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Thread: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

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  1. #331
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    since you had the balls to sort of answer i'll go easy on you. i won't even bother with your eyes or how filtration works. so if you didn't do any research did you just you follow along like a brainless zombie? don't take that wrong. simple question. if you believe the masks work then why the need for social distancing?

    Eyes.... gotcha.

    Meh..... I don't believe my only two choices are 1) doing research or 2) follow along like a brainless zombie. But feel free to continue believing what you will.

    Somewhere in the middle there are educated guesses and common sense.

    But be that as it may..... here's the deal, and it may be the source of a lot of misunderstanding (and up to now, contention).

    No one is claiming that masks are the cure-all, solve-all panacea that will magically keep you from getting the virus.

    Only that, as common sense would dictate to some of us, the use of masks will protect you a bit better from the inadvertent sneeze or cough from the person next to you.... at least when compared to not wearing a mask.

    No big deal.... no black magic.... no need for all the contention masks have apparently caused.

    Why the need for social distancing if you're wearing a mask?

    Simple. Neither is the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus. But together... they decrease your chances of getting infected significantly.

    One's a barrier... the other is simply distancing.
    then your answer shouldn't be yes. but you had the balls to answer so respect to you. do you believe you can't catch this virus through your eyes? doing no research would mean you are ignorant. don't take that wrong. so why are they forcing & mandating that people wear masks if they are not the cure-all? common sense would suggest a sneeze or cough would not just hone in on a mask but would also reach your eyes. so if neither are the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus then why force masks & social distancing on us? either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks. you should learn how each type of mask & filtration works. n95. surgical. material. let me ask another question if i may. not just to you but anyone who thinks masks & gloves work. if your mask & are catching & stopping the virus shouldn't there be bio hazard bins everywhere to dispose of these highly contagious items?


    So "brainless zombie" and "ignorant." Ok... I'll be sure and not take any of those wrong.

    Let me correct you on something. Not doing research on something does not make you ignorant. "Research" is a word lightly thrown around by guys such as yourself and I've seen Miles (Gandalf) do it as well. It lessens the work of those who do "real" research to claim that everyone and their brother can do research. Don't take that wrong.

    In this case, research would require a bio lab and plenty of equipment most mortal humans don't have ready access to.

    Now... having driven that point home, I'll address the other questions. The eyes? Sure... it has been said as much. The eyes are a vulnerable point of entry for a virus. But let me say this. If you're on a boat with 4 or 5 holes in the hull, then it's a fair certainty your boat's gonna sink, right? Cool. If you patch up 3 or 4 of those holes..... and bail out some water to boot..... your boat may not be as good as new.... but you might not sink. Cool?

    We're not talking "either/or" here, nor are we talking "black/white." The world is not made up of strictly absolutes. There is gray... and there are subtleties in most everything in life. I know enough about masks to make my personal choices when I go out. THAT...... is enough for me.

    For you to say this............ "either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks" smacks of pure ignorance. Don't take that wrong.

    Back to the boat analogy. You're taking on water so you patch up holes and you bail water. Does bailing alone save you from sinking? Probably not. Does patching some of the holes? Probably not. Does doing both improve your chances of not sinking?
    I'd say yes.

    Bio hazard bins...... good point. There should be plenty of those available. If government and/or businesses are going to mandate the use of masks and gloves.... then enough bio hazard bins should be supplied to dispose of used ones.

    But people are people. You see people protect themselves with gloves and masks.... only to take them off and throw them in the street. Worse than animals.

    The use of gloves is another point of contention.

    I use masks as I see fit.... but have hardly ever, if at all, used gloves. Why? Gloves just carry contamination from one place to another. People are so clueless as to glove use.

    Besides, common sense measures such as hand sanitizer and the washing of hands is more than enough.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    But don't you know? He has a bio lab in his house.

  3. #333
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    since you had the balls to sort of answer i'll go easy on you. i won't even bother with your eyes or how filtration works. so if you didn't do any research did you just you follow along like a brainless zombie? don't take that wrong. simple question. if you believe the masks work then why the need for social distancing?

    Eyes.... gotcha.

    Meh..... I don't believe my only two choices are 1) doing research or 2) follow along like a brainless zombie. But feel free to continue believing what you will.

    Somewhere in the middle there are educated guesses and common sense.

    But be that as it may..... here's the deal, and it may be the source of a lot of misunderstanding (and up to now, contention).

