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Thread: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Why is the name change an issue.

    A man has the right to change his name to whatever he wants to change it to. And if a man wants to be called Muhammad Ali, godammit this is a free country, you should respect his wishes, and call the man Muhammad Ali!
    I have no issue at all , I have given my opinions on who would beat him.
    I was just trying to get one of my favourite Coming to America quotes in to be fair
    Don't bully fat kids - they've got enough on their plate

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Why is the name change an issue.

    A man has the right to change his name to whatever he wants to change it to. And if a man wants to be called Muhammad Ali, godammit this is a free country, you should respect his wishes, and call the man Muhammad Ali!
    I have no issue at all , I have given my opinions on who would beat him.
    I was just trying to get one of my favourite Coming to America quotes in to be fair
    Fair play, that went right over my head. One of the funniest film sketches ever.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    I think prime Tyson is a much better fighter than prime Frazier. Tyson would land because he has the speed as well as the great upper body and head movement. He would be able to bust Ali up IMO. Foreman and Shavers hit hard, but Tyson did it from both hands and in combination. Quite overwhelming. I can see Ali on his bike all night, but having his own flurry moments. He couldn't stop Tyson as Tyson had a good chin.

    I maintain that Vitali would have been good as his size was something different. He would get hit, but he threw 80 punches a round and could punch. Ali would have issues with the range. Ali was more of a David Haye in terms of height and build. Wlad was technically better, but bad stamina and delicate. I always enjoyed Vitali. He just seemed like such a tough bastard. Shame about the Lewis fight as he was winning that too. Lewis was okay, but I find him overrated. Easily outboxed by Bruno, bad stoppage losses, and a bit robotic. I can see Ali doing well there as Lewis was not that out of range.
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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Great points espically about Ali could not stop Tyson.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I maintain that Vitali would have been good as his size was something different. He would get hit, but he threw 80 punches a round and could punch. Ali would have issues with the range. Ali was more of a David Haye in terms of height and build. Wlad was technically better, but bad stamina and delicate. I always enjoyed Vitali. He just seemed like such a tough bastard. Shame about the Lewis fight as he was winning that too. Lewis was okay, but I find him overrated. Easily outboxed by Bruno, bad stoppage losses, and a bit robotic. I can see Ali doing well there as Lewis was not that out of range.
    It is strange you call Lennox Lewis robotic when Vitali was far stiffer and slower. Sure Lennox had poor spells in fights but he generally came out on top. Wlad became a better champion than Vitali who was injury prone. If Ali was going to have trouble it would be to Wlad who was more fluid and had speed.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I maintain that Vitali would have been good as his size was something different. He would get hit, but he threw 80 punches a round and could punch. Ali would have issues with the range. Ali was more of a David Haye in terms of height and build. Wlad was technically better, but bad stamina and delicate. I always enjoyed Vitali. He just seemed like such a tough bastard. Shame about the Lewis fight as he was winning that too. Lewis was okay, but I find him overrated. Easily outboxed by Bruno, bad stoppage losses, and a bit robotic. I can see Ali doing well there as Lewis was not that out of range.
    It is strange you call Lennox Lewis robotic when Vitali was far stiffer and slower. Sure Lennox had poor spells in fights but he generally came out on top. Wlad became a better champion than Vitali who was injury prone. If Ali was going to have trouble it would be to Wlad who was more fluid and had speed.
    He had serious output for a HW though and would throw in combination. He knew that he did not need to worry so much about his chin. In a weird way he was a bit Calzaghe like in terms of letting his hands go. Lewis on the other hand had a chin that seemed to implode against lesser fighters. Even against an ancient Tyson he was doing the octopus routine all too often. I see him a bit like Wlad in that he had a good jab, but was fragile. A real great would cut him down. Vitali on the other hand was solid, knew how to use distance, and Ali really was quite small compared to him. Would have been one of his smaller opponents and in 1967 really a jumped up Cruiser Weight.
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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I maintain that Vitali would have been good as his size was something different. He would get hit, but he threw 80 punches a round and could punch. Ali would have issues with the range. Ali was more of a David Haye in terms of height and build. Wlad was technically better, but bad stamina and delicate. I always enjoyed Vitali. He just seemed like such a tough bastard. Shame about the Lewis fight as he was winning that too. Lewis was okay, but I find him overrated. Easily outboxed by Bruno, bad stoppage losses, and a bit robotic. I can see Ali doing well there as Lewis was not that out of range.
    It is strange you call Lennox Lewis robotic when Vitali was far stiffer and slower. Sure Lennox had poor spells in fights but he generally came out on top. Wlad became a better champion than Vitali who was injury prone. If Ali was going to have trouble it would be to Wlad who was more fluid and had speed.
    He had serious output for a HW though and would throw in combination. He knew that he did not need to worry so much about his chin. In a weird way he was a bit Calzaghe like in terms of letting his hands go. Lewis on the other hand had a chin that seemed to implode against lesser fighters. Even against an ancient Tyson he was doing the octopus routine all too often. I see him a bit like Wlad in that he had a good jab, but was fragile. A real great would cut him down. Vitali on the other hand was solid, knew how to use distance, and Ali really was quite small compared to him. Would have been one of his smaller opponents and in 1967 really a jumped up Cruiser Weight.
    You remember Vitali differently to how I did. I definitely did not see him having a punch output that was similar to Joe Calzaghe. Sturdy chin and almost impossible to knock out but slow and methodical in his boxing style.
    Last edited by Master; 10-15-2019 at 10:00 AM.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I maintain that Vitali would have been good as his size was something different. He would get hit, but he threw 80 punches a round and could punch. Ali would have issues with the range. Ali was more of a David Haye in terms of height and build. Wlad was technically better, but bad stamina and delicate. I always enjoyed Vitali. He just seemed like such a tough bastard. Shame about the Lewis fight as he was winning that too. Lewis was okay, but I find him overrated. Easily outboxed by Bruno, bad stoppage losses, and a bit robotic. I can see Ali doing well there as Lewis was not that out of range.
    It is strange you call Lennox Lewis robotic when Vitali was far stiffer and slower. Sure Lennox had poor spells in fights but he generally came out on top. Wlad became a better champion than Vitali who was injury prone. If Ali was going to have trouble it would be to Wlad who was more fluid and had speed.
    He had serious output for a HW though and would throw in combination. He knew that he did not need to worry so much about his chin. In a weird way he was a bit Calzaghe like in terms of letting his hands go. Lewis on the other hand had a chin that seemed to implode against lesser fighters. Even against an ancient Tyson he was doing the octopus routine all too often. I see him a bit like Wlad in that he had a good jab, but was fragile. A real great would cut him down. Vitali on the other hand was solid, knew how to use distance, and Ali really was quite small compared to him. Would have been one of his smaller opponents and in 1967 really a jumped up Cruiser Weight.
    You remember Vitali differently to how I did. I definitely did not see him having a punch output that was similar to Joe Calzaghe. Sturdy chin and almost impossible to knock out but slow and methodical in his boxing style.
    Hands down and throwing punches in bunches. That's Vitali. He kept them up when he needed to, but he systematically broke his opponents down. I always found him fun to watch unlike his brother. AJ is robotic, but Vitali had a motor and I always enjoy fighters who don't seem to be conserving. Vitali along with several others was outboxing Lewis too. He was up at the time of the stoppage, same with Bruno too. And then the weak knockouts. Was never that impressed with Lewis. He knew not to mess with Vitali again who was well up for another dustup.
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWNc_AZewu7AAERwCfLfupUZIJSbzqC MgjXFbc0u9YrZkuInoB

