simultaneously he is working with Al on Wilder/Fury. Call the BS BS and the stupid don’t believe the stupid.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    I know people will say it has always gone on but has it really been this bad?

    There are far too many ppv platforms and that has resulted in many promoters with their stables assigned to these TV companies which result in the top fighters not being able to fight one another.

    Some of these fighters are happy and content with this arrangement as they get well paid and do not want to risk their unbeaten record.

    Sure is sad that we are missing our classic Leonard v Hearns or not so classic Oscar v Tito fights.

    I do not think we will get Crawford v Spence and the AJ v Wilder is tainted now.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I know people will say it has always gone on but has it really been this bad?

    There are far too many ppv platforms and that has resulted in many promoters with their stables assigned to these TV companies which result in the top fighters not being able to fight one another.

    Some of these fighters are happy and content with this arrangement as they get well paid and do not want to risk their unbeaten record.

    Sure is sad that we are missing our classic Leonard v Hearns or not so classic Oscar v Tito fights.

    I do not think we will get Crawford v Spence and the AJ v Wilder is tainted now.
    double Bingo! It hasn't ever been this bad and AJ Wilder is forever tainted.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I know people will say it has always gone on but has it really been this bad?

    There are far too many ppv platforms and that has resulted in many promoters with their stables assigned to these TV companies which result in the top fighters not being able to fight one another.

    Some of these fighters are happy and content with this arrangement as they get well paid and do not want to risk their unbeaten record.

    Sure is sad that we are missing our classic Leonard v Hearns or not so classic Oscar v Tito fights.

    I do not think we will get Crawford v Spence and the AJ v Wilder is tainted now..
    Wait a minute, AJ v Wilder is tainted because AJ lost and Wilder virtually lost.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I know people will say it has always gone on but has it really been this bad?

    There are far too many ppv platforms and that has resulted in many promoters with their stables assigned to these TV companies which result in the top fighters not being able to fight one another.

    Some of these fighters are happy and content with this arrangement as they get well paid and do not want to risk their unbeaten record.

    Sure is sad that we are missing our classic Leonard v Hearns or not so classic Oscar v Tito fights.

    I do not think we will get Crawford v Spence and the AJ v Wilder is tainted now..
    Wait a minute, AJ v Wilder is tainted because AJ lost and Wilder virtually lost.
    Mainly because AJ lost his zero. It would have been epic to have seen 2 undefeated heavyweight champions unifying the titles.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Iceing on the cake is AJ loses to Ruiz again, this is practically garanteed, just a few rounds earlier this go around. Wilder is now too old. Pit 2 and 2 together and, AJ Wilder is dead.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    The writers are the single biggest issue. These bitch made cowards let the promoters lie to them for access. Bob won’t give me credentials if I question this obvious lie. Eddie won’t give me the next interview if I call his BS what it is.

    Someone stands up to them and the web of deceit crumbles. Bob doesn’t know if Al is a person when it’s time to talk Garcia/Loma but simultaneously he is working with Al on Wilder/Fury. Call the BS BS and the stupid don’t believe the stupid.
    The writers? Ha! as if. There is not the appetite for decent writing out there, sports or or any other kind like there used to be. Newspapers do not have the clout they used to and people are not given the room and time to build a career. They are still some magnificent writers out there but they have little to no power or influence because the world has changed.
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.
    This is also where the magic lies and what makes it magnificent...still. People say things like "It is all a Circus" and bloody well ..duh.. yes that is kind of the point of PRIZE FIGHTERS. They are there to entertain, and the fact that there is still honour, integrity , sportsmanship and competitiveness there are in fights today, however inconsistent that is, should be applauded. It is Rock and Roll, Art, Poetry in Motion, and sometimes just simple violence but it just would not ever have become what it is without the bullshit artists, the blagging promoters, the crazy managers, the impresarios,he chancers and wide boys made good.

    The fighters are more than just commodities to us and to their mangers and coaches but for promoters with large stables, they are also bargaining chips and assets. They (the promoters) drive hard bargains to enrich themselves and the fighters benefit but yes there comes a point where they are devaluing big fights by holding on to a blinding hand for far too long.

    If it was more regulated it would run a big risk of making also-rans and supporting acts irrelevant. The whole shebang would shrink and become more predictable, financially unsustainable (WBSS?) and less entertaining. Be careful what you wish for.
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    The olden days...Tex Rickard...Nat Fleischer... Did you know when text Rickard died his body was placed in a $15,000 bronze coffin and placed in the centre of Madison square garden? thousands and thousands pass to buy his coffin to pay respects to the greatest boxing promoter of all time. Record was a lawman and a cattle rancher and a mine owner, gambling Hall proprietor, champion poker player and Superstar fight promoter who used to bring in 5 million dollar Gates.

    Before text Rickard came along fights were wild and chaotic events where people had to have their wits about them. there was a high risk but he changed the face of boxing with printed tickets with prices on them and seat numbers. He would employ security staff who made sure that you got the seat that you paid for. the tickets even had the dates printed on them and he transformed the sport of boxing into a place that you might take your lady to.

    He died a few days after his 59th birthday.

    Thanks a million, Tex.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    The olden days...Tex Rickard...Nat Fleischer... Did you know when text Rickard died his body was placed in a $15,000 bronze coffin and placed in the centre of Madison square garden? thousands and thousands pass to buy his coffin to pay respects to the greatest boxing promoter of all time. Record was a lawman and a cattle rancher and a mine owner, gambling Hall proprietor, champion poker player and Superstar fight promoter who used to bring in 5 million dollar Gates.

    Before text Rickard came along fights were wild and chaotic events where people had to have their wits about them. there was a high risk but he changed the face of boxing with printed tickets with prices on them and seat numbers. He would employ security staff who made sure that you got the seat that you paid for. the tickets even had the dates printed on them and he transformed the sport of boxing into a place that you might take your lady to.

    He died a few days after his 59th birthday.

    Thanks a million, Tex.

    Interesting character who did a lot for boxing back in those days. Pretty straightforward back then. Fighters developed and created a following... promoters promoted... fights occurred... and everybody was a winner.

    Can't imagine Rickard letting Dempsey vs. Tunney marinate.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    I also consider the ridiculous number of belts an obstacle. There should be one belt and that one belt holder be the best fighter willing to take on anybody, injury permitting, 2-3 times a year. It has become meaningless.

    Then there are the judges who seem to be accountable to nobody and at least be expected to understand the rules of boxing, not have ADHD, be required to check for blindness a couple of times a year, and performance inhibiting drugs.

    Then of course we do have our 'friends' the promoters, who seem to have these tough men wrapped around their legalese.

    And of course some fighters who just go along with it. I love Calzaghe, but there was never an excuse for some of those fights. Manfredo....just a con job pay day. You have to call it for what it is. Canelo/Khan....a disgrace. Nobody needs to see any of that.
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Its decayed down to where now, listen to all of us here. Jose Sulaiman and Don King shannanigans for decades. Larry Holmes had none of it and got robbed. I saw how it is thought Don King stole 100 mill from Tyson.

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