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Thread: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Is that all you got?

    I said 25 defences showed great consistency and an incredible feat but he got beaten up and knocked out before that.

    When did I say Joe had to fight little babies in Frazier?

    What are you going on about?

    Throwing the rattle out of the pram.
    Yes all I have is statistical fact of achieved accomplishment in real life vs your hypotheticals and your feelings and your emotions. Yes.


    You go around in circles with "Joe Louis' era didn't have these fighters!" and my response is "Who did he duck?" you answer "No one, but his era didn't have these fighters" and so I'll say "What can be done about it? What could Joe do about it?" you'd respond "Nothing, I'm not asking for anything to be done, but his era didn't have these fighters".....what's the point of it?


    What are YOU going on about?


    I'd throw Ali to the fucking moon right now if I fucking could. It's unreasonable to talk to any Ali fan at all. "he's the greatest he's the GOAT he's the greatest"....HOW? WHY? ....well you see he ummm....


    See how different that is to "How is Joe Louis the greatest?" oh, well he holds a record still to this day of 25 consecutive successful title defenses so there's that concrete undeniable fact. But hey you believe what you want to believe man
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Is that all you got?

    I said 25 defences showed great consistency and an incredible feat but he got beaten up and knocked out before that.

    When did I say Joe had to fight little babies in Frazier?

    What are you going on about?

    Throwing the rattle out of the pram.
    Yes all I have is statistical fact of achieved accomplishment in real life vs your hypotheticals and your feelings and your emotions. Yes.


    You go around in circles with "Joe Louis' era didn't have these fighters!" and my response is "Who did he duck?" you answer "No one, but his era didn't have these fighters" and so I'll say "What can be done about it? What could Joe do about it?" you'd respond "Nothing, I'm not asking for anything to be done, but his era didn't have these fighters".....what's the point of it?


    What are YOU going on about?


    I'd throw Ali to the fucking moon right now if I fucking could. It's unreasonable to talk to any Ali fan at all. "he's the greatest he's the GOAT he's the greatest"....HOW? WHY? ....well you see he ummm....


    See how different that is to "How is Joe Louis the greatest?" oh, well he holds a record still to this day of 25 consecutive successful title defenses so there's that concrete undeniable fact. But hey you believe what you want to believe man
    Stop trying to make me sound unreasonable.

    I said name me a fighter that Joe Louis fought that would be in someone's top 10 list of heavyweight greats?

    You gave me a list of fighters that were frankly just not up it.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Stop trying to make me sound unreasonable.

    I said name me a fighter that Joe Louis fought that would be in someone's top 10 list of heavyweight greats?

    You gave me a list of fighters that were frankly just not up it.
    If you sound unreasonable it's because you are being unreasonable.

    And I said "Who did he duck? Who was there for him to fight?" ....he beat them, he beat all of them, he beat some of them twice, everyone in his era. Yet you hold this "Yeah but he has no top 10 heavyweight greats in his record" alright then Master what are the qualifications needed to obtain Top 10 heavyweight greatness? I mean they're certainly not ambiguous feeling and emotionally driven opinions riiiiiight?

    Now I want you to take notice, I never....I NEVER slate Ali based on who he didn't fight who wasn't around in his era. I NEVER do that. Ali could only fight who was in his era, which apparently you rate a great deal higher than any other era so I guess Ali was more LUCKY than good if what you're standing by what you're saying. Ali was more LUCKY to be in his era, where he could lose a few times and not have it impact his greatness, than say Joe Louis was in his era where he fought anyone and everyone but you didn't rate them so 25 in a row doesn't matter.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Stop trying to make me sound unreasonable.

    I said name me a fighter that Joe Louis fought that would be in someone's top 10 list of heavyweight greats?

    You gave me a list of fighters that were frankly just not up it.
    If you sound unreasonable it's because you are being unreasonable.

    And I said "Who did he duck? Who was there for him to fight?" ....he beat them, he beat all of them, he beat some of them twice, everyone in his era. Yet you hold this "Yeah but he has no top 10 heavyweight greats in his record" alright then Master what are the qualifications needed to obtain Top 10 heavyweight greatness? I mean they're certainly not ambiguous feeling and emotionally driven opinions riiiiiight?

    Now I want you to take notice, I never....I NEVER slate Ali based on who he didn't fight who wasn't around in his era. I NEVER do that. Ali could only fight who was in his era, which apparently you rate a great deal higher than any other era so I guess Ali was more LUCKY than good if what you're standing by what you're saying. Ali was more LUCKY to be in his era, where he could lose a few times and not have it impact his greatness, than say Joe Louis was in his era where he fought anyone and everyone but you didn't rate them so 25 in a row doesn't matter.
    Joe Frazier lost still considered top 10, Big George got beat still considered great, Liston falls outside because he was unlucky to have Ali in his era.

    Now you go.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Joe Frazier lost still considered top 10, Big George got beat still considered great, Liston falls outside because he was unlucky to have Ali in his era.

    Now you go.
    Now I go what?

    You already admit your rating system is based on LUCK. Joe Louis holds a real record, like Tyson for youngest heavyweight champ that's a real record it's quantifiable your admiration for Ali while understandable isn't quantifiable. You can't say "Ali is the greatest because of _____" it's just "Ali is the greatest." and that's it there's no because of this because of that it just IS and for no definable reason. And that my friend is the crux of this debate.

    25 up 25 down...a record.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Joe Frazier lost still considered top 10, Big George got beat still considered great, Liston falls outside because he was unlucky to have Ali in his era.

    Now you go.
    Now I go what?

