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Thread: Not GGG bashing but...

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    I’m just trying to be fair all around. I say the same thing about Canelo. Canelo finally beat Jacobs close but clearly, but every other good fighter before that he won a fight that could have gone either way (Trout, Lara, GGG).

    I will reiterate. Some fighters look more impressive because of their style and power against lesser competition. It’s when you step up that you see what level you are on. Same with Spence. If Spence keeps stepping up his competition and continues to win close/controversial decisions, then he will be in the same boat.

    Great fighters can narrowly beat a lot of good fighters. Elite fighters will inevitably have close fights, but will prove to be able to dominate great fighters. So I’m saying that GGG is great but just not ATG level. He never proved real separation against his best competition.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    It is like watching Hagler at the tail end of his career. That bit older, slower and vulnerable waiting for a young gun to finally beat him.

    Golovkin crushed all his main challengers but did not have that classic rivalry or career defining fight.

    The Canelo contests were ruined and as a result do not count.
    Ffs! Stop posting like a 10 year old. Of course they fucking count! Both fights were close, so even if you think GGG won, they’re not exactly a robbery either way.
    I don’t know what the fuss is all about, I genuinely thought the 1st fight was a draw, and I genuinely thought Canelo one the 2nd. But I totally see how people might have had it different.
    There have been way worse decisions. Come on, I’m not a fan of Canelo , and until GGG started whoring himself out to Canelo like a little bitch, I was a fan of his. But you have to see it as it is.

    Some of us think GGG should've won both fights, so go figure. Canelo wasn't going to lose a decision in Vegas... and anyone who thinks otherwise probably still believes in the stork.

    This time around GGG was the bigger name, so he probably got a little bit of a consolation gift decision.

    The bigger name gets the nod. And there ain't no bigger name in Vegas than Canelo.
    Like I said, I get that, and although I don’t agree, I wouldn’t argue massively against it. There wasn’t a lot in it.
    But my point is, you know you’re not gonna get a decision in Vegas against Canelo after the first fight.
    So why bother chasing a rematch unless you’re gonna go in hard looking for a KO?

    GGG looked less likely to KO Canelo in the 2nd fight than he did in the 1st. So why bother?


    Absolutely Primo. No issues with that. The 2nd fight was puzzling and maddening all at the same time.
    It was a bit similar to that in the fight this weekend too. Some say sickness, some say age, but GGG just wasn't quite pulling the trigger like he once did and was retreating a lot. I think the KD saved him, but just maybe his opponents are better, know what is coming now, and that he has declined somewhat too. Asides from Canelo who I honestly do not rate like Beanz seems to, GGG has been taking tune ups and just maybe he has lost his way and father time has taken what he had.

    At the end of the day he is 37 and won't get any better with the style he has. I also don't like how he seems to just block punches with his head either. The man has a chin for sure, but I don't like seeing a man not really attempt to avoid the punches. We have seen that more since Brook.

    Maybe a rematch to prove his doubters wrong, but he didn't rematch Jacobs and we will see with this. It would be nice to see him comeback and put on a convincing display, but he really did squeak this one and that first round KD wasn't much of a KD.
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  3. #18
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    I thought Golovkin won the fight last night, won the first Canelo fight and narrowly won the second Canelo fight, (though I could see how you could make it a draw or give it to Canelo, you can't do that with the first one so easily) . Is GGG not allowed narrow wins or close fights then? Surely being in those kind of fights and getting the win adds to his legacy not takes away? I don't think Canelo is over rated at all. He is massively under-rated. All the weight difference and drug cheating stuff is bollocks don't get me wrong, he doesn't get a free pass, but i think that has caused people to be very grudging in awarding him any justified praise. Much of his boxing is very classy and at times, sublime. He is an elite fighter and Oscar being a dick does not nullify that. So with that in mind GGG is anything but a mug. He fought someone who will go down as a modern great (maybe not at the same level as many past greats) arguably beat him twice, made a ton of money and increased his exposure and has dealt with every fighter put in front of him with real gutsy and quality displays.

    Great Fighter.


    I was trying to follow you on that until I got to the "massively under-rated" part.


