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Thread: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    He gets "flak" from serious boxing nerds because he's the self-anointed greatest ever and his modern fanbase, who are gassed by viral clips of knockouts, have no idea how weak is resume is or how strong past greats were. Whether or not someone likes/hates him is irrelevant, anyone who thinks he's currently a "great" is clueless and anyone who thinks he's toilet is clueless.

    The facts are - He's literally beat ONE man who could've been a possible top 10 contender in previous eras - Ortiz. A man who in this modern era of multi titles not only failed to capture a title but hasn't defeated a single former titlist.

    It's not "hate" to compare him with former fighters and it says nothing about Fury or Joshua to speculate who would have beat him. If anyone thinks Wilder could have knocked out Oliver McCall you DKSAB and that's a fact. So therefore he has to win on points, which takes skill, something Wilder abundantly lacks, hence losing the majority of rounds against his two credible opponents.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Let's not forget he already lost to a big fat not ready for primetime Fury. It's only because the heavyweight division is so poor that he's champ and he's such an unappealing character that that annoys the hell out of a lot of people too. There's an awful lot not to like about him as a person and about his boxing skills. But he does have that right hand. Keep knocking people out and it quiets the arguments to a large extent. Anybody with decent skills who can stay out of the way of the right hand for twelve rounds can beat him easily. It's going to happen at some point. Could be Fury, could be Usyk, could be some replacement scrub who comes in at short notice and has the night of his life. Somebody is going to make him look stupid at some point.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Just a general question, mind you. Not singling anybody out... just a general observation. I'm also not claiming Wilder's the second coming of Muhammad Ali or anything of the sort. I thought I'd throw those disclaimers out there before the hounds are let loose.

    Some theories come to mind.

    a) His lack of boxing skills.

    Wilder got a relative late start in boxing. Probably missed some of the traditional coaching afforded to fighters that start off as teenagers and have been in boxing all their lives. So he's predictably raw. Still learning... but raw. When he gets excited by hurting the opponent, he still gets wild and throws windmill punches which look ugly as hell. On the plus side, he's very athletic, which surely helps him overcome some of those boxing skill liabilities.

    b) His early record of bums.

    To be clear, I was one of the most outspoken critics of this from the very beginning. My patience was wearing a bit thin in that regard. But he's rectified that. To continue hanging that albatross around his neck when he's been fighting worthy competition for a while now... is a bit unfair. I know I do that too with a certain other fighter.... ...... but that's just because I can't stand him.

    c) The nonsense he says and how he acts.

    It's true... the whole "body on his record" nonsense pretty turned everybody off, myself included. I'm sure a lot of the other stuff he says rubs some people the wrong way. But he's basically an exuberant fighter, trying to cope with and enjoy his rising fame in the best way. Last night I saw him speaking after the fight, and he comported himself quite decently. So I'm willing to cut him some slack.

    d) He'd "get his ass kicked by champions from other generations."

    Yeah, ok. So what does that mean for the Joshuas and Furys of the current crop? That they'd somehow fare better? C'mon...... That just sounds like hate to me. Fury's a light hitting heavy, gifted with extreme height and reach, good boxing skills, but fully capable of horribly nauseating fights, like the one where he beat Klitschko. He's also fought two barely live bodies after Wilder, something Deontay would be burned at the stake for. He trash talks a lot better than any heavy of today, so people love him. Joshua is a nice enough fellow... but his flaws were totally exposed by the rotund Ruiz. So you can't single Wilder out and say he'd be crushed by the old crop of heavies, while leaving out the others.

    e) He only has the right hand and nothing else.

    Well... lately that's all he's needed. But like I said, he's still learning and given his late start, I feel he's made some pretty good progress. Some here felt that Fury was shutting him out prior to his knockdowns and that's all fine and good, since opinions are a dime a dozen among boxing fans. I personally thought he was holding his own, and the decision could've gone either way. The rematch by all rights should have occurred immediately.... and it wasn't Wilder that blinked..... for whatever reason. Still not holding my breath that the rematch will actually take place.

    f) First time he's in serious trouble he'll fold like a lawn chair.

