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Thread: Not GGG bashing but...

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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

    You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



    (:

    "Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

    You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

    Keep up the good work.

    TBH that second retort was not great like the first one, which was definitely great.

    And sir, Mr. Tito Fan, your points in response to that first great retort of Mr. Beanz was pretty pretty accurate. I thought it was nice the way you tried to imply that the ladies swooning over the Ginger-Haired One may have had something to do with the clenbuterol of the tainted beef in Guadalajara.

    I mean hell it's not like that stuff would not add to his testosterone levels.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

    You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



    (:

    "Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

    You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

    Keep up the good work.

    Your arguments were solid and on point. However, I take issue with you earlier calling Canelo handsome. If Calzaghe is a 9 then Canelo is at best a 5. He is like a weird fusion of Wayne Rooney and Prince Harry. That is not good. One of those men who needs a beard to cover the face up. A good looking man doesn't need bearding.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Canelo is definitely overrated by the masses. He may be underrated but some more hardcore fans. @TitoFan just hates Mexican fighters 😁

    Canelo is a really good fighter, but he is massively overrated because he isn’t a top five fighter but is generally a consensus top 3. He is in the bottom half of the top 10.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    For me Canelo is a SOLID fighter. He doesn't do anything exceptional. He doesn't stop opponents with power, he never dominates a top fighter, he goes 12 with the Matthew Hatton's of the world and loses badly to the Mayweather types, and takes way too much time off in rounds, but he does have skills and is very durable. I just think people are being honest when they criticize him. For me he is like a speeded up Baldomir with better movement. I think it is one reason Mayweather took him on. He knew he could pick him off. Hopefully he doesn't end up like Baldomir as he is a weirdo.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

    However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

    However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.
    I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

    That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

    Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

    However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.
    I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

    That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

    Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.
    Funk me, couldn't make it up. Thanks for proving my point.

    Your post is utterly cringeworthy - "beaten easily by Mayweather who struggled with Maidana"......"outboxed by Khan".... "Cotto and Mosley don't count".... "Lara robbed".... It is biased childish stuff. Childish.

    Seriously, dudes, it doesn't get more embarrassing than using a loss to Floyd as a put-down. Come on...
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    It is like watching Hagler at the tail end of his career. That bit older, slower and vulnerable waiting for a young gun to finally beat him.

    Golovkin crushed all his main challengers but did not have that classic rivalry or career defining fight.

    The Canelo contests were ruined and as a result do not count.
    Ffs! Stop posting like a 10 year old. Of course they fucking count! Both fights were close, so even if you think GGG won, they’re not exactly a robbery either way.
    I don’t know what the fuss is all about, I genuinely thought the 1st fight was a draw, and I genuinely thought Canelo one the 2nd. But I totally see how people might have had it different.
    There have been way worse decisions. Come on, I’m not a fan of Canelo , and until GGG started whoring himself out to Canelo like a little bitch, I was a fan of his. But you have to see it as it is.

    Some of us think GGG should've won both fights, so go figure. Canelo wasn't going to lose a decision in Vegas... and anyone who thinks otherwise probably still believes in the stork.

    This time around GGG was the bigger name, so he probably got a little bit of a consolation gift decision.

    The bigger name gets the nod. And there ain't no bigger name in Vegas than Canelo.
    Like I said, I get that, and although I don’t agree, I wouldn’t argue massively against it. There wasn’t a lot in it.
    But my point is, you know you’re not gonna get a decision in Vegas against Canelo after the first fight.
    So why bother chasing a rematch unless you’re gonna go in hard looking for a KO?
    GGG looked less likely to KO Canelo in the 2nd fight than he did in the 1st. So why bother?
    The object of professional boxing is to earn as much money as possible and he would earn in one defence against Canelo the same as if he had in 10 defences. I am sure he would have loved to tell Canelo and Oscar where to go but the economics of it meant he had to wait and take the rematch.