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I maintain that Vitali would have been good as his size was something different. He would get hit, but he threw 80 punches a round and could punch. Ali would have issues with the range. Ali was more of a David Haye in terms of height and build. Wlad was technically better, but bad stamina and delicate. I always enjoyed Vitali. He just seemed like such a tough bastard. Shame about the Lewis fight as he was winning that too. Lewis was okay, but I find him overrated. Easily outboxed by Bruno, bad stoppage losses, and a bit robotic. I can see Ali doing well there as Lewis was not that out of range.
    It is strange you call Lennox Lewis robotic when Vitali was far stiffer and slower. Sure Lennox had poor spells in fights but he generally came out on top. Wlad became a better champion than Vitali who was injury prone. If Ali was going to have trouble it would be to Wlad who was more fluid and had speed.
    He had serious output for a HW though and would throw in combination. He knew that he did not need to worry so much about his chin. In a weird way he was a bit Calzaghe like in terms of letting his hands go. Lewis on the other hand had a chin that seemed to implode against lesser fighters. Even against an ancient Tyson he was doing the octopus routine all too often. I see him a bit like Wlad in that he had a good jab, but was fragile. A real great would cut him down. Vitali on the other hand was solid, knew how to use distance, and Ali really was quite small compared to him. Would have been one of his smaller opponents and in 1967 really a jumped up Cruiser Weight.
    You remember Vitali differently to how I did. I definitely did not see him having a punch output that was similar to Joe Calzaghe. Sturdy chin and almost impossible to knock out but slow and methodical in his boxing style.
    Hands down and throwing punches in bunches. That's Vitali. He kept them up when he needed to, but he systematically broke his opponents down. I always found him fun to watch unlike his brother. AJ is robotic, but Vitali had a motor and I always enjoy fighters who don't seem to be conserving. Vitali along with several others was outboxing Lewis too. He was up at the time of the stoppage, same with Bruno too. And then the weak knockouts. Was never that impressed with Lewis. He knew not to mess with Vitali again who was well up for another dustup.
    Have to respectfully disagree with your view about Lennox Lewis and your “rose tinted” memories of Vitali. Lennox was behind against Vitali but was coming on strong and would have seriously injured that eye further. Bruno was doing well but every fighters knows that he will tire in the 2nd half of his fights.