    No one is claiming that masks are the cure-all, solve-all panacea that will magically keep you from getting the virus.

    Only that, as common sense would dictate to some of us, the use of masks will protect you a bit better from the inadvertent sneeze or cough from the person next to you.... at least when compared to not wearing a mask.

    No big deal.... no black magic.... no need for all the contention masks have apparently caused.

    Why the need for social distancing if you're wearing a mask?

    Simple. Neither is the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus. But together... they decrease your chances of getting infected significantly.

    One's a barrier... the other is simply distancing.
    then your answer shouldn't be yes. but you had the balls to answer so respect to you. do you believe you can't catch this virus through your eyes? doing no research would mean you are ignorant. don't take that wrong. so why are they forcing & mandating that people wear masks if they are not the cure-all? common sense would suggest a sneeze or cough would not just hone in on a mask but would also reach your eyes. so if neither are the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus then why force masks & social distancing on us? either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks. you should learn how each type of mask & filtration works. n95. surgical. material. let me ask another question if i may. not just to you but anyone who thinks masks & gloves work. if your mask & are catching & stopping the virus shouldn't there be bio hazard bins everywhere to dispose of these highly contagious items?


    So "brainless zombie" and "ignorant." Ok... I'll be sure and not take any of those wrong.

    Let me correct you on something. Not doing research on something does not make you ignorant. "Research" is a word lightly thrown around by guys such as yourself and I've seen Miles (Gandalf) do it as well. It lessens the work of those who do "real" research to claim that everyone and their brother can do research. Don't take that wrong.

    In this case, research would require a bio lab and plenty of equipment most mortal humans don't have ready access to.

    Now... having driven that point home, I'll address the other questions. The eyes? Sure... it has been said as much. The eyes are a vulnerable point of entry for a virus. But let me say this. If you're on a boat with 4 or 5 holes in the hull, then it's a fair certainty your boat's gonna sink, right? Cool. If you patch up 3 or 4 of those holes..... and bail out some water to boot..... your boat may not be as good as new.... but you might not sink. Cool?

    We're not talking "either/or" here, nor are we talking "black/white." The world is not made up of strictly absolutes. There is gray... and there are subtleties in most everything in life. I know enough about masks to make my personal choices when I go out. THAT...... is enough for me.

    For you to say this............ "either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks" smacks of pure ignorance. Don't take that wrong.

    Back to the boat analogy. You're taking on water so you patch up holes and you bail water. Does bailing alone save you from sinking? Probably not. Does patching some of the holes? Probably not. Does doing both improve your chances of not sinking?
    I'd say yes.

    Bio hazard bins...... good point. There should be plenty of those available. If government and/or businesses are going to mandate the use of masks and gloves.... then enough bio hazard bins should be supplied to dispose of used ones.

    But people are people. You see people protect themselves with gloves and masks.... only to take them off and throw them in the street. Worse than animals.

    The use of gloves is another point of contention.

    I use masks as I see fit.... but have hardly ever, if at all, used gloves. Why? Gloves just carry contamination from one place to another. People are so clueless as to glove use.

    Besides, common sense measures such as hand sanitizer and the washing of hands is more than enough.
    ignorant means lacking knowledge or awareness in general. research is an investigation in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions. in this case it doesn't require a bio lab. you could reference the independent research of places like osha regs & verify the info cited. because of your lack of knowledge about masks i must point out that masks don't act as a patch. if they worked like a patch to plug a hole completely then we wouldn't need social distancing would we. from your posts it is clear you have no knowledge of different masks & how their filtration works. if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks. if masks work why didn't they just give them to prisoners instead of releasing them? hmmm
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  4. #334
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    They have been very careful in schools here. Masks are worn, proper masks. There was still an outbreak. They only do so much. Outbreaks will keep happening even with masks.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    They have been very careful in schools here. Masks are worn, proper masks. There was still an outbreak. They only do so much. Outbreaks will keep happening even with masks.
    what would you call proper masks?
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  6. #336
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    since you had the balls to sort of answer i'll go easy on you. i won't even bother with your eyes or how filtration works. so if you didn't do any research did you just you follow along like a brainless zombie? don't take that wrong. simple question. if you believe the masks work then why the need for social distancing?

    Eyes.... gotcha.

    Meh..... I don't believe my only two choices are 1) doing research or 2) follow along like a brainless zombie. But feel free to continue believing what you will.