    Just like Hagler did with Leonard.
    Unsurprisingly I don’t see it like that. When Oscar was doing all his “A side,Diva stuff” , I GGG had carried on as he was and creating his own legacy, GBP were running out of opponents for the Caneloweight title, and credibility was running low.
    They should’ve made Oscar boil in his own piss by ignoring him and they would’ve had nowhere to go.
    Instead he became Oscar’s bitch.
    You stop posting like a 3 year old girl who believes in fairies and unicorns. Are you seriously telling me that GGG should turn away career high paydays? There are you tubers boxing on ppv who are absolutely rubbish at the sport and BJS is on the undercard, the boxing world is crazy. GGG did the right thing just admit it.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

    However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.
    I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

    That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

    Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.
    Funk me, couldn't make it up. Thanks for proving my point.

    Your post is utterly cringeworthy - "beaten easily by Mayweather who struggled with Maidana"......"outboxed by Khan".... "Cotto and Mosley don't count".... "Lara robbed".... It is biased childish stuff. Childish.

    Seriously, dudes, it doesn't get more embarrassing than using a loss to Floyd as a put-down. Come on...
    I have just watched Khan/Alvarez and seen a 2 division smaller guy just win 4 rounds on the trot. GGG tried that trick against Brook (less small) and didn't find himself in such a hole. An ATG does not lose as many rounds as Alvarez does. The ATG is a Calzaghe or a Jones or even early Mayweather type who wins effortlessly and at will.

    Can you imagine a Calzaghe in against Canelo? There are levels in boxing and Canelo is not on that level of adaptability, intelligence, or skill. He would be fun against certain champions, but he isn't a great by any means. He's a drugged up Baldomir squeaking his way through losses and then these other fights like Fielding, Smith, Angulo, Kirkland.

    It is trollish to even consider him an ATG. He has no decisive significant wins due to his strange stamina issues despite being in his 20's. He is OVERRATED.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

    However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.
    I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

    That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

    Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.
    Funk me, couldn't make it up. Thanks for proving my point.

    Your post is utterly cringeworthy - "beaten easily by Mayweather who struggled with Maidana"......"outboxed by Khan".... "Cotto and Mosley don't count".... "Lara robbed".... It is biased childish stuff. Childish.

    Seriously, dudes, it doesn't get more embarrassing than using a loss to Floyd as a put-down. Come on...
    I have just watched Khan/Alvarez and seen a 2 division smaller guy just win 4 rounds on the trot. GGG tried that trick against Brook (less small) and didn't find himself in such a hole. An ATG does not lose as many rounds as Alvarez does. The ATG is a Calzaghe or a Jones or even early Mayweather type who wins effortlessly and at will.

    Can you imagine a Calzaghe in against Canelo? There are levels in boxing and Canelo is not on that level of adaptability, intelligence, or skill. He would be fun against certain champions, but he isn't a great by any means. He's a drugged up Baldomir squeaking his way through losses and then these other fights like Fielding, Smith, Angulo, Kirkland.

    It is trollish to even consider him an ATG. He has no decisive significant wins due to his strange stamina issues despite being in his 20's. He is OVERRATED.
    The very point I made is growing stronger and stronger with your every post.
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  11. #41
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    You are making a case on victories that you know yourself did not happen despite them being on the record books. You also seem to ignore how easily he tends to be outboxed. It is just not the hallmark of an ATG. It would be like Mayweather losing the first 4 rounds to Marquez. And it was wrong to make that fight and miss the weight too.

    I make the case that he is a competent fighter. His main attrbutes being durability and having good handspeed and movement. However, he is hardly ATG.

    Manny is a much better fighter and despite his close mid career fights gave nearly everyone a chance to do it again. Canelo gets a gift and is never to be seen again.
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Canelo IS massively underrated. You are not alone in refusing to acknowledge his quite extraordinary career. He hasn't even finished yet.

    You don't have to like him or make excuses for the drugs, his weight shenanigans or pretend Oscar is not a knob. Just admit you and many have underrated him. What if he stops Kov?



    (:

    "Great" retort. Small wonder you got kudos from Fats. However, I just gave you 8 reasons why Canelo, if anything, is OVERrated. I could've easily made it 10.

    You respond with... "he's underrated because I said so."

    Keep up the good work.



