Boxing Forums


.



User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  1
Likes Likes:  18
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 61

Thread: Post your top ten heavyweights

Share/Bookmark
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,415
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    291
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Hunter's draw with Povetkin is stronger form than anything Ortiz has done. He's in his prime, just held his own with a former "champ" and perennial top 10 heavyweight and gave Uysk (P4Per) his most competitive fight to date (IMO).

    Ortiz best win - Jennings - has just been schooled by a prospect and prior to that ironed out by Rivas (10th). Ortiz fought him on the back of a loss. Ortiz best recent victory is over Hammer (a man Povetkin beat with ease who wouldn't rank in his top ten best wins). So whether we use recent form or backdated stuff Povetkin trumps Ortiz at every turn... unless, of course, we are crediting Ortiz for being Wilder's claim to fame (which is obvious).

    So lets play that game.

    Ortiz - best fighter faced = Wilder
    Povetkin - best fighter faced = Wlad/AJ
    Hunter - best fighter faced = Uysk (Povetkin at heavy)
    Jennings - best fighter faced = Wlad

    You see? We have a pattern forming here where Ortiz and Wilder are isolated whilst the others have all competed against first ballot HOF-ers and genuine champs.

    My argument isn't about "what could have been" or "should have been" it's purely about "what has happened." Fact. And guess what? If you disagree with my reasoning that's cool and the gang.
    I see Briedis as Usyk’s toughest fight.

    If we go back to 2015 (even that is generous for a current evaluation of ranking), we have Ortiz with wins over Jennings, Thompson, Scott and Hammer. Povetkin has Perez, Wach, Duhaupas, Hammer, Price and Hughie Fury. You could give Povetkin the slight edge there. Ortiz has suffered 2 losses to Wilder in that time and Povetkin has the loss to Joshua and the draw with Hunter (which I felt he lost). Most here would still rate Wilder highly in the division. So, for me the ‘loss’ to Hunter (who was more than likely outside most top 10s coming into the Povtkin fight) just keeps Ortiz above Povetkin. I'm not disagreeing with your thought process, just giving my own considerations.
    They live, We sleep

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    This Lunatic Asylum
    Posts
    23,185
    Mentioned
    417 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2865
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Good argument, it makes sense. I don't agree but it makes sense. If only everyone could stick to the debate instead of putting words in others mouths and inventing arguments never made. Unfortunately some here get a kick out of causing trouble and ruining threads, they have no real interest in debating boxing, just forum wars. Shame.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    This Lunatic Asylum
    Posts
    23,185
    Mentioned
    417 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2865
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Perez was "robbed" against Jennings... knocked unconscious in a round by Povetkin. The manner of victory is a factor in the way we rate careers, right?

    I haven't compared the "faded" Jennings with the "non faded" version. You have that impression because - @TitoFan - you've butted (Nobody "butted" into anything. Last I checked this was an open forum where we're all free to enter into any discussion. Particularly about boxing. But then again as a Mod, I'm sure you're aware of that. Feel free to tell me if the rules have changed.) into a discussion I was having with Powerpuncher, who is arguing Ortiz current form is superior to Povetkin's. You are bringing up points that strengthen my argument whilst weakening his. I was disproving your claim that Jennings should be above Hunter.

    I'm happy to debate any opinions but it needs to be kept in context because I have no interest in tantrums and tiaras.
    Nor do I.

    In fact, I have no interest in continuing our dialogue period.
    What a surprise. In future try to understand what is being debated before sticking your oar in. If you claim Jennings resume "runs rings" around Hunter's then provide some evidence/reasons. I would gladly have explored that debate.

    ((stick to boxing on the boxing board, there's plenty of other boards for you to have your flame wars. thanks))
    Last edited by Fenster; 03-21-2020 at 02:28 PM.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    22,069
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1702
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Perez was "robbed" against Jennings... knocked unconscious in a round by Povetkin. The manner of victory is a factor in the way we rate careers, right?