    Somewhere in the middle there are educated guesses and common sense.

    But be that as it may..... here's the deal, and it may be the source of a lot of misunderstanding (and up to now, contention).

    No one is claiming that masks are the cure-all, solve-all panacea that will magically keep you from getting the virus.

    Only that, as common sense would dictate to some of us, the use of masks will protect you a bit better from the inadvertent sneeze or cough from the person next to you.... at least when compared to not wearing a mask.

    No big deal.... no black magic.... no need for all the contention masks have apparently caused.

    Why the need for social distancing if you're wearing a mask?

    Simple. Neither is the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus. But together... they decrease your chances of getting infected significantly.

    One's a barrier... the other is simply distancing.
    then your answer shouldn't be yes. but you had the balls to answer so respect to you. do you believe you can't catch this virus through your eyes? doing no research would mean you are ignorant. don't take that wrong. so why are they forcing & mandating that people wear masks if they are not the cure-all? common sense would suggest a sneeze or cough would not just hone in on a mask but would also reach your eyes. so if neither are the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus then why force masks & social distancing on us? either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks. you should learn how each type of mask & filtration works. n95. surgical. material. let me ask another question if i may. not just to you but anyone who thinks masks & gloves work. if your mask & are catching & stopping the virus shouldn't there be bio hazard bins everywhere to dispose of these highly contagious items?


    So "brainless zombie" and "ignorant." Ok... I'll be sure and not take any of those wrong.

    Let me correct you on something. Not doing research on something does not make you ignorant. "Research" is a word lightly thrown around by guys such as yourself and I've seen Miles (Gandalf) do it as well. It lessens the work of those who do "real" research to claim that everyone and their brother can do research. Don't take that wrong.

    In this case, research would require a bio lab and plenty of equipment most mortal humans don't have ready access to.

    Now... having driven that point home, I'll address the other questions. The eyes? Sure... it has been said as much. The eyes are a vulnerable point of entry for a virus. But let me say this. If you're on a boat with 4 or 5 holes in the hull, then it's a fair certainty your boat's gonna sink, right? Cool. If you patch up 3 or 4 of those holes..... and bail out some water to boot..... your boat may not be as good as new.... but you might not sink. Cool?

    We're not talking "either/or" here, nor are we talking "black/white." The world is not made up of strictly absolutes. There is gray... and there are subtleties in most everything in life. I know enough about masks to make my personal choices when I go out. THAT...... is enough for me.

    For you to say this............ "either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks" smacks of pure ignorance. Don't take that wrong.

    Back to the boat analogy. You're taking on water so you patch up holes and you bail water. Does bailing alone save you from sinking? Probably not. Does patching some of the holes? Probably not. Does doing both improve your chances of not sinking?
    I'd say yes.

    Bio hazard bins...... good point. There should be plenty of those available. If government and/or businesses are going to mandate the use of masks and gloves.... then enough bio hazard bins should be supplied to dispose of used ones.

    But people are people. You see people protect themselves with gloves and masks.... only to take them off and throw them in the street. Worse than animals.

    The use of gloves is another point of contention.

    I use masks as I see fit.... but have hardly ever, if at all, used gloves. Why? Gloves just carry contamination from one place to another. People are so clueless as to glove use.

    Besides, common sense measures such as hand sanitizer and the washing of hands is more than enough.
    ignorant means lacking knowledge or awareness in general. research is an investigation in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions. in this case it doesn't require a bio lab. you could reference the independent research of places like osha regs & verify the info cited. because of your lack of knowledge about masks i must point out that masks don't act as a patch. if they worked like a patch to plug a hole completely then we wouldn't need social distancing would we. from your posts it is clear you have no knowledge of different masks & how their filtration works. if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks. if masks work why didn't they just give them to prisoners instead of releasing them? hmmm


    I suggest you work on your reading comprehension if you think you read that I think masks act as a patch. I will gladly get into a discussion of the filtration mechanism of masks with someone who comes into the conversation with a clear, unbiased mind about the topic in general and guess what...... you just don't tick that box. Don't take that the wrong way. If from the beginning you've been spouting one-liners about COVID being a hoax, it gives me little to no desire to discuss facemask filtration mechanics with you.

    Precisely because facemasks do not act as patches, is the reason why they must be combined with other measures such as social distancing. But we've been at this long enough to know that not everyone here is interested in having a frank, honest conversation about COVID and masks... haven't we.

