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Thread: Visual Perception.

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    it is well known by seers, sages and shamans, and in the Tibetan Book of The Dead, that an object is really another object: we recently saw in quantum coupling that an object can be an object which is not itself. Objects therefore cannot have any shape, as they may or may not be the object you name it, but another object in its place. and if you see that an atom is 99.999975% empty, then you will know that objects are mere illusions. If an atom was the size of a football field, there would be a nucleus at midfield so small you would need a microscope to see its protons and neutrons, and the orbitals of the electrons would be 100 meters out in orbits. 99.99975% of the footbal field would be pure empty space. Objects are therefore 99.99975% hollow. What you see is not really an object.
    Are you claiming objects are mere illusions?
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    They live, We sleep

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    Is a brick a physical object of our shared objective reality or a mere illusion?
    They live, We sleep

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    Is a brick a physical object of our shared objective reality or a mere illusion?
    We both see and say "brick" but I don't know what you are seeing, and you don't know what I am seeing. Take the color blue or pink. I don't know if you are seeing the exact same "color" as I am. But we agree it's blue, so some sharing must be there.

    What do you think?

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    On a sensory note molecular wise that is! I wonder if an alien world were to ever contact us and their visual perception isn't just greater in seeing distances like a bird, but sensitive eyes likened to a microscope. Could that be why they won't contact us?
    Because we look like a moving massive blob of ever flowing bacterial microbes!!! Eww!!! Those beings residing on that 3rd speck of dirt from their closet ball of gaseous fire are most hideous looking!!
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    Is a brick a physical object of our shared objective reality or a mere illusion?
    We both see and say "brick" but I don't know what you are seeing, and you don't know what I am seeing. Take the color blue or pink. I don't know if you are seeing the exact same "color" as I am. But we agree it's blue, so some sharing must be there.

    What do you think?
    The query becomes, what are objects? How to define objects? How to divide the categories of objects?

    Objects are shareable.

    Physical Objects (matter, substance, body):
    Fixed, planar, level, and plumb, scalar invariant, tangible, figure and extension, (length, area and volume), moves and resists in its constituent parts, figured, colored, hard or soft, that moves or resists, rough or smooth.
    Physicals:
    Materials
    Substances
    Corporeal bodies
    Rational constructions
    Engineer-able

    Arithmetic
    Euclidean Geometry


    Visible Objects (color, figure, extension, signs)
    Changing, spherical, great circles & semi-diameters, excess & defect, visible, figure & extension (length, area), colored, visible position
    Sensibles:
    Of Seeing
    Of Hearing
    Of Smelling
    Of Tasting
    Of Touching

    Visible Geometry
    Perceptions


    Mental Objects (objects of thought, concepts, ideas, things signified)
    Attachments, attention, perception, beliefs, no shape, no size, nor does they share any other attributes or properties of physicals and/or opticals
    Mentals:
    Ideas
    Concepts
    Imagination
    Images
    Representations

    Mathematics (Ratio of quantity)
    Language
    They live, We sleep

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    Is a brick a physical object of our shared objective reality or a mere illusion?
    We both see and say "brick" but I don't know what you are seeing, and you don't know what I am seeing. Take the color blue or pink. I don't know if you are seeing the exact same "color" as I am. But we agree it's blue, so some sharing must be there.

    What do you think?
    The query becomes, what are objects? How to define objects? How to divide the categories of objects?

    Objects are shareable.

    Physical Objects (matter, substance, body):
    Fixed, planar, level, and plumb, scalar invariant, tangible, figure and extension, (length, area and volume), moves and resists in its constituent parts, figured, colored, hard or soft, that moves or resists, rough or smooth.
    Physicals:
    Materials
    Substances
    Corporeal bodies
    Rational constructions
    Engineer-able

    Arithmetic
    Euclidean Geometry


    Visible Objects (color, figure, extension, signs)
    Changing, spherical, great circles & semi-diameters, excess & defect, visible, figure & extension (length, area), colored, visible position
    Sensibles:
    Of Seeing
    Of Hearing
    Of Smelling
    Of Tasting
    Of Touching

    Visible Geometry
    Perceptions


    Mental Objects (objects of thought, concepts, ideas, things signified)
    Attachments, attention, perception, beliefs, no shape, no size, nor does they share any other attributes or properties of physicals and/or opticals
    Mentals:
    Ideas
    Concepts
    Imagination
    Images
    Representations

    Mathematics (Ratio of quantity)
    Language
    Well those are categories but of what, really, besides the Euclidean geometries? Olfactory sensations and perceptions may or may not indicate a shareable object. Imaginary objects are something in a whole nother can of worms. If I imagine an object, there are no sense perceptions, do you feel the shadows in the cave were objects or just 2nd rate indications of objects?

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    Is a brick a physical object of our shared objective reality or a mere illusion?
    We both see and say "brick" but I don't know what you are seeing, and you don't know what I am seeing. Take the color blue or pink. I don't know if you are seeing the exact same "color" as I am. But we agree it's blue, so some sharing must be there.

    What do you think?
    The query becomes, what are objects? How to define objects? How to divide the categories of objects?

    Objects are shareable.