    HAHAHAHAHA!!!


    Stop it you're killing me here. Did you reread what you just wrote?? Massively underrated?? Canelo is Mr. Boxing, FFS man!! Wake the f*ck up and smell the roses!

    Nobody underrates Canelo. TV fawns all over him. Non-boxing fans are acutely aware of that "handsome" ginger face. Vegas will probably be renamed in his honor. They're even building a NEW STADIUM, FFS..... not for the relocated NFL franchise, which is just a flimsy excuse and what Vegas would want you to believe. It's gonna be a shrine for The Anointed One.

    In what galaxy, pray tell..... is Canelo even f*cking remotely close to being underrated?? Is this just another language difference between your part of the world and this one?

    Dude..... I've read some doozies in my 15 years here. But this one tops them all. Canelo is not just underrated. He's MASSIVELY underrated.

    Do me a favor. Be available for my next party, so I can use you for comedy. If things get slow, you can tell everyone what you just said about Canelo being "massively" underrated. I promise you, you'll have them rolling in the aisles till sunup.



    The King of Boxing, who has his own boxing dates..... his own belts (which the WBC lovingly crafts for him)..... his own judges (he pays good money for them)..... and his legions of screaming female (or effeminate) fans...... is....... how'd you put it?

    MASSIVELY UNDERRATED

    Wow.

    All of a sudden I have an urge to take a huge dump.
    Damn.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Golovkin is definitely an all-time great middleweight and first ballot HOFamer. All fighters that dominate one division for years get accused of weak opposition - Hagler, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Roy etc. In this day and age you can say he never unified the four belts, but having faced the highest ranked middleweights at the time offsets it (Canelo and Jacobs were top dog challenger when Golovkin faced them).

    The greatest fighters in history suffer losses let alone have competitive, controversial, close fights against supposed subpar opposition.

    Fair to say Canelo is the only fellow "great" on his record, and it's tragic the "L" will become more and more accepted in future regardless of how "greater" Canelo becomes, as he's the modern day Leonard, Tito, Oscar.
    Last edited by Fenster; 10-07-2019 at 07:12 AM.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    I thought Golovkin won the fight last night, won the first Canelo fight and narrowly won the second Canelo fight, (though I could see how you could make it a draw or give it to Canelo, you can't do that with the first one so easily) . Is GGG not allowed narrow wins or close fights then? Surely being in those kind of fights and getting the win adds to his legacy not takes away? I don't think Canelo is over rated at all. He is massively under-rated. All the weight difference and drug cheating stuff is bollocks don't get me wrong, he doesn't get a free pass, but i think that has caused people to be very grudging in awarding him any justified praise. Much of his boxing is very classy and at times, sublime. He is an elite fighter and Oscar being a dick does not nullify that. So with that in mind GGG is anything but a mug. He fought someone who will go down as a modern great (maybe not at the same level as many past greats) arguably beat him twice, made a ton of money and increased his exposure and has dealt with every fighter put in front of him with real gutsy and quality displays.

    Great Fighter.


    I was trying to follow you on that until I got to the "massively under-rated" part.


    HAHAHAHAHA!!!


    Stop it you're killing me here. Did you reread what you just wrote?? Massively underrated?? Canelo is Mr. Boxing, FFS man!! Wake the f*ck up and smell the roses!

    Nobody underrates Canelo. TV fawns all over him. Non-boxing fans are acutely aware of that "handsome" ginger face. Vegas will probably be renamed in his honor. They're even building a NEW STADIUM, FFS..... not for the relocated NFL franchise, which is just a flimsy excuse and what Vegas would want you to believe. It's gonna be a shrine for The Anointed One.

    In what galaxy, pray tell..... is Canelo even f*cking remotely close to being underrated?? Is this just another language difference between your part of the world and this one?

    Dude..... I've read some doozies in my 15 years here. But this one tops them all. Canelo is not just underrated. He's MASSIVELY underrated.

    Do me a favor. Be available for my next party, so I can use you for comedy. If things get slow, you can tell everyone what you just said about Canelo being "massively" underrated. I promise you, you'll have them rolling in the aisles till sunup.