    You persist on this: "if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks"

    If you want to hang on to that, knock yourself out.

    Maybe you missed the part where I told you neither is 100% effective, which is why people that truly know about this stuff (hint: there are none on this boxing forum) recommend using them both together. To minimize the probability of getting infected.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    They have been very careful in schools here. Masks are worn, proper masks. There was still an outbreak. They only do so much. Outbreaks will keep happening even with masks.
    what would you call proper masks?
    Basically the government issued masks that my wife seems to throw at me every now and then. I don't really pay much attention to them as I don't really use them much and there are no infections anywhere near me. Still all required in enclosed areas, but there is no infection in most cities of the country. It is just a few areas that keep having very sporadic clusters, but 10 cases in a city of 10 million? It is not that bad. You probably could wear the boxer short combo and be perfectly safe.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    since you had the balls to sort of answer i'll go easy on you. i won't even bother with your eyes or how filtration works. so if you didn't do any research did you just you follow along like a brainless zombie? don't take that wrong. simple question. if you believe the masks work then why the need for social distancing?

    Eyes.... gotcha.

    Meh..... I don't believe my only two choices are 1) doing research or 2) follow along like a brainless zombie. But feel free to continue believing what you will.

    Somewhere in the middle there are educated guesses and common sense.

    But be that as it may..... here's the deal, and it may be the source of a lot of misunderstanding (and up to now, contention).

    No one is claiming that masks are the cure-all, solve-all panacea that will magically keep you from getting the virus.

    Only that, as common sense would dictate to some of us, the use of masks will protect you a bit better from the inadvertent sneeze or cough from the person next to you.... at least when compared to not wearing a mask.

    No big deal.... no black magic.... no need for all the contention masks have apparently caused.

    Why the need for social distancing if you're wearing a mask?

    Simple. Neither is the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus. But together... they decrease your chances of getting infected significantly.

    One's a barrier... the other is simply distancing.
    then your answer shouldn't be yes. but you had the balls to answer so respect to you. do you believe you can't catch this virus through your eyes? doing no research would mean you are ignorant. don't take that wrong. so why are they forcing & mandating that people wear masks if they are not the cure-all? common sense would suggest a sneeze or cough would not just hone in on a mask but would also reach your eyes. so if neither are the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus then why force masks & social distancing on us? either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks. you should learn how each type of mask & filtration works. n95. surgical. material. let me ask another question if i may. not just to you but anyone who thinks masks & gloves work. if your mask & are catching & stopping the virus shouldn't there be bio hazard bins everywhere to dispose of these highly contagious items?


    So "brainless zombie" and "ignorant." Ok... I'll be sure and not take any of those wrong.

    Let me correct you on something. Not doing research on something does not make you ignorant. "Research" is a word lightly thrown around by guys such as yourself and I've seen Miles (Gandalf) do it as well. It lessens the work of those who do "real" research to claim that everyone and their brother can do research. Don't take that wrong.

    In this case, research would require a bio lab and plenty of equipment most mortal humans don't have ready access to.

    Now... having driven that point home, I'll address the other questions. The eyes? Sure... it has been said as much. The eyes are a vulnerable point of entry for a virus. But let me say this. If you're on a boat with 4 or 5 holes in the hull, then it's a fair certainty your boat's gonna sink, right? Cool. If you patch up 3 or 4 of those holes..... and bail out some water to boot..... your boat may not be as good as new.... but you might not sink. Cool?

    We're not talking "either/or" here, nor are we talking "black/white." The world is not made up of strictly absolutes. There is gray... and there are subtleties in most everything in life. I know enough about masks to make my personal choices when I go out. THAT...... is enough for me.

    For you to say this............ "either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks" smacks of pure ignorance. Don't take that wrong.

    Back to the boat analogy. You're taking on water so you patch up holes and you bail water. Does bailing alone save you from sinking? Probably not. Does patching some of the holes? Probably not. Does doing both improve your chances of not sinking?
    I'd say yes.

    Bio hazard bins...... good point. There should be plenty of those available. If government and/or businesses are going to mandate the use of masks and gloves.... then enough bio hazard bins should be supplied to dispose of used ones.

    But people are people. You see people protect themselves with gloves and masks.... only to take them off and throw them in the street. Worse than animals.