    I haven't compared the "faded" Jennings with the "non faded" version. You have that impression because - @TitoFan - you've butted (Nobody "butted" into anything. Last I checked this was an open forum where we're all free to enter into any discussion. Particularly about boxing. But then again as a Mod, I'm sure you're aware of that. Feel free to tell me if the rules have changed.) into a discussion I was having with Powerpuncher, who is arguing Ortiz current form is superior to Povetkin's. You are bringing up points that strengthen my argument whilst weakening his. I was disproving your claim that Jennings should be above Hunter.

    I'm happy to debate any opinions but it needs to be kept in context because I have no interest in tantrums and tiaras.
    Nor do I.

    In fact, I have no interest in continuing our dialogue period.
    What a surprise. In future try to understand what is being debated before sticking your oar in. If you claim Jennings resume "runs rings" around Hunter's then provide some evidence/reasons. I would gladly have explored that debate.

    ((stick to boxing on the boxing board, there's plenty of other boards for you to have your flame wars. thanks))
    Tantrums? Tiaras? Flame wars? Oh my! Someone got up a little cranky this morning.

    You would've gladly "explored that debate"? Me too. Would it have killed you to say that nicely?

    For the record, I seriously doubt you have any interest in debating anything with me.

    Tantrums, tiaras, and flame wars. Hmm... pray tell what about my previous post brought this on?

    "Butting in"? I was under the impression this was a public boxing board. I would think one can only "butt in" on a private conversation. But you tell me.

    By the way, I DID stick to boxing on the boxing board. My argument was all about boxing.

    Please show me one word I addressed to you here that was not about boxing.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by TitoFan; 03-22-2020 at 05:13 AM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    22,069
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1702
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    My post:


    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    And yet Jennings had just given Wlad a credible challenge the fight before Ortiz. So it's hardly fair to compare that Jennings to the one who has obviously faded and is on his way out, isn't it.

    Not to mention that Jennings was the one who handed Perez his first loss. The very same Perez you tout as one of Povetkin's best wins.

    The Povetkin win over Byrd was good, no doubt about that. But let's not forget that Byrd was two fights away from the end of his career and he was never truly a legitimate HW no matter how much some fans may have wished him to be. So you had a young, hungry prospect beating an old, overblown cruiser masquerading as a HW, while outweighing him by nearly 20 pounds and almost 10 years age difference.

    Byrd is just a name on Povetkin's resume.

    Again... I'm not arguing that Povetkin's resume isn't better than Ortiz's. Only that it's not the wide chasm you're making it out to be.

    But like you said.... we can obviously disagree.

    Civil... non-combative. All about boxing.



    Your response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Perez was "robbed" against Jennings... knocked unconscious in a round by Povetkin. The manner of victory is a factor in the way we rate careers, right?

    I haven't compared the "faded" Jennings with the "non faded" version. You have that impression because - @TitoFan - you've butted into a discussion I was having with Powerpuncher, who is arguing Ortiz current form is superior to Povetkin's. You are bringing up points that strengthen my argument whilst weakening his. I was disproving your claim that Jennings should be above Hunter.

    I'm happy to debate any opinions but it needs to be kept in context because I have no interest in tantrums and tiaras.

    Insulting, and provocative.

    Again.... show me where it says I can't enter a discussion about boxing in a boxing board.

    Also, show me where ANYTHING I SAID warranted your mention of tantrums, tiaras and flame wars.

    Thanks.

    @Spicoli
    @Master
    @Memphis
    @Andre


    I keep my dislike of you out of the boxing board. Can't you have the courtesy with everyone of doing the same?
    Last edited by TitoFan; 03-22-2020 at 01:22 AM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    5,003
    Mentioned
    83 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    546
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    this thread went gay.
    Bigger man George, bigger punch!