    You already admit your rating system is based on LUCK. Joe Louis holds a real record, like Tyson for youngest heavyweight champ that's a real record it's quantifiable your admiration for Ali while understandable isn't quantifiable. You can't say "Ali is the greatest because of _____" it's just "Ali is the greatest." and that's it there's no because of this because of that it just IS and for no definable reason. And that my friend is the crux of this debate.

    25 up 25 down...a record.
    Again you are conveniently ignoring what I have written many many times.

    Ali is the best because he beat what most people regard as 3 great heavyweights in his career. So it is not the crux of it.

    Joe Louis, who did I mention got beat up and knocked out, went on a run of 25 defences and when I said name me someone on the list that would be regarded as a top 10 you talk about the depression and world war.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Again you are conveniently ignoring what I have written many many times.

    Ali is the best because he beat what most people regard as 3 great heavyweights in his career. So it is not the crux of it.

    Joe Louis, who did I mention got beat up and knocked out, went on a run of 25 defences and when I said name me someone on the list that would be regarded as a top 10 you talk about the depression and world war.
    Am I?

    OK so Ali is great because he beat 3 greats....what made those 3 so great?


    I mean I don't doubt they're great fighters I just want to know why they're considered great? What did they achieve which made them great? You know, besides the whole "most people say" baloney


    Are you saying the Depression and War didn't take out fighters? Braddock almost didn't make it due to the depression. And it ain't like a war where the entire world was involved would have any impact at all on men of professional boxing age or athletic ability....whether they were killed or lost their primes or were injured or damaged in some other way where they couldn't fight up to their potential...yeah not like that would have any impact at all on any sport but specifically boxing.


    Fucking hell man......ok I guess i just have to give up anything I personal think and just let you fill in the blanks for me. If that makes you feel better Master, you go ahead and tell me why Ali is the greatest and be sure to not quantify it, just use emotions and "people think" or "people feel" because that's better than the actual achievements in the ring.


    Ted Williams was the last guy to hit .400 ....oh but there are such better hitters today "Have any of them hit .400?" ....well no, but they're better because well people SAY and people THINK and people FEEL the pitching is better so the quantifiable numbers don't matter


    Unbelievable
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Stop having a hissy fit about this.

    Joe Louis had 25 defences in all those 25 defences I asked name me a top 10 heavyweight that people would regard is worthy.

    I have named 3.That is an amazing accomplishment, truly amazing and they were truly historic events.

    I said Joe Louis was an amazing champion and I didn't want to criticise him at all. He had 25 consecutive defences you know.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Go on @Master! Seeing a different side to you here. Great debating skills instead of the usual “10 year old boy” drivel!
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Stop having a hissy fit about this.

    Joe Louis had 25 defences in all those 25 defences I asked name me a top 10 heavyweight that people would regard is worthy.

    I have named 3.That is an amazing accomplishment, truly amazing and they were truly historic events.

    I said Joe Louis was an amazing champion and I didn't want to criticise him at all. He had 25 consecutive defences you know.
    Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Scmeling rematch

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Stop having a hissy fit about this.

    Joe Louis had 25 defences in all those 25 defences I asked name me a top 10 heavyweight that people would regard is worthy.

    I have named 3.That is an amazing accomplishment, truly amazing and they were truly historic events.

    I said Joe Louis was an amazing champion and I didn't want to criticise him at all. He had 25 consecutive defences you know.
    Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Scmeling rematch
    Max Schmeling was a solid opponent but is nowhere near a top 10 HW. Walcott is a little outside 10. Maybe around 15 or so. Charles probably the same. Although Charles is known by many as the greatest LHW of all time. But Louis lost to him.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    JJWalcott/Cincinnati Cobra was both TIED for #12 ATG.

    The Walcott Waltz was stole by Ali.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Stop having a hissy fit about this.

    Joe Louis had 25 defences in all those 25 defences I asked name me a top 10 heavyweight that people would regard is worthy.

    I have named 3.That is an amazing accomplishment, truly amazing and they were truly historic events.

    I said Joe Louis was an amazing champion and I didn't want to criticise him at all. He had 25 consecutive defences you know.
    Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Scmeling rematch
    Max Schmeling was a solid opponent but is nowhere near a top 10 HW. Walcott is a little outside 10. Maybe around 15 or so. Charles probably the same. Although Charles is known by many as the greatest LHW of all time. But Louis lost to him.
    I don't think these numbers really mean much. Unless fighters dight each other we just don't know. Ruiz better than Joshua? If they had never fought we would probably say no. All just opinions and guesses really. One reason why prime Ali against prime Tyson is so fun. We can only imagine.
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWNc_AZewu7AAERwCfLfupUZIJSbzqC MgjXFbc0u9YrZkuInoB

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Stop having a hissy fit about this.

    Joe Louis had 25 defences in all those 25 defences I asked name me a top 10 heavyweight that people would regard is worthy.

    I have named 3.That is an amazing accomplishment, truly amazing and they were truly historic events.

    I said Joe Louis was an amazing champion and I didn't want to criticise him at all. He had 25 consecutive defences you know.
    Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Scmeling rematch
    Max Schmeling was a solid opponent but is nowhere near a top 10 HW. Walcott is a little outside 10. Maybe around 15 or so. Charles probably the same. Although Charles is known by many as the greatest LHW of all time. But Louis lost to him.
    I don't think these numbers really mean much. Unless fighters dight each other we just don't know. Ruiz better than Joshua? If they had never fought we would probably say no. All just opinions and guesses really. One reason why prime Ali against prime Tyson is so fun. We can only imagine.
    True but they are educated guesses. You could also say that Max Schmeling is better than Ali and we would never know because there is no way of truly knowing, but nobody in their right mind would say that.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Max Schmeling is better than Ali.

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