    The use of gloves is another point of contention.

    I use masks as I see fit.... but have hardly ever, if at all, used gloves. Why? Gloves just carry contamination from one place to another. People are so clueless as to glove use.

    Besides, common sense measures such as hand sanitizer and the washing of hands is more than enough.
    ignorant means lacking knowledge or awareness in general. research is an investigation in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions. in this case it doesn't require a bio lab. you could reference the independent research of places like osha regs & verify the info cited. because of your lack of knowledge about masks i must point out that masks don't act as a patch. if they worked like a patch to plug a hole completely then we wouldn't need social distancing would we. from your posts it is clear you have no knowledge of different masks & how their filtration works. if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks. if masks work why didn't they just give them to prisoners instead of releasing them? hmmm


    I suggest you work on your reading comprehension if you think you read that I think masks act as a patch. I will gladly get into a discussion of the filtration mechanism of masks with someone who comes into the conversation with a clear, unbiased mind about the topic in general and guess what...... you just don't tick that box. Don't take that the wrong way. If from the beginning you've been spouting one-liners about COVID being a hoax, it gives me little to no desire to discuss facemask filtration mechanics with you.

    Precisely because facemasks do not act as patches, is the reason why they must be combined with other measures such as social distancing. But we've been at this long enough to know that not everyone here is interested in having a frank, honest conversation about COVID and masks... haven't we.

    You persist on this: "if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks"

    If you want to hang on to that, knock yourself out.

    Maybe you missed the part where I told you neither is 100% effective, which is why people that truly know about this stuff (hint: there are none on this boxing forum) recommend using them both together. To minimize the probability of getting infected.
    i know masks don't work as a patch which is why your analogy was pointless. we are discussing if masks work. just because we don't agree on if the virus is real or not doesn't mean we can't discuss mask filtration. i like that you are copying me. tells me i hit a nerve. one has nothing to do with the other. so masks don't work unless combined with other measures. covid & masks are two different discussions. aren't they. so if masks are not one hundred percent effective then they don't work. we can use any other institutes independent research & citations if you would like to provide it. i just provided osha because i am familiar with them & have experience & knowledge of their research. if you would like me to explain how filtration works on each type of mask just ask. or you could go & research for yourself. that is best or else it's just as bad as relying on the tv to tell you what to think
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    They have been very careful in schools here. Masks are worn, proper masks. There was still an outbreak. They only do so much. Outbreaks will keep happening even with masks.
    what would you call proper masks?
    Basically the government issued masks that my wife seems to throw at me every now and then. I don't really pay much attention to them as I don't really use them much and there are no infections anywhere near me. Still all required in enclosed areas, but there is no infection in most cities of the country. It is just a few areas that keep having very sporadic clusters, but 10 cases in a city of 10 million? It is not that bad. You probably could wear the boxer short combo and be perfectly safe.
    would they be n95 type masks? material masks such as bandannas or cloth are completely useless & offer no filtration
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Hey guys, it's not my argument so sorry for butting in..... but for the most part, TIC has been asking a zillion times whether some of us believe that masks work.

    My own two cents, without claiming to be an expert on the subject, is that yes.... as NoSaving said.... wearing a mask will protect you from the many minute droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.... whether you're the one that coughed/sneezed or whether someone coughed/sneezed near you.

    I suspect that holds for any airborne illness, such as the flu, or any such bug.

    I think we're grasping onto aspects that really shouldn't even come into play. Maybe it's because of all the "THOU SHALT WEAR A MASK" backlash from people who bristle at being told what to do.

    I'll be the first to admit..... I wear a mask when I go to crowded public places..... and I didn't even conduct any scientific research in a laboratory to determine filterability, stability, aging resistance, or any other parameter.

    I just use the masks and some common sense social distancing.
    since you had the balls to sort of answer i'll go easy on you. i won't even bother with your eyes or how filtration works. so if you didn't do any research did you just you follow along like a brainless zombie? don't take that wrong. simple question. if you believe the masks work then why the need for social distancing?

    Eyes.... gotcha.

    Meh..... I don't believe my only two choices are 1) doing research or 2) follow along like a brainless zombie. But feel free to continue believing what you will.

    Somewhere in the middle there are educated guesses and common sense.

    But be that as it may..... here's the deal, and it may be the source of a lot of misunderstanding (and up to now, contention).