    Yeah, I thought like that too. But King Kong Ortiz had him in a heap of trouble in their first fight. Wilder, he of the non-existent boxing skills..... managed to get out of the round and eventually won by knockout. Again..... another learning experience.



    I'm not a diehard Wilder fan... I'm just trying to level the playing field here. I'm actually a diehard boxing fan who's grateful that the division is back from its mind-numbingly boring years during the reign of Wlad.
    Everything except B and F. The guy’s a prick, end of.
    And I Don’t buy the point about him fighting Fury is like Crawford fighting a Cruiserweight. Meaningless nonsense!
    So what about Haye fighting Valuev?
    Math is meaningless. The most Primo comment ever. So good I want to injected it directly into my veins.

    Math bad, opinion good ug ug haha
    Listen Shag , nobody said “Math” is meaningless, your fucking theory is meaningless . I notice you never answered when I said what about Haye v Valuev? Fucking inject that direct into your veins.
    Same old story from Ronnie Baby! Probably won’t answer , skulk off for a week and then come back at me on another thread thinking everything is forgotten.
    Bit like when I asked you what I said wrong on your “Russian states” bollocks? Total silence!
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    I'll enjoy the Wilder ride while it lasts. I actually think he knocks out Fury in a rematch. I still think Usyk causes him all kinds of issues.
    They live, We sleep

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Boxing is unique and peculiar among sports in the following way:

    Wilder knocks out Luis Ortiz in two of his last four fights, and continues to get all sorts of hate.

    Fury beats "Tom and Otto" after facing Wilder (and "Sefer and Francesco" before facing Wilder), and continues to have fans fawn all over him.

    Go figure.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    I guess the question is who on this board thinks that Wilder is an elite fighter? I don’t think that anybody does. I know a lot of casuals do because they don’t really watch boxing, but saying that Wilder isn’t that skilled and would lose to HWs of the past is just preaching to the choir here. Nobody here believes that he is some sort of ATG fighter.

    So putting aside what others say about him, what is everyone’s opinion on him? I think that we would all come up with about the same idea. The difference is if we think he beats or loses to Fury or AJ/Ruiz

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    I think most of it comes down to his personality, or at least the way he presents it. Of course he lacks skills, but if he were an entirely different character and was honest about that, most people who bash him would probably cheer him on. Suppose for a second he had a Glen Johnson kind of attitude/way of speaking about himself. The fact is his flaws don't make him bad to watch. It's going to be must see viewing any time he fights a top opponent because you just never know if/when he'll land that eraser. For my money he also has gotten a lot better at delivering it. You look at his last few KOs or the knockdowns against Fury, and as much as he was shown up for long stretches of the fights, when he does land there is nothing wild or amateurish about it. Bringing up Oliver McCall, Mercer, Tua etc are extreme examples and of course would be real bad match ups for him, but surely it's to his credit you have to dig up guys that he wouldn't have every chance of flattening? Look how people still talk about Earnie Shavers, who only had a right hand, wasn't any more sound technically than Wilder and to boot couldn't really take a punch.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    I think most of it comes down to his personality, or at least the way he presents it. Of course he lacks skills, but if he were an entirely different character and was honest about that, most people who bash him would probably cheer him on. Suppose for a second he had a Glen Johnson kind of attitude/way of speaking about himself. The fact is his flaws don't make him bad to watch. It's going to be must see viewing any time he fights a top opponent because you just never know if/when he'll land that eraser. For my money he also has gotten a lot better at delivering it. You look at his last few KOs or the knockdowns against Fury, and as much as he was shown up for long stretches of the fights, when he does land there is nothing wild or amateurish about it. Bringing up Oliver McCall, Mercer, Tua etc are extreme examples and of course would be real bad match ups for him, but surely it's to his credit you have to dig up guys that he wouldn't have every chance of flattening? Look how people still talk about Earnie Shavers, who only had a right hand, wasn't any more sound technically than Wilder and to boot couldn't really take a punch.
    But people only talk about Shavers because of his power and not his greatness. It’s more than likely that Shavers could do the same thing that Wilder is doing now in the current division and people would be clamoring about his power and dominance too.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    I think Ortiz or Fury would have beat the shit out of or stopped Shavers myself, but that wasn't my point. Not saying Wilder is a great, only that the reason people dont like him is because they don't personally. In the ring he is good to watch and his power is fun. He'll be talked about, especially if he keeps going and adds a few more displays of power at a high level.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    he finds that sweet spot. however flawed he is, he gets it done. when the time comes and someone avoids that power, it'll be an embarrasing defeat
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    he finds that sweet spot. however flawed he is, he gets it done. when the time comes and someone avoids that power, it'll be an embarrasing defeat
    Tyson won 10 rounds against Wilder, he only lost the rounds he got knocked down and still did not get the decision. That was a ring rusty contender, this time he will comprehensively out box and befuddle Wilder. Fury has shown he can take his right hand and get up.