    The King of Boxing, who has his own boxing dates..... his own belts (which the WBC lovingly crafts for him)..... his own judges (he pays good money for them)..... and his legions of screaming female (or effeminate) fans...... is....... how'd you put it?

    MASSIVELY UNDERRATED

    Wow.

    All of a sudden I have an urge to take a huge dump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erics44 View Post
    is everyone who has lost an unbeaten record a hype job?

    at what point does someone stop being a hype job, as in how high up the ladder does someone have to go before a loss is acceptable

    for example canelo just lost to mayweather and many times i have read on here that he is a hype job as shown by the defeat

    yet he just lost to the best fighter in the world

    if you are a popular fighter in the media, are you a hype job if you cant beat mayweather?



    The easy, simple way is to look only at the number of wins and losses.
    The more correct, more involved way is to look at the quality of opponents in that record.
    So are you admitting that Canelo is not a hype job ? The best way to assess a fighters pedigree is to watch them fight with an open mind. If you wear blinkers then you end up seeing exactly what you want to see.


    You don't post as much on the main board as you do the others, but this particular topic seems to have sparked your interest. Yeah ok, I'm not gonna pretend I had absolutely no bias while watching the fight. But some things are just plain factual. That Canelo's previously unbeaten record of 42 victories doesn't stack up well against those of other fighters with less wins and some losses? You can argue against that, but you'd be wrong. That the Canelo-Floyd fight was hyped more than just about any recent fight on record? That's pretty clear also, I believe. And that Canelo failed to deliver what many expected, given the gaudy record and the hype? Well.... most observers had it as a shutout, maybe charitably giving Canelo one round.

    Maybe if I hadn't expressed myself so fervently about the fight, you'd be singing a different tune yourself. But rather, you wait to see which side you should take, and then take it. No problem.

    I start plenty of threads on the main board and have always said that Canelo is underrated. So your nonsense just doesn't wash.Your last 30 odd posts have been about Canelo being unjustly rewarded and it just sounds like sour grapes. You have been calling everyone left right and centre who disagrees with you a cunt. I am not alone in noticing this. I am trying to be civil but your output is overwhelmingly negative and confrontational and its getting old fast. You have preconceptions about everyone and everything so it is pointless even trying to show you common courtesy but just as a heads up, for everyone else around the world the Mexican-Puerto rivalry is a bit childish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    From 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Leighton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars_ax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    Call me crazy but I actually think Chavez Jr is a lot better than many guys think and will not only win this, but knock Alvarez out.

    I got Chavez Jr by stoppage around the 10th round
    .
    That's very possible Bilbo, a lot of us however, would like to Canelo win, by KO would be even sweeter.
    For me Canelo get hits too easily and too often. So far he hasn't fought any punchers but moving up to light middle he will be in with somebody bigger than himself.

    I'm not sold on Canelo's power or skills yet. I can't shake off the memory of Matthew Hatton coasting the 12 rounds with him. Gomez was schooling him until the premature stoppage. He can improve, he's only young so foolish to judge him as if he's the finished article, but I've been impressed with Chavez lately. He's maturing into a decent fighter and in his last fight showed he has real heart and a desire to win.

    This would be a great clash, and boxing heaven for those who like body punches. They will both have sore ribs the next day for sure.
    Alvarez is lazy in fights. He seems to want to win without breaking a sweat. He usualy comes to life for a few seconds when he gets hit too much. I have a feeling that if Chavez puts him in a position hes never been in, you will see a very deadly Alvarez. Thats just an assumption though. To me he looks like that sort of person.
    I think your right I remember first seeing Alvarez hurt by Jose Cotto in the 1st round last year and it seemed to wake him up. This is why Chavez will struggle his instincts will lead him to believe that he can dominate in his own weight division but the more he puts on Alvarez the better he will get. He also showed against Rhodes he can fight on the backfoot and is far from one dimensional, unlike Chavez he has continued to test himself and his rate of improvement is greater. Chavez is no bum but "Canelo" has the potential to become HOF great.
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Major miscalculation on Team Chavez's part. Probably banking on some of Canelo's recent lackluster performances. But punching power, combined with Junior's largely untested chin and heart, could factor into a big surprise.