    No one is claiming that masks are the cure-all, solve-all panacea that will magically keep you from getting the virus.

    Only that, as common sense would dictate to some of us, the use of masks will protect you a bit better from the inadvertent sneeze or cough from the person next to you.... at least when compared to not wearing a mask.

    No big deal.... no black magic.... no need for all the contention masks have apparently caused.

    Why the need for social distancing if you're wearing a mask?

    Simple. Neither is the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus. But together... they decrease your chances of getting infected significantly.

    One's a barrier... the other is simply distancing.
    then your answer shouldn't be yes. but you had the balls to answer so respect to you. do you believe you can't catch this virus through your eyes? doing no research would mean you are ignorant. don't take that wrong. so why are they forcing & mandating that people wear masks if they are not the cure-all? common sense would suggest a sneeze or cough would not just hone in on a mask but would also reach your eyes. so if neither are the magic pill for avoiding catching the virus then why force masks & social distancing on us? either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks. you should learn how each type of mask & filtration works. n95. surgical. material. let me ask another question if i may. not just to you but anyone who thinks masks & gloves work. if your mask & are catching & stopping the virus shouldn't there be bio hazard bins everywhere to dispose of these highly contagious items?


    So "brainless zombie" and "ignorant." Ok... I'll be sure and not take any of those wrong.

    Let me correct you on something. Not doing research on something does not make you ignorant. "Research" is a word lightly thrown around by guys such as yourself and I've seen Miles (Gandalf) do it as well. It lessens the work of those who do "real" research to claim that everyone and their brother can do research. Don't take that wrong.

    In this case, research would require a bio lab and plenty of equipment most mortal humans don't have ready access to.

    Now... having driven that point home, I'll address the other questions. The eyes? Sure... it has been said as much. The eyes are a vulnerable point of entry for a virus. But let me say this. If you're on a boat with 4 or 5 holes in the hull, then it's a fair certainty your boat's gonna sink, right? Cool. If you patch up 3 or 4 of those holes..... and bail out some water to boot..... your boat may not be as good as new.... but you might not sink. Cool?

    We're not talking "either/or" here, nor are we talking "black/white." The world is not made up of strictly absolutes. There is gray... and there are subtleties in most everything in life. I know enough about masks to make my personal choices when I go out. THAT...... is enough for me.

    For you to say this............ "either masks work & there is no need for social distancing or social distancing works & there is no need for masks" smacks of pure ignorance. Don't take that wrong.

    Back to the boat analogy. You're taking on water so you patch up holes and you bail water. Does bailing alone save you from sinking? Probably not. Does patching some of the holes? Probably not. Does doing both improve your chances of not sinking?
    I'd say yes.

    Bio hazard bins...... good point. There should be plenty of those available. If government and/or businesses are going to mandate the use of masks and gloves.... then enough bio hazard bins should be supplied to dispose of used ones.

    But people are people. You see people protect themselves with gloves and masks.... only to take them off and throw them in the street. Worse than animals.

    The use of gloves is another point of contention.

    I use masks as I see fit.... but have hardly ever, if at all, used gloves. Why? Gloves just carry contamination from one place to another. People are so clueless as to glove use.

    Besides, common sense measures such as hand sanitizer and the washing of hands is more than enough.
    ignorant means lacking knowledge or awareness in general. research is an investigation in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions. in this case it doesn't require a bio lab. you could reference the independent research of places like osha regs & verify the info cited. because of your lack of knowledge about masks i must point out that masks don't act as a patch. if they worked like a patch to plug a hole completely then we wouldn't need social distancing would we. from your posts it is clear you have no knowledge of different masks & how their filtration works. if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks. if masks work why didn't they just give them to prisoners instead of releasing them? hmmm


    I suggest you work on your reading comprehension if you think you read that I think masks act as a patch. I will gladly get into a discussion of the filtration mechanism of masks with someone who comes into the conversation with a clear, unbiased mind about the topic in general and guess what...... you just don't tick that box. Don't take that the wrong way. If from the beginning you've been spouting one-liners about COVID being a hoax, it gives me little to no desire to discuss facemask filtration mechanics with you.

    Precisely because facemasks do not act as patches, is the reason why they must be combined with other measures such as social distancing. But we've been at this long enough to know that not everyone here is interested in having a frank, honest conversation about COVID and masks... haven't we.