    Make your mind up one minute you don't have the time or inclination to take 30 seconds to use the forums search function, and then you are drafting a bullet pointed and numbered 8 point reply

    1. At the age of 23 Canelo faces the most dominant champ of the previous 10 years. The Man. He did what Cotto did only 10 years younger. He joined the likes of Pacquiao, Marquez, Mosely, De la Hoya etc in ending the fight on his feet having learned a lot and not been stopped.

    2. Khan has always been MASSIVELY underrated. At times on a good night the guy is like the flash. Canelo did what he had to do sparking him in dramatic fashion. Circus show of a fight is a great compliment. Circus people are often good people and boxing would never be where it is today without them.

    3. After debuting at 15 Canelo fought and beat Miguel Vazquez in his third fight. Vazquez was 19 and Canelo 16. Within 4 years Vazquez had won the IBF lightweight title, a belt he held for four years defending that belt 8 times. That hardly makes him a 'nobody, has-been, never-will-be, or over-the-hill ' opponent.

    4. All Canelo can do is win the fight he is in. Dodgy decisions are there all the way through boxing from amateur to pro.

    5. He fought Feilding after fighting Golovkin twice, he then fought Jacobs. It seem you yourself are happy to cherry pick to confirm your own delusions.

    6. The one thing people like youself failed to get from the Golovkin saga was the irrefutable evidence it provided that Canelo had been underrated all along. The first fight was a modern classic and Alvarez proved he belonged at the very top table, even though he should have lost. He has constantly improved and added classy and sophisticated adjustments to his game you have to be a hater to miss.

    7. The whole weight thing is bollocks and I am not going to defend him for that.

    8. Similarly with the drugs bullshit. No excuses here for that.
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

    However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.
    Which is exactly why he is overrated by the media. Every cash cow will be overrated because money talks. You are just like everybody else who gets caught up in official decisions. Can you imagine if some of his decisions went the other way officially? Even if nothing changed about the fights. He just lost. I guarantee that you wouldn’t be saying he was a top 5 p4p guy. It’s only because he officially won these fights that he is rated as highly as he is.

    I guarantee you that if he weren’t a cash cow, he wouldn’t be rated anywhere near as high as he is now. As I said about GGG, Canelo hasn’t clearly beaten anybody good except for finally Jacobs. Before that, every decision against a good opponent was controversial. That doesn’t show me an elite fighter. That shows me a really good fighter.
    Last edited by powerpuncher; 10-08-2019 at 02:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Canelo is definitely overrated by the masses. He may be underrated but some more hardcore fans. @TitoFan just hates Mexican fighters 😁

    Canelo is a really good fighter, but he is massively overrated because he isn’t a top five fighter but is generally a consensus top 3. He is in the bottom half of the top 10.


    Bro... I like your short post the best. I'm going to post something now that may cause a small tremor in some places..... so I'd suggest you hold onto something firmly just in case.


    Canelo definitely IS a "really good fighter", as you put it. (There. Any shaking? Some here may still be digging out from under the rubble. )



    Ok.... now.... having said that, let me correct one more thing. Pleeeeeeease don't egg on those who actually think I hate all Mexican fighters

    It's not true. I was a MASSIVE fan (I can't stop using that word now) of MAB, JMM, and Finito Lopez. All classy gentlemen who rose to the top of their sport without the Silver Spoon treatment, or being fed a procession of dead bodies to fatten their artificial records.


    Now..... having said that.

    I still cannot believe someone here, on a serious boxing forum, would have the unmitigated gall of saying that Canelo is underrated. Not just underrated, but MASSIVELY underrated.

    My god..... I'm still reeling from that one. I'm serious..... it's the best comedic line in the history of the world. I'd definitely take Beanz on tour as long as he opened with that line. We'd make a fortune.



    The new Face of Boxing is anything BUT underrated. I gave 8 solid reasons why if anything, he's overrated..... and stopped at 8 because I didn't want to be accused of hating all Mexican fighters.

    After that, I haven't read one single word that will ever convince me to think otherwise. Those who feel he's underrated are definitely nuthugging to the Nth degree.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Not GGG bashing but...

    Too late B, I was egged.

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