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Thread: Is it Frotch or Frock?

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    They told me CAL-SLAPPY, then I frowned at him for saying that to me because he's a professional and good fighter. But then I saw a collection of Calzaghe fights and he punches fast and volume of punches, but really is true lots of them are slapping kind of slap punches and arm punches.

    He looks good and fast but after watching about 7 fights of Calzaghe, it seems he never fought high level competition. And when he did fought RJJ and BHop, they were already an old man.
    Firstly, he was a bit “slappy” for sure. But I think that’s due to hand injuries he had and modified his technique . But the thing is, sometimes them slaps hurt! But there is absolutely no doubt that he was a very skilful fighter.
    And the level of fighters he fought will always be labelled at him . But he beat a Kessler in his prime (who was very good) and destroyed Lacy. Now hindsight is a wonderful thing and we can all say “Yeah but Lacy wasn’t any good.” But he came into that fight with a reputation of being a complete beast.
    Maybe we have to give Calzaghe the credit for taking Lacy’s “Aura” , his “mojo”, in the same way that maybe MAB took Naz’s.
    You don’t go from being a Worldbeater to a nobody overnight.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    They told me CAL-SLAPPY, then I frowned at him for saying that to me because he's a professional and good fighter. But then I saw a collection of Calzaghe fights and he punches fast and volume of punches, but really is true lots of them are slapping kind of slap punches and arm punches.

    He looks good and fast but after watching about 7 fights of Calzaghe, it seems he never fought high level competition. And when he did fought RJJ and BHop, they were already an old man.
    Firstly, he was a bit “slappy” for sure. But I think that’s due to hand injuries he had and modified his technique . But the thing is, sometimes them slaps hurt! But there is absolutely no doubt that he was a very skilful fighter.
    And the level of fighters he fought will always be labelled at him . But he beat a Kessler in his prime (who was very good) and destroyed Lacy. Now hindsight is a wonderful thing and we can all say “Yeah but Lacy wasn’t any good.” But he came into that fight with a reputation of being a complete beast.
    Maybe we have to give Calzaghe the credit for taking Lacy’s “Aura” , his “mojo”, in the same way that maybe MAB took Naz’s.
    You don’t go from being a Worldbeater to a nobody overnight.
    Kessler in his prime is his highest badge of honour. Lacy, mojo, aura, yea I can give Slappy some credit for that, but thats like saying how those who exposed Michael Grant or Courage Tschabalala or David American Dream Reid were really super fighters, no, they just exposed them but it doesnt make them super. Look how Jimmy Thunder got exposed and Obed SUllivan, all these scary undefeated got blitzed out by club fighters. Cant really give Slappy too much credit for that. Lacy's aura wasnt going to be knocking out anybody anyway. The mere and simple fact that 2 old men gave him the fights of his life exposes Calspally more than anything else. RJJ and BHop, come one, way too old to fight and still gave him fits. In their prime (or Hagler or Hearns even) would have destroyed that overrated slapper.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    B Hop still did amazing things after he got beat by Joe Calzaghe so that victory is a good one. Also remember these last 2 fights of his career were at light heavyweight not his best weight.

    Beating 2 undefeated young champions and then 2 legends in USA is a nice way to finish off your career. Carl Froch would kill for something like that.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Ignoring the fact Calzaghe was from the same era/age group as Roy and Hopkins, to claim they were geriatric shadows is complete and utter revisionist rubbish. Nard's best wins came either side of his Calzaghe loss and Roy, although evidently past his best, wasn't the "shot" dinosaur everyone now makes out.

    Young Hopkins (middleweight) vs young Calzaghe is a totally different fight. Either way, neither is leaving the other for dead. And prime Roy never fought anyone like Calzaghe and didn't always wipe the floor with everyone. And I don't care what anyone says - Calzaghe's final performance against Roy was awesome.

    The same people who slag off Calzaghe's record boast about Bhop's middleweight defences. Nothing but American bias/nationalism. The other former champs and top ten Ring contenders Calzaghe defeated don't exist. Why? Calzaghe's career started with Lacy for the vast majority of Americans and salty Brits.
    Last edited by Fenster; 05-14-2020 at 01:26 PM.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    They told me CAL-SLAPPY, then I frowned at him for saying that to me because he's a professional and good fighter. But then I saw a collection of Calzaghe fights and he punches fast and volume of punches, but really is true lots of them are slapping kind of slap punches and arm punches.

