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Thread: New trainer for Wilder?

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Ben Davison

    The mind is a funny old place. On one hand you've got Wilder thinking I clobbered him once I can do it again. One the other you've got Fury thinking he clobbered me the best that he can and it wasn't enough. I'm steamrollering this prick next time. That great moment built two entirely different pictures in two minds and it played a huge psychological part in proceedings this time around. As soon as Tyson started being more aggressive and pushing Wilder around the game was almost up. Yeah the cannon is still there but once the legs started going that was all but redundant and Wilder was up shit creek and his only paddle had a fucking great hole through the middle of it.

    Wilder has never shown any signs of improvement or change. He gets beaten with that stick constantly, might be a bit unfair, former World title holder, 40 odd and 1.....and 1. It is a fair point though. At no point has there ever been any evidence that he's evolving. His movement is still the same, he still runs in with the right hand most of the time. Has someone been trying to work with him on development? I've always thought the answer to that question must have been yes, but Wilder simply isn't receptive to it, doesn't know how to change, or doesn't want to. Now I'm not so sure.

    His corner seemed completely inept. There was no real (that I could hear granted) dialogue in the corner, nothing very instructive. He was clearly fucked long before the towel actually came in. When he asked why it was stopped and Breland told him his ear was fucked, I'm sure everyone thought it has been for several rounds for Christs sake. The post fight commentary also leads me to believe that they had that one trick in the locker and that was all that was needed and when it malfunctioned, they were collectively screwed. Unfortunately for Wilder he was the one paying the physical toll for it. He got laid bare. It was a leg, it was the weight of the costume, it was his ear, it shouldn't have been stopped, no one knew it was going to be stopped. It's a joke that these things were coming out of mouths from a 'team'.

    Like anyone else I don't think Wilder will change. But that's no reason why he shouldn't try. He just needs someone who can educate him properly. Someone to say right, we're going to learn this one thing, or we're going to add a bit of culture to that right hand. Can you imagine Manny Steward salivating at the prospect of refining that thing.

    Manny Pacquiao learned that he's got two arms. He also learned that blocking punches with your face isn't best practice. Will Wilder learn, not sure. I'm sure that the people he took into battle with him against Fury are not the ones to teach him.

    Tough guy, no quit, good chin, bazooka right hand. Trainers should be queuing up for a piece of that.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    A new trainer must make some difference..so we have Roach..who else?
    I would go with Roach and a few familiar long timers for familiar voices.

    The knockdown happened, but when Wilder was flopping around again quickly, something was wrong there. His legs looked to be dragging in a peculiar fashion meaning that he had no coordination and with the ear gushing, Fury knew he could toy with him then.

    People writing off Wilder forget that Fury himself looked shit against a journeyman a fight before. Wilder can and will do much better than that.

    I would like to see Roach sit down and talk to Wilder, watch footage, then develop strategies. He can come back.
    That’s a positive post.

    I agree..a few tweaks can happen.

    If Wilder KO Fury in the 1st round in the rematch..then what happens?!

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    A new trainer must make some difference..so we have Roach..who else?
    I would go with Roach and a few familiar long timers for familiar voices.

    The knockdown happened, but when Wilder was flopping around again quickly, something was wrong there. His legs looked to be dragging in a peculiar fashion meaning that he had no coordination and with the ear gushing, Fury knew he could toy with him then.

    People writing off Wilder forget that Fury himself looked shit against a journeyman a fight before. Wilder can and will do much better than that.

    I would like to see Roach sit down and talk to Wilder, watch footage, then develop strategies. He can come back.
    That’s a positive post.

    I agree..a few tweaks can happen.

    If Wilder KO Fury in the 1st round in the rematch..then what happens?!
    Memphis is right too. Manny was a demon fast one trick pony, but things can e worked on. Wilder needs to be brave and have someone tell him 'No, we will try this now'. That is what trainers do. Rumors are that Wilder has been calling the shots a long time. He doesn't have the boxing brain to do it alone. Most fighters do not. You need an extra pair of eyes to see what you do not.
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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Ben Davison

    The mind is a funny old place. On one hand you've got Wilder thinking I clobbered him once I can do it again. One the other you've got Fury thinking he clobbered me the best that he can and it wasn't enough. I'm steamrollering this prick next time. That great moment built two entirely different pictures in two minds and it played a huge psychological part in proceedings this time around. As soon as Tyson started being more aggressive and pushing Wilder around the game was almost up. Yeah the cannon is still there but once the legs started going that was all but redundant and Wilder was up shit creek and his only paddle had a fucking great hole through the middle of it.

