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Thread: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

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  1. #121
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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Well Tito, fans have made it clear ducking Wilder will not just be allowed but come with praise. So don’t be too optimistic that we get the fights.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Well Tito, fans have made it clear ducking Wilder will not just be allowed but come with praise. So don’t be too optimistic that we get the fights.
    Well Wilder and Fury are basically for sure going to fight again. If Wilder does win, there can be nobody in their right mind that could logically say it’s alright to avoid Wilder. So we will have to wait and see.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    I miss Holyfield. Guys today built like Winnie The Pooh or with less basics boxing than a Amazon warehouse are riding with all the glory.
    Unfortunately we don’t have guys like that in the division. That is Wilder’s kryptonite. Someone who has boxing ability that has a good chin and heart. Fortunately for Wilder, he hasn’t run into that yet (other than arguably Fury).
    Imagine a prime Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall, they beat Wilder 10 out of 10. David Tua smokes him. Vitali murders him. There's literally a dozen solid heavyweights of the past 20 years who would beat him.

    He's been "gifted" with one special attribute and been expertly "guided" to this position.
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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I feel bad for Ortiz though. He did all the work and got a bit sloppy. When you have won half the fight, you can be sneaky and kill a little time here and there. He didn't need to put himself in that position, but easier said than done in the hear of the moment. Could have taken a walk, but took a little nap.

    Makes me think Tyson Fury gets it done better next time. Wilder has no intention of trying to win rounds anymore.
    i think a lot of guys dont see wilder's right hand. because fury was moving, wilder had to hop in to hit him with a right hand, and he never got to just comfortably time it like he did with ortiz, and so many of the other guys he fought. if wilder is only thinking about getting his timing to be right, and unlike everybody else, actually boxing, then that means he eventually is going to find it if you let him. in other words, he can lose all the rounds but if he was never forced out of his pace, the thing that really mattered, then it means in that whole time he was being allowed to comfortably figure out his timing, and, since that is the only thing he is thinking about, eventually find it.

    ortiz won all those rounds but he never forced wilder out of his pace so wilder had all that time to find the only thing he was looking for and he found it.

    what made fury hard to fight was he never stayed in front of wilder. so if wilder wanted to land a right hand he had to close distance first before he could throw one. thats why he missed so many right hands. that little hop in that he had to do to close the distance to land his right hand is what tipped fury off. since its the only punch wilder throws, its the only punch fury has to think about, and, most importantly to my mind, if he does get hit, he knew it was coming. he in a way "sees" it, if that makes sense. thats why he got up and ortiz didnt. ortiz never saw it because he never knew it was already coming.

    and thats what wilder's power is. if you can take that away you can take the power away.
    Last edited by Yuzo; 11-24-2019 at 09:03 AM.

  5. #125
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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I feel bad for Ortiz though. He did all the work and got a bit sloppy. When you have won half the fight, you can be sneaky and kill a little time here and there. He didn't need to put himself in that position, but easier said than done in the hear of the moment. Could have taken a walk, but took a little nap.

    Makes me think Tyson Fury gets it done better next time. Wilder has no intention of trying to win rounds anymore.
    i think a lot of guys dont see wilder's right hand. because fury was moving, wilder had to hop in to hit him with a right hand, and he never got to just comfortably time it like he did with ortiz, and so many of the other guys he fought. if wilder is only thinking about getting his timing to be right, and unlike everybody else, actually boxing, then that means he eventually is going to find it if you let him. in other words, he can lose all the rounds but if he was never forced out of his pace, the thing that really mattered, then it means in that whole time he was being allowed to comfortably figure out his timing, and, since that is the only thing he is thinking about, eventually find it.

    ortiz won all those rounds but he never forced wilder out of his pace so wilder had all that time to find the only thing he was looking for and he found it.

    what made fury hard to fight was he never stayed in front of wilder. so if wilder wanted to land a right hand he had to close distance first before he could throw one. thats why he missed so many right hands. that little hop in that he had to do to close the distance to land his right hand is what tipped fury off. since its the only punch wilder throws, its the only punch fury has to think about, and, most importantly to my mind, if he does get hit, he knew it was coming. he in a way "sees" it, if that makes sense. thats why he got up and ortiz didnt. ortiz never saw it because he never knew it was already coming.

    and thats what wilder's power is. if you can take that away you can take the power away.
    Good post. I like Wilder a lot, but I think it is dangerous to rely on a single knock out punch. Maybe having been in with Ortiz he felt he could turn it on when he needed to. I don't know. With Fury it will be harder as Wilder will have to stalk and Fury knows he can bore his way into taking all of the rounds, but will Wilder be able to time and stop him? After this I have a hard time seeing Wilder winning many rounds unless those are rounds where he inflicts hurt. I thought maybe the first fight might have been an off night, but it is now a habit for Wilder not to win many rounds. Quite strange. I am not sure a knock out will come against Fury who isn't stupid and knows he can outbox Wilder, knows the power, and has range and height that is hard to train for. It is an intriguing fight.
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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Wilder needs to stay away from Usyk.
    They live, We sleep

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Fury will school him all night but wilder will have 2-3 chances to land his bomb which could win it for him.

    Will be nervy stuff for us Fury fans.