    There is nothing stopping Fury and provided he does not get careless he will beat Wilder. If Fury could punch harder he would stop Wilder so he will settle for the comprehensive UD.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    "He has only got a right hand, can't really hit with his left at all, came to boxing late, little amateur grounding, laughably clumsy, no skills. Carefully managed against bums on the way up. Heavyweight division is so weak, he can defend against people who wouldn't even be contenders usually"

    No, not Wilder ...... that's what they were saying about Rocky Marciano during his reign
    If God wanted us to be vegetarians, why are animals made of meat ?

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
    "He has only got a right hand, can't really hit with his left at all, came to boxing late, little amateur grounding, laughably clumsy, no skills. Carefully managed against bums on the way up. Heavyweight division is so weak, he can defend against people who wouldn't even be contenders usually"

    No, not Wilder ...... that's what they were saying about Rocky Marciano during his reign
    I actually think that Marciano is overrated. He’s another one of those anomalies. He was hardly a HW and his top wins were all against former light HWs (Charles, Walcott, and Moore).

    Although Marciano did learn to throw his left better later in his career. He also had intangibles that Wilder doesn’t have. Both have great right hands, but Marciano had a granite chin and his toughness brought him to the top as much as his right hand did. I think that if Wilder showed the chin and toughness as Marciano, we would all be more willing to anoint him an elite fighter.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
    "He has only got a right hand, can't really hit with his left at all, came to boxing late, little amateur grounding, laughably clumsy, no skills. Carefully managed against bums on the way up. Heavyweight division is so weak, he can defend against people who wouldn't even be contenders usually"

    No, not Wilder ...... that's what they were saying about Rocky Marciano during his reign
    I actually think that Marciano is overrated. He’s another one of those anomalies. He was hardly a HW and his top wins were all against former light HWs (Charles, Walcott, and Moore).

    Although Marciano did learn to throw his left better later in his career. He also had intangibles that Wilder doesn’t have. Both have great right hands, but Marciano had a granite chin and his toughness brought him to the top as much as his right hand did. I think that if Wilder showed the chin and toughness as Marciano, we would all be more willing to anoint him an elite fighter.
    @Fatboxingfan , do you have anything to say about that statement mon ami? because I know how much like you the Rocky Marciano pugilist!
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Why does Wilder continue to get so much flak?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
    "He has only got a right hand, can't really hit with his left at all, came to boxing late, little amateur grounding, laughably clumsy, no skills. Carefully managed against bums on the way up. Heavyweight division is so weak, he can defend against people who wouldn't even be contenders usually"

    No, not Wilder ...... that's what they were saying about Rocky Marciano during his reign
    I actually think that Marciano is overrated. He’s another one of those anomalies. He was hardly a HW and his top wins were all against former light HWs (Charles, Walcott, and Moore).

    Although Marciano did learn to throw his left better later in his career. He also had intangibles that Wilder doesn’t have. Both have great right hands, but Marciano had a granite chin and his toughness brought him to the top as much as his right hand did. I think that if Wilder showed the chin and toughness as Marciano, we would all be more willing to anoint him an elite fighter.
    @Fatboxingfan , do you have anything to say about that statement mon ami? because I know how much like you the Rocky Marciano pugilist!
    I got a feeling Fatboxingfan hates Rocky and thinks he was over rated.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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