    Subscribe: Free online Classifieds and Business directory!
    Hidden Content

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    This Lunatic Asylum
    Posts
    23,185
    Mentioned
    417 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2865
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Just Titofan being Titofan. As I predicted he'd throw a tantrum and not make one boxing related argument, just rant and rave at me then cry for help whilst playing the victim. Rinse and repeat, same MO on every board. If he was really interested in boxing talk he'd have explained why Jennings "runs rings" around Hunter but no, he was obviously never interested in anything but hysterically ranting at Fenster.

    C'est la vie

    One more chance, sport?
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    58,075
    Mentioned
    1518 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2758
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    this thread went gay.
    Totally. Let's keep it to boxing only and nothing personal.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    This Lunatic Asylum
    Posts
    23,185
    Mentioned
    417 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    2865
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    this thread went gay.
    Totally. Let's keep it to boxing only and nothing personal.
    Precisely. Anymore posts aimed at me instead of the topic will be deleted.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    22,069
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1702
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    One more chance, sport?

    No thanks. I'll pass.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    9,397
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    549
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Hunter's draw with Povetkin is stronger form than anything Ortiz has done. He's in his prime, just held his own with a former "champ" and perennial top 10 heavyweight and gave Uysk (P4Per) his most competitive fight to date (IMO).

    Ortiz best win - Jennings - has just been schooled by a prospect and prior to that ironed out by Rivas (10th). Ortiz fought him on the back of a loss. Ortiz best recent victory is over Hammer (a man Povetkin beat with ease who wouldn't rank in his top ten best wins). So whether we use recent form or backdated stuff Povetkin trumps Ortiz at every turn... unless, of course, we are crediting Ortiz for being Wilder's claim to fame (which is obvious).

    So lets play that game.

    Ortiz - best fighter faced = Wilder
    Povetkin - best fighter faced = Wlad/AJ
    Hunter - best fighter faced = Uysk (Povetkin at heavy)
    Jennings - best fighter faced = Wlad

    You see? We have a pattern forming here where Ortiz and Wilder are isolated whilst the others have all competed against first ballot HOF-ers and genuine champs.

    My argument isn't about "what could have been" or "should have been" it's purely about "what has happened." Fact. And guess what? If you disagree with my reasoning that's cool and the gang.
    You are correct.

    I've followed the heavyweight division probably as closely as anyone during the past fifteen years (recall my heavyweight thread) and I agree with you.

    Luiz Ortiz has been very overrated. His resume is awful except for Jennings. He fought an opponent in his pro debut in his 18th pro fight. Tony Thompson was good in his late 30s, but he was a faded age 45 when he fought Ortiz. Monte Barrett was well over 40 and a full decade past his prime.

    Povetkin has fought much better opposition. He went the distance with a still-prime Klitschko. His only other loss, when he was himself past prime, was to Joshua. Both prime Klitschko and current Joshua are much better than Wilder, who twice stopped Ortiz.
    Last edited by Freedom; 03-22-2020 at 02:50 PM.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4,289
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    418
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Strange that Ortiz is so overrated yet nobody wanted to fight him. You would think with how highly touted he was, many HWs would have been lining up to beat him. I mean Whyte wouldn’t fight him even though he was a mandatory. That’s strange since Ortiz would be such an easy fight 🤔

  13. #43
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    22,069
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1702
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Luiz Ortiz has been very overrated. His resume is awful except for Jennings. He fought an opponent in his pro debut in his 18th pro fight. Tony Thompson was good in his late 30s, but he was a faded age 45 when he fought Ortiz. Monte Barrett was well over 40 and a full decade past his prime.

    Povetkin has fought much better opposition. He went the distance with a still-prime Klitschko. His only other loss, when he was himself past prime, was to Joshua. Both prime Klitschko and current Joshua are much better than Wilder, who twice stopped Ortiz.