    Physical Objects (matter, substance, body):
    Fixed, planar, level, and plumb, scalar invariant, tangible, figure and extension, (length, area and volume), moves and resists in its constituent parts, figured, colored, hard or soft, that moves or resists, rough or smooth.
    Physicals:
    Materials
    Substances
    Corporeal bodies
    Rational constructions
    Engineer-able

    Arithmetic
    Euclidean Geometry


    Visible Objects (color, figure, extension, signs)
    Changing, spherical, great circles & semi-diameters, excess & defect, visible, figure & extension (length, area), colored, visible position
    Sensibles:
    Of Seeing
    Of Hearing
    Of Smelling
    Of Tasting
    Of Touching

    Visible Geometry
    Perceptions


    Mental Objects (objects of thought, concepts, ideas, things signified)
    Attachments, attention, perception, beliefs, no shape, no size, nor does they share any other attributes or properties of physicals and/or opticals
    Mentals:
    Ideas
    Concepts
    Imagination
    Images
    Representations

    Mathematics (Ratio of quantity)
    Language
    Well those are categories but of what, really, besides the Euclidean geometries? Olfactory sensations and perceptions may or may not indicate a shareable object. Imaginary objects are something in a whole nother can of worms. If I imagine an object, there are no sense perceptions, do you feel the shadows in the cave were objects or just 2nd rate indications of objects?
    So you disagree with how I define objects and how I have divided the categories of objects?
    They live, We sleep

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    We are seeing what we are seeing, we are hearing what we are hearing, feeling and smelling and tasting what we are feeling I'm smelling and tasting, BUT.....


    BUT.....

    They are not indicative of what the objects really are.
    So they are objects?
    Well I don't really know what an object is because an object is made out of billions of atoms which I just told you are 99.99975% hollow or empty.

    What is the essential unit? For me it certainly would not be billions of atoms which form billions of molecules which then form what we think is an object.

    If we could get to a unit that we could all agree is the smallest unit then and only then could we say that is an object.

    Immutable.

    So they split the atom and then they split the subatomic particles and now we are splitting particles smaller than those.

    So I don't even know if those can be considered objects.
    Is a brick a physical object of our shared objective reality or a mere illusion?
    We both see and say "brick" but I don't know what you are seeing, and you don't know what I am seeing. Take the color blue or pink. I don't know if you are seeing the exact same "color" as I am. But we agree it's blue, so some sharing must be there.

    What do you think?
    The query becomes, what are objects? How to define objects? How to divide the categories of objects?

    Objects are shareable.

    Physical Objects (matter, substance, body):
    Fixed, planar, level, and plumb, scalar invariant, tangible, figure and extension, (length, area and volume), moves and resists in its constituent parts, figured, colored, hard or soft, that moves or resists, rough or smooth.
    Physicals:
    Materials
    Substances
    Corporeal bodies
    Rational constructions
    Engineer-able

    Arithmetic
    Euclidean Geometry


    Visible Objects (color, figure, extension, signs)
    Changing, spherical, great circles & semi-diameters, excess & defect, visible, figure & extension (length, area), colored, visible position
    Sensibles:
    Of Seeing
    Of Hearing
    Of Smelling
    Of Tasting
    Of Touching

    Visible Geometry
    Perceptions


    Mental Objects (objects of thought, concepts, ideas, things signified)
    Attachments, attention, perception, beliefs, no shape, no size, nor does they share any other attributes or properties of physicals and/or opticals
    Mentals:
    Ideas
    Concepts
    Imagination
    Images
    Representations

    Mathematics (Ratio of quantity)
    Language
    Well those are categories but of what, really, besides the Euclidean geometries? Olfactory sensations and perceptions may or may not indicate a shareable object. Imaginary objects are something in a whole nother can of worms. If I imagine an object, there are no sense perceptions, do you feel the shadows in the cave were objects or just 2nd rate indications of objects?
    So you disagree with how I define objects and how I have divided the categories of objects?
    No. I just felt those were definitions more of our sense perceptions rather than of the objects we feel we are perceiving

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    The categories were good and I'm not saying I disagree. I can understand the logic that you use to make those categories. But the descriptions such as euclidean or planar seem to be more like descriptions of the object rather than indicative of types of objects

    Because some objects will have more than one of those parameters or qualities but it doesn't make them more than one object. so I'm not really sure that the description of an object is an indication of the type of object

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

























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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post

























    Cezanne is not really about perspective. His genius is to allow viewers to disentangle themselves from the idea that painting is in any way truly representative. It is always someone else's perception from a particular viewpoint but in allowing his own feelings and ability to acknowledge the futility of photorealism he shows the viewer an impression that is uniquely his, including his emotional state in that rendering. Less really is more and there is far more truth in that painting than any photographer could ever hope to capture.

    Acuity is about sharpness. That hunt for an edge has led to the lenses and sensors of today which many people find too cutting and not like how we see the world at all. What you focus on is very much governed by time and your own preconceptions but physics will never reveal that bias because it is uniquely individual. It is a big part of what makes us human.

    We interpret signs and attribute meaning to everything. To think that 'natural science' could explain that is ludicrous.
    Hidden Content

    "I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it."

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    Default Re: Visual Perception.

    As I've said before, this is an enquiry into visual geometry and the difference between visual and physical geometry.

    Cezanne's painting is there because it is presented under forced perspective, which was what my previous post was about. As stated by Wikipedia:



    I'm not sure why you are bring up natural science in this thread unless you have practical demonstrations and practical reference points in this reality for me.

    Visual geometry is different from physical geometry, e.g. railway tracks appear to converge at a vanishing point. The physical geometry is that parallel lines never intersect. The railway tracks only appear to be coming together, the reality is they are always the same distance apart.

    Have a great New Year Beanz, all the best to you and your family.
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