    Personally, I'd be whooping and hollering in favor of Canelo, hoping for a devastating KTFO.


    He is underrated by many posters on boxing forums who can't bring themselves to acknowledge his skill set and dedication to his craft.
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  6. #21
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    He has skills for sure, but he also loses a lot of rounds against a lot of fighters. Even a fat Amir Khan. If logic wins and something fishy isn't up, that chin is getting cracked next month.
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  7. #22
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    It is like watching Hagler at the tail end of his career. That bit older, slower and vulnerable waiting for a young gun to finally beat him.

    Golovkin crushed all his main challengers but did not have that classic rivalry or career defining fight.

    The Canelo contests were ruined and as a result do not count.
    Ffs! Stop posting like a 10 year old. Of course they fucking count! Both fights were close, so even if you think GGG won, they’re not exactly a robbery either way.
    I don’t know what the fuss is all about, I genuinely thought the 1st fight was a draw, and I genuinely thought Canelo one the 2nd. But I totally see how people might have had it different.
    There have been way worse decisions. Come on, I’m not a fan of Canelo , and until GGG started whoring himself out to Canelo like a little bitch, I was a fan of his. But you have to see it as it is.

    Some of us think GGG should've won both fights, so go figure. Canelo wasn't going to lose a decision in Vegas... and anyone who thinks otherwise probably still believes in the stork.

    This time around GGG was the bigger name, so he probably got a little bit of a consolation gift decision.

    The bigger name gets the nod. And there ain't no bigger name in Vegas than Canelo.
    Like I said, I get that, and although I don’t agree, I wouldn’t argue massively against it. There wasn’t a lot in it.
    But my point is, you know you’re not gonna get a decision in Vegas against Canelo after the first fight.
    So why bother chasing a rematch unless you’re gonna go in hard looking for a KO?
    GGG looked less likely to KO Canelo in the 2nd fight than he did in the 1st. So why bother?
    The object of professional boxing is to earn as much money as possible and he would earn in one defence against Canelo the same as if he had in 10 defences. I am sure he would have loved to tell Canelo and Oscar where to go but the economics of it meant he had to wait and take the rematch.

    Just like Hagler did with Leonard.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    It is like watching Hagler at the tail end of his career. That bit older, slower and vulnerable waiting for a young gun to finally beat him.

    Golovkin crushed all his main challengers but did not have that classic rivalry or career defining fight.

    The Canelo contests were ruined and as a result do not count.
    Ffs! Stop posting like a 10 year old. Of course they fucking count! Both fights were close, so even if you think GGG won, they’re not exactly a robbery either way.
    I don’t know what the fuss is all about, I genuinely thought the 1st fight was a draw, and I genuinely thought Canelo one the 2nd. But I totally see how people might have had it different.
    There have been way worse decisions. Come on, I’m not a fan of Canelo , and until GGG started whoring himself out to Canelo like a little bitch, I was a fan of his. But you have to see it as it is.

    Some of us think GGG should've won both fights, so go figure. Canelo wasn't going to lose a decision in Vegas... and anyone who thinks otherwise probably still believes in the stork.

    This time around GGG was the bigger name, so he probably got a little bit of a consolation gift decision.

    The bigger name gets the nod. And there ain't no bigger name in Vegas than Canelo.
    Like I said, I get that, and although I don’t agree, I wouldn’t argue massively against it. There wasn’t a lot in it.
    But my point is, you know you’re not gonna get a decision in Vegas against Canelo after the first fight.
    So why bother chasing a rematch unless you’re gonna go in hard looking for a KO?
    GGG looked less likely to KO Canelo in the 2nd fight than he did in the 1st. So why bother?
    The object of professional boxing is to earn as much money as possible and he would earn in one defence against Canelo the same as if he had in 10 defences. I am sure he would have loved to tell Canelo and Oscar where to go but the economics of it meant he had to wait and take the rematch.