    Wilder has never shown any signs of improvement or change. He gets beaten with that stick constantly, might be a bit unfair, former World title holder, 40 odd and 1.....and 1. It is a fair point though. At no point has there ever been any evidence that he's evolving. His movement is still the same, he still runs in with the right hand most of the time. Has someone been trying to work with him on development? I've always thought the answer to that question must have been yes, but Wilder simply isn't receptive to it, doesn't know how to change, or doesn't want to. Now I'm not so sure.

    His corner seemed completely inept. There was no real (that I could hear granted) dialogue in the corner, nothing very instructive. He was clearly fucked long before the towel actually came in. When he asked why it was stopped and Breland told him his ear was fucked, I'm sure everyone thought it has been for several rounds for Christs sake. The post fight commentary also leads me to believe that they had that one trick in the locker and that was all that was needed and when it malfunctioned, they were collectively screwed. Unfortunately for Wilder he was the one paying the physical toll for it. He got laid bare. It was a leg, it was the weight of the costume, it was his ear, it shouldn't have been stopped, no one knew it was going to be stopped. It's a joke that these things were coming out of mouths from a 'team'.

    Like anyone else I don't think Wilder will change. But that's no reason why he shouldn't try. He just needs someone who can educate him properly. Someone to say right, we're going to learn this one thing, or we're going to add a bit of culture to that right hand. Can you imagine Manny Steward salivating at the prospect of refining that thing.

    Manny Pacquiao learned that he's got two arms. He also learned that blocking punches with your face isn't best practice. Will Wilder learn, not sure. I'm sure that the people he took into battle with him against Fury are not the ones to teach him.

    Tough guy, no quit, good chin, bazooka right hand. Trainers should be queuing up for a piece of that.
    Agreed.

    Especially as he has a potential 3-4 years left in him (8-10 fights?)

    Jay deas mentioned he also did sparring with Wilder in one of the BT sports videos?..is Jay deas more of a cheerleader in the camp etc?

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    the kind of jab wilder throws is not the way that you have to throw the jab when you use the ring as he was being forced to. you have to press down on your front foot and in the same motion swing over your back foot. its all one smooth motion.



    believe it or not, when you throw that jab you are only standing on one foot: your front foot. when you jab this way it lets you glide very smoothly in perfect circular arcs around the ring since it has the same action in principle to the way that a compass works. why is this significant to wilder? this jab lets you side step the other fighter's jab.



    i know a lot of people say that boxing is now more advanced and that the training and fighters are better today. for all the advanced and modern training that wilder had no one ever thought to tell him how to throw a jab circling to your left. i think that would have helped. the reason some things from the past worked is because they always worked and always will work.
    Last edited by Yuzo; 02-26-2020 at 04:07 AM.

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Yuzo nailed it. Fundamentals. You cannot pretend that they do not matter, but Wilder seems to not want to listen to anybody who may have told him that he was missing some basics.
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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Syntax Error View Post
    I think that ship has sailed & sunk.

    Wilder is coming up 35, he isn't going to learn anything now.

    Wilder can still beat most people with his demonic power, but he's just not ever going to beat someone like Fury.
    I think it's strange that more people haven't mentioned that Wilder is 35 years old, how much more can he be expected to learn at this age?

    I understand that Manny changed his game late on but let's be honest he is a legend, we are talking about someone completely stripping Wilder back and teaching him the fundamentals, fuck sake if he has got to 35 years of age and people are still posting about him needing to be taught how to throw a jab it shows just how much he needs to learn and just how big the job would be.

    I'm not saying Wilder is a bum, far from it, even now with that right hand he has a chance against anyone but that is his only weapon and I can't see that changing any time soon.

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Wilder has never had to change anything because he only needs to be perfect for one moment everyone else in history - including Ali and Tyson - need to be perfect for 36 minutes. Nobody can get through 12 rounds with the hardest puncher in history (even though a fat, pony statue had already done exactly that).

    His trainers, team, hype boys, fellow fighters and clueless fans have been living by this mantra for years.

    And as much as I respect Memphis (someone here always worth reading) he should wash his mouth out for putting Manny in the same breath as Wilder. That one arm Manny looked like Naz compared to the atomic windmill. And prime Freddy Roach Manny would have ironed him out. Fact.
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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Manny blamed his socks one time. The parallels are there is all I'm saying
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    More than a new trainer, which I agree Wilder does need, maybe Wilder should take Big George up on his offer.

    https://www.boxingnews24.com/2020/02...-visiting-him/

    A lot of wisdom comes from experience. If anyone suffered a catastrophic first loss after being seen as virtually invincible, it was George Foreman.