    You persist on this: "if masks worked there would be no need for social distancing. if social distancing worked there would be no need for masks"

    If you want to hang on to that, knock yourself out.

    Maybe you missed the part where I told you neither is 100% effective, which is why people that truly know about this stuff (hint: there are none on this boxing forum) recommend using them both together. To minimize the probability of getting infected.
    i know masks don't work as a patch which is why your analogy was pointless. we are discussing if masks work. just because we don't agree on if the virus is real or not doesn't mean we can't discuss mask filtration. i like that you are copying me. tells me i hit a nerve. one has nothing to do with the other. so masks don't work unless combined with other measures. covid & masks are two different discussions. aren't they. so if masks are not one hundred percent effective then they don't work. we can use any other institutes independent research & citations if you would like to provide it. i just provided osha because i am familiar with them & have experience & knowledge of their research. if you would like me to explain how filtration works on each type of mask just ask. or you could go & research for yourself. that is best or else it's just as bad as relying on the tv to tell you what to think

    Nerve? Don't fucking flatter yourself. I copy/paste any quote I find utterly ridiculous just to highlight it. Ok so you feel it's either 100% or 0% with masks. Great. Like I said... knock yourself out. It appears you're the one with little to no knowledge about filtration technology. Listen... nobody's telling you to change your mind. You're free to keep believing the shit you believe. Why does it matter to you so much what others choose to believe? It seems personal with you.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    but you didn't copy my quote did you? well my question was do masks work. so either they do or they don't. we are talking about if they will stop an invisible virus. it is not just my knowledge on filtration but independent research & verified citations from osha. you can provide your own for us to discuss. i don't care what others believe. beliefs aren't facts. when they start mandating this stuff on people is where the problem starts. you yourself have said that masks need to be combined with social distancing. so are masks in combination with social distancing one hundred percent effective? don't bother answering. the only way to be one hundred percent effective would be a hazmat suit with it's on air supply
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    First you don't even believe the virus is real. So why are we having this conversation? Why care about masks against a virus you say doesn't exist? Doesn't add up. Assuming you're just arguing for argument's sake, no....... you're wrong. It's not simply "masks work or they don't." There is a filtration efficiency involved, just like any filter in any application. If you're having trouble following, look it up. Filters are rated as to their efficiency in removing particles from airflow. It's not simply a matter of 100% or 0%. That's not the way it works. But hey... it's not my job to instruct you. Number one I'd have to want to convince you, which I don't.... and number two, I'd have to be convinced I'm talking with someone who gives a fuck, which you obviously don't. So carry on. Maybe you can convince others of your beliefs.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    TIC was the one who phantom-copied something that two other posters had pasted already. Phantom copying it's not really legit, especially if two other posters have already pasted something. Copying something is okay but TIC has used it as a patch like someone would use it in a lifeboat, and Tito fan rightly said that they were three or four holes in the boat. The only way I can see TIC being correct on this if it is a phantom boat. Otherwise no way can he get away with phantom copying what two other posters pasted.

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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    First you don't even believe the virus is real. So why are we having this conversation? Why care about masks against a virus you say doesn't exist? Doesn't add up. Assuming you're just arguing for argument's sake, no....... you're wrong. It's not simply "masks work or they don't." There is a filtration efficiency involved, just like any filter in any application. If you're having trouble following, look it up. Filters are rated as to their efficiency in removing particles from airflow. It's not simply a matter of 100% or 0%. That's not the way it works. But hey... it's not my job to instruct you. Number one I'd have to want to convince you, which I don't.... and number two, I'd have to be convinced I'm talking with someone who gives a fuck, which you obviously don't. So carry on. Maybe you can convince others of your beliefs.
    covid being a virus caught from outside the body through the air or off surfaces & masks are two different discussions. i don't care about masks. i care about them being mandatory. i understand how filtration works on each type of mask. i have mentioned osha's own independent research as a means for you to research & verify the citations. not my beliefs
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    Default Re: Cooking the Books on Covid-19?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    TIC was the one who phantom-copied something that two other posters had pasted already. Phantom copying it's not really legit, especially if two other posters have already pasted something. Copying something is okay but TIC has used it as a patch like someone would use it in a lifeboat, and Tito fan rightly said that they were three or four holes in the boat. The only way I can see TIC being correct on this if it is a phantom boat. Otherwise no way can he get away with phantom copying what two other posters pasted.
    you haven't told me what type of better mask type you use
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