    Just like Hagler did with Leonard.
    Unsurprisingly I don’t see it like that. When Oscar was doing all his “A side,Diva stuff” , I GGG had carried on as he was and creating his own legacy, GBP were running out of opponents for the Caneloweight title, and credibility was running low.
    They should’ve made Oscar boil in his own piss by ignoring him and they would’ve had nowhere to go.
    Instead he became Oscar’s bitch.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Golovkin is definitely an all-time great middleweight and first ballot HOFamer. All fighters that dominate one division for years get accused of weak opposition - Hagler, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Roy etc. In this day and age you can say he never unified the four belts, but having faced the highest ranked middleweights at the time offsets it (Canelo and Jacobs were top dog challenger when Golovkin faced them).

    The greatest fighters in history suffer losses let alone have competitive, controversial, close fights against supposed subpar opposition.

    Fair to say Canelo is the only fellow "great" on his record, and it's tragic the "L" will become more and more accepted in future regardless of how "greater" Canelo becomes, as he's the modern day Leonard, Tito, Oscar.
    But those great middleweights had very convincing wins against HOFers. They all proved that they could step up their game when needed. Every fighter will have some close fights. That’s a given. But when you have a close fight every time you step up in competition, you prove yourself to be on their level and not a level above.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    I thought Golovkin won the fight last night, won the first Canelo fight and narrowly won the second Canelo fight, (though I could see how you could make it a draw or give it to Canelo, you can't do that with the first one so easily) . Is GGG not allowed narrow wins or close fights then? Surely being in those kind of fights and getting the win adds to his legacy not takes away? I don't think Canelo is over rated at all. He is massively under-rated. All the weight difference and drug cheating stuff is bollocks don't get me wrong, he doesn't get a free pass, but i think that has caused people to be very grudging in awarding him any justified praise. Much of his boxing is very classy and at times, sublime. He is an elite fighter and Oscar being a dick does not nullify that. So with that in mind GGG is anything but a mug. He fought someone who will go down as a modern great (maybe not at the same level as many past greats) arguably beat him twice, made a ton of money and increased his exposure and has dealt with every fighter put in front of him with real gutsy and quality displays.

    Great Fighter.


    I was trying to follow you on that until I got to the "massively under-rated" part.


    HAHAHAHAHA!!!


    Stop it you're killing me here. Did you reread what you just wrote?? Massively underrated?? Canelo is Mr. Boxing, FFS man!! Wake the f*ck up and smell the roses!

    Nobody underrates Canelo. TV fawns all over him. Non-boxing fans are acutely aware of that "handsome" ginger face. Vegas will probably be renamed in his honor. They're even building a NEW STADIUM, FFS..... not for the relocated NFL franchise, which is just a flimsy excuse and what Vegas would want you to believe. It's gonna be a shrine for The Anointed One.

    In what galaxy, pray tell..... is Canelo even f*cking remotely close to being underrated?? Is this just another language difference between your part of the world and this one?

    Dude..... I've read some doozies in my 15 years here. But this one tops them all. Canelo is not just underrated. He's MASSIVELY underrated.

    Do me a favor. Be available for my next party, so I can use you for comedy. If things get slow, you can tell everyone what you just said about Canelo being "massively" underrated. I promise you, you'll have them rolling in the aisles till sunup.



    The King of Boxing, who has his own boxing dates..... his own belts (which the WBC lovingly crafts for him)..... his own judges (he pays good money for them)..... and his legions of screaming female (or effeminate) fans...... is....... how'd you put it?

    MASSIVELY UNDERRATED

    Wow.

    All of a sudden I have an urge to take a huge dump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erics44 View Post
    is everyone who has lost an unbeaten record a hype job?

    at what point does someone stop being a hype job, as in how high up the ladder does someone have to go before a loss is acceptable

    for example canelo just lost to mayweather and many times i have read on here that he is a hype job as shown by the defeat

    yet he just lost to the best fighter in the world

    if you are a popular fighter in the media, are you a hype job if you cant beat mayweather?