    He looks good and fast but after watching about 7 fights of Calzaghe, it seems he never fought high level competition. And when he did fought RJJ and BHop, they were already an old man.
    Firstly, he was a bit “slappy” for sure. But I think that’s due to hand injuries he had and modified his technique . But the thing is, sometimes them slaps hurt! But there is absolutely no doubt that he was a very skilful fighter.
    And the level of fighters he fought will always be labelled at him . But he beat a Kessler in his prime (who was very good) and destroyed Lacy. Now hindsight is a wonderful thing and we can all say “Yeah but Lacy wasn’t any good.” But he came into that fight with a reputation of being a complete beast.
    Maybe we have to give Calzaghe the credit for taking Lacy’s “Aura” , his “mojo”, in the same way that maybe MAB took Naz’s.
    You don’t go from being a Worldbeater to a nobody overnight.
    Kessler in his prime is his highest badge of honour. Lacy, mojo, aura, yea I can give Slappy some credit for that, but thats like saying how those who exposed Michael Grant or Courage Tschabalala or David American Dream Reid were really super fighters, no, they just exposed them but it doesnt make them super. Look how Jimmy Thunder got exposed and Obed SUllivan, all these scary undefeated got blitzed out by club fighters. Cant really give Slappy too much credit for that. Lacy's aura wasnt going to be knocking out anybody anyway. The mere and simple fact that 2 old men gave him the fights of his life exposes Calspally more than anything else. RJJ and BHop, come one, way too old to fight and still gave him fits. In their prime (or Hagler or Hearns even) would have destroyed that overrated slapper.
    Hopkins went on to be a World Champion (at a weight above what Calzaghe fought all his career at.) after Calzaghe beat him.
    And nobody is trying to say RJJ Was anywhere near his prime nor is anyone saying Calzaghe was better than Roy. Probably if they had fought in their primes, RJJ would’ve won.
    I don’t have a problem saying that , and you know why? Because Joe said it himself.
    Not bad though is it? All the Brit SMW’s have said Joe was the best of all of them.
    So I’ll carry on giving balance and the haters can carry on hating for the sake of it.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Ignoring the fact Calzaghe was from the same era/age group as Roy and Hopkins, to claim they were geriatric shadows is complete and utter revisionist rubbish. Nard's best wins came either side of his Calzaghe loss and Roy, although evidently past his best, wasn't the "shot" dinosaur everyone now makes out.

    Young Hopkins (middleweight) vs young Calzaghe is a totally different fight. Either way, neither is leaving the other for dead. And prime Roy never fought anyone like Calzaghe and didn't always wipe the floor with everyone. And I don't care what anyone says - Calzaghe's final performance against Roy was awesome.

    The same people who slag off Calzaghe's record boast about Bhop's middleweight defences. Nothing but American bias/nationalism. The other former champs and top ten Ring contenders Calzaghe defeated don't exist. Why? Calzaghe's career started with Lacy for the vast majority of Americans and salty Brits.

    Solid post, and let me be the first to say here: I detest to the back teeth American bias/nationalism, in sports, in politics, in military. Detest I say.

    Geriatric shadows that made me laugh, I don't know if you coined it that, but its a good one. No I wouldn't say they were that far gone, but a prime RJJ would dominate Joe, maybe not leave for dead as you say (hell Primo just scolded me for using the same term "dead" "kill" whatever when saying that Bivol may "kill" Callum, jeez @Primo Carnera it was figurative FFS) but he would shellack him.

    Now BHop yes had great nights before and after so yeah, good point there as well. In the end, Joe Calzaghe was an exceptional fighter, undefeated, amazing hand speed and combos, and got up off the canvass to come back and win. The question really is: could he have fought better comp? Was that better comp even out there and available at the time? If not, then its all he could be expected to do.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    joe would have beat carl. joe & sven should have fought
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    joe would have beat carl. joe & sven should have fought
    The fact that Sven Ottke was regarded higher than Joe at one point when he started unifying the titles does show that Joe was "coasting" with his WBO title and content having mandatory defences.

    Joe was good enough to beat Ottke but never took that fight. That is a stain on his record but he is still good enough to beat Froch.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    joe would have beat carl. joe & sven should have fought
    The fact that Sven Ottke was regarded higher than Joe at one point when he started unifying the titles does show that Joe was "coasting" with his WBO title and content having mandatory defences.

    Joe was good enough to beat Ottke but never took that fight. That is a stain on his record but he is still good enough to beat Froch.
    I bought all that shit from Frank Warren back in the day - Ottke "ducking" Joe, terrified of leaving Germany, he's boring, he prices himself out, etc. But truth is, yes, Ottke unified, was a much bigger draw in Germany than Joe was in Britain and was rightly rated above him considering Calzaghe feasted on his leftovers (Joe beat them better but still, Ottke had already beat them).

    Imagine Calzaghe in this modern era with a modern promoter (that includes Bob and Al), multi TV deals, social media and multi platforms? It's almost laughable Froch, DeGale, Groves, Bellew etc became global "stars" whilst Calzaghe, a genuine all-time great, spent most his prime fannying about with "cab drivers."
    Last edited by Fenster; 05-15-2020 at 01:11 PM.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    joe would have beat carl. joe & sven should have fought
    The fact that Sven Ottke was regarded higher than Joe at one point when he started unifying the titles does show that Joe was "coasting" with his WBO title and content having mandatory defences.

    Joe was good enough to beat Ottke but never took that fight. That is a stain on his record but he is still good enough to beat Froch.
    I bought all that shit from Frank Warren back in the day - Ottke "ducking" Joe, terrified of leaving Germany, he's boring, he prices himself out, etc. But truth is, yes, Ottke unified, was a much bigger draw in Germany than Joe was in Britain and was rightly rated above him considering Calzaghe feasted on his leftovers (Joe beat them better but still, Ottke had already beat them).

    Imagine Calzaghe in this modern era with a modern promoter (that includes Bob and Al), multi TV deals, social media and multi platforms? It's almost laughable Froch, DeGale, Groves, Bellew etc became global "stars" whilst Calzaghe, a genuine all-time great, spent most his prime fannying about with "cab drivers."
    I actually agree that Calzaghe should have a much more stable legacy. His legacy is so weird because he was undefeated and beat good fighters, but even during his career, he was just never a huge name.

    Because of that, his legacy is all over the place depending on who you talk to. It’s unfortunate.

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