    February too soon? Not sure how that cut is doing.
    Don't bully fat kids - they've got enough on their plate

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Good post. I like Wilder a lot, but I think it is dangerous to rely on a single knock out punch. Maybe having been in with Ortiz he felt he could turn it on when he needed to. I don't know. With Fury it will be harder as Wilder will have to stalk and Fury knows he can bore his way into taking all of the rounds, but will Wilder be able to time and stop him? After this I have a hard time seeing Wilder winning many rounds unless those are rounds where he inflicts hurt. I thought maybe the first fight might have been an off night, but it is now a habit for Wilder not to win many rounds. Quite strange. I am not sure a knock out will come against Fury who isn't stupid and knows he can outbox Wilder, knows the power, and has range and height that is hard to train for. It is an intriguing fight.
    you know i think with ortiz he always will have this guy that is just going to stand in front of him. that is a guy that is always going to be hanging out on the end of a right hand. fury moved and stayed just outside of a right hand, so wilder has to close that gap and its a lot more predictable when you have all that space to see it coming.

    i think the problem that fury had in that fight was that he kept ducking the right hand. the danger of ducking the right hand is that if he throws the right hand where your head will be, not where it was, you duck into it and you get hit.



    if fury didnt get hit by that he wins that fight pretty easy. that is something that can be fixed. i do not know if he will fix it.
    Last edited by Yuzo; 11-24-2019 at 10:21 AM.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    I miss Holyfield. Guys today built like Winnie The Pooh or with less basics boxing than a Amazon warehouse are riding with all the glory.
    Unfortunately we don’t have guys like that in the division. That is Wilder’s kryptonite. Someone who has boxing ability that has a good chin and heart. Fortunately for Wilder, he hasn’t run into that yet (other than arguably Fury).
    Imagine a prime Ray Mercer or Oliver McCall, they beat Wilder 10 out of 10. David Tua smokes him. Vitali murders him. There's literally a dozen solid heavyweights of the past 20 years who would beat him.

    He's been "gifted" with one special attribute and been expertly "guided" to this position.
    That’s funny because Mercer and McCall were the two main fighters I was thinking of too. Mainly because I understand that he isn’t near a top 10 HW of all time so it’s a joke to compare him with an elite fighter.

    It just seems crazy that he hasn’t fought one fighter that has a granite chin or someone who is a come forward fighter. I’m not saying that he would lose to any current fighters (although I’m sure that he will definitely run into someone who will spark him eventually), but he has never been tested with real pressure. His biggest tests were all against boxers.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Wilder needs to stay away from Usyk.
    I thought the same thing last night. Usyk would not get careless and is much better than Ortiz. Wilder would have a much harder time landing clean on Usyk than anybody he has ever fought. Usyk would be far and away the best boxer he has ever faced and we see the trouble that boxers give to Wilder.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    It just seems crazy that he hasn’t fought one fighter that has a granite chin or someone who is a come forward fighter. I’m not saying that he would lose to any current fighters (although I’m sure that he will definitely run into someone who will spark him eventually), but he has never been tested with real pressure. His biggest tests were all against boxers.
    what do you think about adam kownacki?

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Good post. I like Wilder a lot, but I think it is dangerous to rely on a single knock out punch. Maybe having been in with Ortiz he felt he could turn it on when he needed to. I don't know. With Fury it will be harder as Wilder will have to stalk and Fury knows he can bore his way into taking all of the rounds, but will Wilder be able to time and stop him? After this I have a hard time seeing Wilder winning many rounds unless those are rounds where he inflicts hurt. I thought maybe the first fight might have been an off night, but it is now a habit for Wilder not to win many rounds. Quite strange. I am not sure a knock out will come against Fury who isn't stupid and knows he can outbox Wilder, knows the power, and has range and height that is hard to train for. It is an intriguing fight.
    you know i think with ortiz he always will have this guy that is just going to stand in front of him. that is a guy that is always going to be hanging out on the end of a right hand. fury moved and stayed just outside of a right hand, so wilder has to close that gap and its a lot more predictable when you have all that space to see it coming.

    i think the problem that fury had in that fight was that he kept ducking the right hand. the danger of ducking the right hand is that if he throws the right hand where your head will be, not where it was, you duck into it and you get hit.



    if fury didnt get hit by that he wins that fight pretty easy. that is something that can be fixed. i do not know if he will fix it.
    At the same time, the adjustment from overshooting is easier than taking a person that instinctively ducks right and make them stop that.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    At the same time, the adjustment from overshooting is easier than taking a person that instinctively ducks right and make them stop that.
    i think i know what you mean. youre right, and if you just slowed down, so that at the top of your jab you give yourself a little more time to see what he does before throwing your right hand you let yourself make a better decision.



    the other way to throw a right hand here is to let him drop under your jab and scoop him back up with the uppercut.



    but if you just slow yourself down a little you start to see stuff like that. everybody wants to speed up. nobody wants to slow down.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    True. And you can feint to get the guy to move right, before you throw. But that’s asking a lot of a guy as limited as Wilder. But in the post fight press conference he was talking about overshooting so he knew the necessary adjustment. Making the necessary adjustment is a hole different ball of wax.

    I think he simply meant he was stepping in too aggressively and covering too much distance.

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    Default Re: KING VS KONG - Wilder vs Ortiz 2

    On a side note, I wonder if that mouthpiece knocked out by Big George actually cleared the top rope. It definitely cleared the referee.

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