    The easy, simple way is to look only at the number of wins and losses.
    The more correct, more involved way is to look at the quality of opponents in that record.
    So are you admitting that Canelo is not a hype job ? The best way to assess a fighters pedigree is to watch them fight with an open mind. If you wear blinkers then you end up seeing exactly what you want to see.


    You don't post as much on the main board as you do the others, but this particular topic seems to have sparked your interest. Yeah ok, I'm not gonna pretend I had absolutely no bias while watching the fight. But some things are just plain factual. That Canelo's previously unbeaten record of 42 victories doesn't stack up well against those of other fighters with less wins and some losses? You can argue against that, but you'd be wrong. That the Canelo-Floyd fight was hyped more than just about any recent fight on record? That's pretty clear also, I believe. And that Canelo failed to deliver what many expected, given the gaudy record and the hype? Well.... most observers had it as a shutout, maybe charitably giving Canelo one round.

    Maybe if I hadn't expressed myself so fervently about the fight, you'd be singing a different tune yourself. But rather, you wait to see which side you should take, and then take it. No problem.

    I start plenty of threads on the main board and have always said that Canelo is underrated. So your nonsense just doesn't wash.Your last 30 odd posts have been about Canelo being unjustly rewarded and it just sounds like sour grapes. You have been calling everyone left right and centre who disagrees with you a cunt. I am not alone in noticing this. I am trying to be civil but your output is overwhelmingly negative and confrontational and its getting old fast. You have preconceptions about everyone and everything so it is pointless even trying to show you common courtesy but just as a heads up, for everyone else around the world the Mexican-Puerto rivalry is a bit childish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    From 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Leighton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars_ax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    Call me crazy but I actually think Chavez Jr is a lot better than many guys think and will not only win this, but knock Alvarez out.

    I got Chavez Jr by stoppage around the 10th round
    .
    That's very possible Bilbo, a lot of us however, would like to Canelo win, by KO would be even sweeter.
    For me Canelo get hits too easily and too often. So far he hasn't fought any punchers but moving up to light middle he will be in with somebody bigger than himself.

    I'm not sold on Canelo's power or skills yet. I can't shake off the memory of Matthew Hatton coasting the 12 rounds with him. Gomez was schooling him until the premature stoppage. He can improve, he's only young so foolish to judge him as if he's the finished article, but I've been impressed with Chavez lately. He's maturing into a decent fighter and in his last fight showed he has real heart and a desire to win.

    This would be a great clash, and boxing heaven for those who like body punches. They will both have sore ribs the next day for sure.
    Alvarez is lazy in fights. He seems to want to win without breaking a sweat. He usualy comes to life for a few seconds when he gets hit too much. I have a feeling that if Chavez puts him in a position hes never been in, you will see a very deadly Alvarez. Thats just an assumption though. To me he looks like that sort of person.
    I think your right I remember first seeing Alvarez hurt by Jose Cotto in the 1st round last year and it seemed to wake him up. This is why Chavez will struggle his instincts will lead him to believe that he can dominate in his own weight division but the more he puts on Alvarez the better he will get. He also showed against Rhodes he can fight on the backfoot and is far from one dimensional, unlike Chavez he has continued to test himself and his rate of improvement is greater. Chavez is no bum but "Canelo" has the potential to become HOF great.
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Major miscalculation on Team Chavez's part. Probably banking on some of Canelo's recent lackluster performances. But punching power, combined with Junior's largely untested chin and heart, could factor into a big surprise.

    Personally, I'd be whooping and hollering in favor of Canelo, hoping for a devastating KTFO.


    He is underrated by many posters on boxing forums who can't bring themselves to acknowledge his skill set and dedication to his craft.
    Fantastic retort. Totally substantiates original statement that YES Canelo IS underrated by MANY posters. Uncanny ability to integrate diverse sources of corroborating info -- oftentimes remote and forgotten -- to build and win an argument. Should have been a lawyer. Maybe really is in real life. Great stuff.

    Jealous, actually.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Most of us don't have the time nor the inclination to dredge up old posts like that.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    GGG is a warrior but should have fought BJS and he should or could have move moved up in weight..BUT..he stayed where the money was (Canelo) rather than risk it as a multiple weight champion..there was also a potential fight with Andre Ward by meeting at 160..if he beat Ward he would have been P4P.