    Wilder needs a little help getting his head straight after that comprehensive beating. Foreman can help with that.

    Will Deontay accept the offer? I doubt it. His damaged ego probably won't let him.

    But I think he'd benefit from it.

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Most of the guys that could have sorted him out and rewired him are gone.

    - Eddie Futch could train a variety of styles.
    - Manny Steward would have been an obvious choice considering his affinity long tall fighters. Fury already bagged what was left of Manny's legacy
    - Rich Giachetti, would have had a lot to teach Wilder, but I don't know if there would have been enough raw material to work with for him. Its not like Holmes.


    Roach would be good in the sense that He can probably teach wilder to set up that right better and land it from some different angles. The problem is I think Freddy would wear wilder out. Wilder couldn't stay on his toes for that long and still do everything he needs to work a jab, angles and circle instead of moving straight back. Wilder already wears himself out with bad form and big misses a lot of time.

    Ronnie Shields had some heavyweights (a few of wilders opponents arreola, szpilka- so hes already familiar with him) hanging with wilder till he got caught and has some good fighters (lara, rigo, etc) in his stable that wilder can glean things from. They have that southern life connection but Does he have enough time to concentrate on wilder though.

    Buddy mcgirt has been known for some good makeovers in a fighters twilight (gatti, Kovalev, etc) gets points alone for the midfight haircut he gave malignaggi.

    Joe Goosen always seemed to be good about keeping it simple and effective. Hes understood by his fighters and can rally them late in a fight.

    I'd probably look at the last two if I was making a decision. They seem to provide the biggest turnover in the shortest amount of time.
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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    AJ went away and learnt box to box after his 7 round hammering. Can wilder do the same?
    Unlikely when you consider AJ was more humble and willing to learn but so far all wilder has done is make excuses. In his mid 30s and total lack of fundamentals to work with I think he hopelessly swings away in the rematch looking desperately for power punches but taken out quicker

    no trainer can save him IMO so it doesn't matter who he chooses

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    A different trainer might not save him but for the next 2-3 years of his career there must be some improvement from the last Fury fight?!

    Fury changed trainer for 2 months and look what happened..I know Fury is a different type of fighter but if he had came in against wilder with the same “play it safe” display with Ben Davison who’s to say whether he would have won or not?

    Wilder MUST change his complete set up, trainer, conditioning and attack the trilogy fight in a completely different manner or it’s another easy loss.

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAME View Post
    AJ went away and learnt box to box after his 7 round hammering. Can wilder do the same?
    Unlikely when you consider AJ was more humble and willing to learn but so far all wilder has done is make excuses. In his mid 30s and total lack of fundamentals to work with I think he hopelessly swings away in the rematch looking desperately for power punches but taken out quicker

    no trainer can save him IMO so it doesn't matter who he chooses
    Perhaps he doesn’t need to box..perhaps he needs to fight smart..what trainers are the best at that?

    Everyone has been moaning about Wilders boxing for years..we know he’s the worst out of the 3..it’s too late to outbox Fury and AJ but can he fight smart?

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    Default Re: New trainer for Wilder?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    More than a new trainer, which I agree Wilder does need, maybe Wilder should take Big George up on his offer.

    https://www.boxingnews24.com/2020/02...-visiting-him/

    A lot of wisdom comes from experience. If anyone suffered a catastrophic first loss after being seen as virtually invincible, it was George Foreman.

    Wilder needs a little help getting his head straight after that comprehensive beating. Foreman can help with that.

    Will Deontay accept the offer? I doubt it. His damaged ego probably won't let him.

    But I think he'd benefit from it.


    Seems like Wilder is open to the idea.

    https://www.boxingnews24.com/2020/03...reman-to-talk/


    Good choice. His ego should be put aside and he should be willing to accept whatever positive feedback from anyone who can actually help him.

    I don't think Foreman should coach him.... but I think Foreman can help work with his head a little.

    Read something about Floyd, too. I'm not so sure that would be a good idea.

    Wilder is incapable of totally retooling..... and Floyd is too much of a loose cannon, IMO, to dedicate himself fully to the task of improving Wilder without injecting some of his own ego issues.


    For sure Wilder needs to make some serious adjustments and be willing to learn some new skills. But keep it real.

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