    All his knock outs were avenged in impressive fashion. The only reason Lennox retired was because he knew when to call it a day that was his last fight. A lennox with some ambition left in his belly would have beaten Vitali far easier.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    A Lennox with a tad if self respect would have whipped himself into shape one last time at the tender age of 38 and erased that lingering, sour taste the whole world has that VITALI KICKED HIS ARSE and that THE CUT SAVED HIS ARSE.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Lennox knew he didn't have it any more and got out.

    Respect for doing so.
    Don't bully fat kids - they've got enough on their plate

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Ok with a gun to your head and you had to put every asset and last penny you had on a contest between Ali v each of the below in their prime where would it go....

    i) Tyson
    ii) Lewis
    iii) Holyfield 91
    iv) Louis
    v) Holmes
    vi) Bruno


    I'd go Ali every bout. I'd be nervous about some which would be closer but wouldn't be a tough decision to put it all on Ali
    Don't bully fat kids - they've got enough on their plate

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Ok with a gun to your head and you had to put every asset and last penny you had on a contest between Ali v each of the below in their prime where would it go....

    i) Tyson
    ii) Lewis
    iii) Holyfield 91
    iv) Louis
    v) Holmes
    vi) Bruno


    I'd go Ali every bout. I'd be nervous about some which would be closer but wouldn't be a tough decision to put it all on Ali
    Awsome question put like that! I'll go first!

    I) Tyson because Allie could not hold him behind the neck

    2) Ali

    3) Ali

    4) Ali

    5) Ali

    6) ali

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Have to respectfully disagree with your view about Lennox Lewis and your “rose tinted” memories of Vitali. Lennox was behind against Vitali but was coming on strong and would have seriously injured that eye further. Bruno was doing well but every fighters knows that he will tire in the 2nd half of his fights.

    All his knock outs were avenged in impressive fashion. The only reason Lennox retired was because he knew when to call it a day that was his last fight. A lennox with some ambition left in his belly would have beaten Vitali far easier.
    I don't want to step out of line here....I mean I know some opinions are carry more weight than others here.

    Lennox was quite talented, but he had a tendency to be a lazy ass at times. He wasn't lazy vs Vitali mind, but he was mighty lazy vs Bruno and likewise Rahman in the first fight. There were times when Lennox was really on his game and then there were times he seemed to half ass it he was just that good...vs Briggs for example, he was being a lazy ass until Briggs showed he wasn't playing and then lennox stepped it up. Some fighters are like that. When Lennox knew there was an imminent threat he was 100% tuned in vs Tua for example or Tyson (more he had a point to prove there, an exclamation mark on his legacy in his mind) and other times he needed a little wake up shot like Bruno and Briggs.

    The McCall revenge wasn't impressive it was sad. McCall had a nervous breakdown and Lennox STILL couldn't put him down....I think that probably still bothers Lennox as it's the "one that got away" probably like Vitali is bothered a bit by the cut which ended their fight "the one that got away"....it happens. Lennox probably wanted to put to bed the very thought/idea of McCall being on his level by just wrecking him....but he wasn't able to finish that job. However it probably propelled him in fights after that until the Rahman bout of course, but that one, whoa nelly did he avenge.


    Now would a 1967 Ali who fought the absolute WORLD BEATERS Zora Folley and Ernie Terrell....Ali was 6'3 211 mind you ....struggle vs a behemoth like Lennox or Vitali or Wlad or whomever?



    Well gee I'm sure they couldn't. It would be like punching God himself ....how could any of those guys lay 1 single glove on Ali when he was walking on water in training and hovering over the ring when he fought?
    Last edited by El Kabong; 10-15-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Ok with a gun to your head and you had to put every asset and last penny you had on a contest between Ali v each of the below in their prime where would it go....

    i) Tyson
    ii) Lewis
    iii) Holyfield 91
    iv) Louis
    v) Holmes
    vi) Bruno


    I'd go Ali every bout. I'd be nervous about some which would be closer but wouldn't be a tough decision to put it all on Ali
    Awsome question put like that! I'll go first!

    I) Tyson because Allie could not hold him behind the neck

    2) Ali

    3) Ali

    4) Ali

    5) Ali

    6) ali
    Bruno aside I think Tyson would be Ali's easiest night of that lot. He's have made a fool of him.

    Anyway all my money on Ali as said
    Don't bully fat kids - they've got enough on their plate

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