    Nobody here disagrees that Povetkin's resume is superior to Ortiz's. But my question to you would be comparing Michael Hunter's resume versus Bryant Jennings, the former an opponent of Povetkin's and the latter an opponent of Ortiz. Jennings may be washed up and on his way out now, but when he fought Ortiz he was just off a UD loss to Wlad and a decision win over Mike Perez just before that. He entered the Wlad fight as the #2, 3, and 4 ranked (WBA, WBO, and IBF respectively) ranked heavyweight in the world. Hunter by contrast, had done absolute jack at heavy before his split decision draw vs Povetkin. Which is why I don't see using Jennings, Hunter, or Perez for that matter to advance arguments about Povetkin's resume vs Ortiz. Not even Byrd, who was just a washed up shell of himself when he faced the young, hungry Povetkin. What's your take on this................. Freedom?

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,415
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    291
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    I didn't really see much wrong with your earlier posts Tito, although there may have been some mis-communication. I think Fenster was trying to point out that Hunter has a better record at heavy than Jennings (correct me if I'm of base). If that is the case, then I agree, but there is not really much in it at this stage. Looking at Jenning's record only Dimitrenko, Perez and Szpilka are note worthy at best. Hunter has Bakole, Ustinov, Kuzmin and I thought he beat Povetkin, but a draw against a top 10 guy none the less, and he has only been at heavy for 2 years roughly. Jenning has been a career heavy for roughly 10 years.
    They live, We sleep

  15. #45
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    22,069
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1702
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Post your top ten heavyweights

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I didn't really see much wrong with your earlier posts Tito, although there may have been some mis-communication. I think Fenster was trying to point out that Hunter has a better record at heavy than Jennings (correct me if I'm of base). If that is the case, then I agree, but there is not really much in it at this stage. Looking at Jenning's record only Dimitrenko, Perez and Szpilka are note worthy at best. Hunter has Bakole, Ustinov, Kuzmin and I thought he beat Povetkin, but a draw against a top 10 guy none the less, and he has only been at heavy for 2 years roughly. Jenning has been a career heavy for roughly 10 years.

    I appreciate that, Alpha. Let's leave it at that, for obvious reasons... but thanks.

    About Jennings versus Hunter, I just think Jennings is the more impressive scalp between the two (comparing Povetkin and Ortiz opponents). Jennings was a seasoned fighter in what turned out to be his peak as a boxer. He had just gone 12 with Klitschko, and before that had handed Perez his first loss. It's easy to dismiss him now, and that's the problem with people trying to build cases for or against their favorite (or not) fighters. Not saying you do that, but many conveniently take fighters' careers out of historical context to advance their argument. Jennings is a has-been now, while Hunter is (to me) still unproven enough. Between Bakole, Ustinov and Kuzmin... Bakole is the one I'd rate the most, as Ustinov has turned out less than impressive and Kuzmin was a non-entity before facing Hunter. It's amazing how just 4-5 years ago people were singing Jennings praises as the new American hope... and now to some he was never worth anything. (Again... not you). It's all about context and convenience.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Top 10 Heavyweights
    By superheavyrhun in forum Boxing Talk
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-06-2016, 04:04 AM
  2. The Top 20 Heavyweights as of now
    By ludwig in forum Boxing Talk
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-24-2011, 01:09 AM
  3. Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era
    By Mithrandir in forum Boxing Talk
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 03-25-2009, 06:44 PM
  4. heavyweights
    By Julius Rain in forum Boxing Talk
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 01-23-2009, 03:44 PM
  5. Top 25 Heavyweights
    By El Gamo in forum Boxing Talk
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-06-2006, 10:36 PM

Bookmarks

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  





Boxing | Boxing Photos | Boxing News | Boxing Videos | Boxing Forum | Boxing Books | Boxing Posters | Learn to Box | Advanced Fighting Methods | Boxing Rankings | Boxing Schedule | Auctions | Fun and Games | Boxing Equipment

Copyright © 2000 - 2019 Saddo Boxing - Boxing