    I had both fights with Canelo close and GGG could not seem to copy or better what an old, smaller Floyd Mayweather did to Canelo.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Canelo is most certainly NOT massive underrated (that is beyond comical, TBH)..... and is most decidedly OVERrated.
    I'll proceed to list the reasons why.

    1. The ONE time Canelo got put in with the consensus #1 p4p, in the form of Floyd Mayweather, he was shutout in embarrassing fashion. It wasn't even close. Those who had demanded that the fight happen had to watch helplessly as Floyd proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the two didn't belong in the same ring. To Canelo's credit, he's got so much pull with the Vegas mafia, that one PROFESSIONAL boxing judge inexplicably called the fight a draw. The fact that this judge still judges fights is a testament to the corruption in boxing, and to the favoritism of the WBC toward marquee Mexican champions such as Canelo.

    2. When Amir Khan stupidly got in the ring with Canelo, two weight divisions higher, he was ALSO shutting out Canelo. But Canelo just bided his time, much like Teofilo Stevenson used to do in the heavyweights with his big right hand cocked and loaded. Inevitably all Canelo had to do was connect once..... and that's exactly what happened. Circus show of a fight.

    3. Canelo fought his first 30 fights against a collection of nobodies, has-beens, never-will-bes, over-the-hill fighters, and woefully undersized opposition. Size was always in Canelo's favor. He was groomed for stardom (not greatness..... there's a difference) since Day One. Why? Because he was a handsome, ginger-haired Mexican who would make the girls swoon and could develop legions of fans. By the time he was finished bloating his record, he already had the silver spoon in his mouth.

    4. Canelo has been the benefactor of plenty of dodgy decisions. Please nobody try and make it all about Golovkin. Canelo has had the judges in his pocket waaaaay before that. One of the only fights I'll give him credit for was Austin Trout. Erislandy Lara got robbed as well. In Vegas.... if you fight Ginger..... you'd better knock him out and STILL cross your fingers and hope you win the fight.

    5. The term "cherry picker" in the dictionary has Canelo's picture next to it. Look no further than Rocky Fielding, the butt of jokes even in this very forum. It was like watching a National Geographic documentary where the crocodile picks off the weak, lame buffalo calf as it scrunches down to get a drink of water at the river's edge. And like the crocodile, off goes Canelo... slinking back into the middleweight river, lest the other buffaloes get a hold of him.

    6. The GGG saga itself. Everyone forgets how Canelo chose to let the first fight with GGG (cough) "marinate", because Canelo still had to "grow" into 160 pounds. Instead, they were inviting GGG to go down to 154. Then..... out of the blue..... the crocodile spots the much heavier Julio Cesar Chavez Jr...... ripe for the picking like the mummy he is..... and goes up to 170. That's one hundred and seventy FUCKING pounds...... to pick JCC Jr. off. But supposedly he couldn't meet Golovkin at 160. It's all on Canelo's time. Anyone who doesn't realize that by now hasn't been around the last few years.

    7. Speaking of weights..... the catchweight bullshit. Sure... others have done it. But Canelo has made it his own sweet science. Frankly, it's become a joke. People in the know talk about Canelo fighting for the 165.75 pound championship and shit like that, because that's how much of a joke Canelo has turned weight divisions into. No matter. Canelo follows the JCC Jr. playbook to a tee..... and always manages to show up to fights 20 or more pounds heavier than the other guy.

    8. He's a drug cheat. On top of ALL THE OTHER FUCKING ADVANTAGES the Ginger has ever had bestowed upon him by everyone in boxing, where his throne had been dusted off while he was fighting cab drivers in Mexico, the guy STILL manages to sully his reputation by being a drug cheat. Then..... as if by Hollywood script..... he gets a tap on the wrist to the amount of a 6-month suspension, which was the time he was taking off between fights ANYWAY.



    "Canelo is massively underrated."


    Ha! You'll never find a better opening line for a standup routine than that one.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

    You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



    (:
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

    You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



    (:

    "Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

    You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

    Keep up the good work.


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