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Thread: What is the Art of boxing?

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

    The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.
    Sensing in the split second not to get hit and then counter to hit your opponent is capitalising on their mistake.

    Tell Mayweather that’s corny..Duh

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about what the art of boxing Is but try not to over think things?!
    What I meant by corny is that we should try to use our own words to describe that strategy rather than just repeat the same old words we have always heard about it and not get hit

    Perhaps I was not clear enough. I am not over-thinking anything I am saying to think less is better. as Mike Tyson famously said all the best laid strategies and plans and techniques in the world go right out the window the minute the first punch is landed

    @imp that's what I was saying.
    Cool.
    A now elderly british boxing trainer told me years ago , boxers are born, not trained, all a trainer does is to make sure they are fit. I believe that, just look at Naz.

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    Wink Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    I am definitely staying away from the dictionary lest I put anyone to sleep by mistake but art is described as human creativity so are boxing moves, it's a skill. In order to make boxing art, you have got to be cunning, sly, tricky and make your application stick. Punches have to be delivered with a methodology that makes the winning fighter look dominant. He is in shape like Ishmael Laguna when he out sped Mando Ramos and when Kenny Buchanan out speed the speedster he was stop by hands of stone who worked the speedbag with his head and jumped rope from a squatted position and was underrated by other opponents with boxing skills that rivaled Ray Leonard in the beginning and then after a short losing streak came back with more movements. Ray Robinson had a left hook lead faster than anyone's jab in his era. Muhammed Ali danced the night away but really good dancing as per Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire was followed by a jab. Earl Spence fought his hardest fight with Shawn but choregraphed his response under extreme pressure and had his hand raised. When you talk about art it is a finished product but in boxing you are only as good as your last fight. So put it together and do it again.

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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    James Buddy McGirt beating Simon Brown was pure art.
    Remember reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol .

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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    McGirt put on a master class in that one

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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

    The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.
    Topic sentences from this thread really stand out for me come from the opener.

    1. while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear,
    2. The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit"


    on #1. That is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I hear a fighter say they took their time and looked for openings -To me that is a lot of shit that has to happen. You pointed it out, what if the foe is in range from U landing but he is in range for him to land? (Think Paul Williams reach) that tells me if a sweet science fighter doesn't see ALL the necessary things to throw, land without being hit in response..well hell...he aint takin it then...We got the right to call it a boring chess match.

    But….what if the Artist in the ring is Juan Manual Marquez? He isn't the fastest, the strongest, yet he is a sweet science mofo that makes me think in order for him to perform the art of boxing....he KNOWS he has to take one- to land, SO he has to find...or as you stated- be patient and wait for the opening that he can be hit with the least impact- countering with the greatest impact.
    That can happen by timing a fighter or...patient in hoping the boxer makes a mistake- that a quick enough sweet science fighter can take advantage of- if/when the moment presents itself.

    2. The Art of boxing -sounding corny is indeed a cliché. My example is Leonard vs Benitez or Leonard vs Hearns by way of my own eyes watching and Ray who detailed both fights.
    We know Ray has stated- fighting Wilfredo was like looking in a mirror- so the only way he could win,...was to say F' the boxing...we are near equal so lets go mano y mano.
    IMO -I define that as he threw the art of boxing book out the window in order to beat Wilfredo Benitez and Tommy Hearns.

    With Hearns ---the KO artist using the art of jabbing his eye to a puffy-greyed mess -forcing Dundee to say "Ya blowin it kid So Ray...a sweet science fighter found no openings to hit---without getting hit.
    So F' it take the fight to Tommy!!


    It was Ali himself who said the rope-a-dope was invented on the spot- playing to your words of:
    random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, in Africa with torrid humidity on both they asses!
    Well damn, George the Mummy was slow, but never out of range to counter. Wasn't a fighter with bad balance, so Ali's Einstein idea was....lay on the ropes and HOPE this fool tires out from the humidity that is about to bring the storms.

    I wager to say every art has a similarity- when it is done in reel time that is. Sometimes it requires what is said in American football as an audible (sometimes what was practiced against sparring aint gonna work come gametime).

    And even if an art form is mastered, doesn't mean something intangible cant impede one from making use of it- I know that's what a black man said & felt on dancing to white art form. His name is Floyd Mayweather when asked on Dancing with the stars -what was most difficult that prevented him from winning- he said the rhythm. White folk got rhythm, but he experienced great difficulty in mastering it. It as in the art of that particular dance.

    That means if he was in competition against a white woman in her near 50s...named Tony Basil who could do ballet, folk dance, pop dance...and helped get some bruthas on the camera by popping and locking...

    Floyd had an artform...but was limited. Many blacks dont know it -cause we never tried their many art forms of dancing. He had the art of soul dancing, get ya boogie on, but wasn't versed with white rhythm the way Tony Basil was with blacks. Tony Basil's artform was more dominant....doesn't mean someone from the Lord of the Dance -shows her limits.

    To me that is the art of boxing- a (combination) of skills and (patience) to enact= what was learned in preparations...and sometimes it is on the spot- as with Leonard vs Hearns or Pryor who said he switched up midrounds because he said he knew he could NOT beat Arguello just slugging toe to toe...artform-that required an adjustment....

    random,
    lucky,
    spontaneous openings that appear,
    and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position
    or on the wrong foot, which allows one...to implement the corny phrase of "hit and not get hit


    and if one can't use their art form, because their foe is just as artistic...well dam! Holyfield-Bowe, Ali-Frazier, Castillo-Corrales, Marquez-Pacquiao...fuck the art...Let a fight break out!


    da' white woman gets her boogie on 2min into the 1975 clip!
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al View Post
    James Buddy McGirt beating Simon Brown was pure art.
    Excellent example Dark Lord.

    Not all world champions make great trainers..Buddy did both.


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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell View Post
    For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

    The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.
    Topic sentences from this thread really stand out for me come from the opener.

    1. while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear,
    2. The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit"


    on #1. That is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I hear a fighter say they took their time and looked for openings -To me that is a lot of shit that has to happen. You pointed it out, what if the foe is in range from U landing but he is in range for him to land? (Think Paul Williams reach) that tells me if a sweet science fighter doesn't see ALL the necessary things to throw, land without being hit in response..well hell...he aint takin it then...We got the right to call it a boring chess match.

    But….what if the Artist in the ring is Juan Manual Marquez? He isn't the fastest, the strongest, yet he is a sweet science mofo that makes me think in order for him to perform the art of boxing....he KNOWS he has to take one- to land, SO he has to find...or as you stated- be patient and wait for the opening that he can be hit with the least impact- countering with the greatest impact.
    That can happen by timing a fighter or...patient in hoping the boxer makes a mistake- that a quick enough sweet science fighter can take advantage of- if/when the moment presents itself.

    2. The Art of boxing -sounding corny is indeed a cliché. My example is Leonard vs Benitez or Leonard vs Hearns by way of my own eyes watching and Ray who detailed both fights.
    We know Ray has stated- fighting Wilfredo was like looking in a mirror- so the only way he could win,...was to say F' the boxing...we are near equal so lets go mano y mano.
    IMO -I define that as he threw the art of boxing book out the window in order to beat Wilfredo Benitez and Tommy Hearns.

    With Hearns ---the KO artist using the art of jabbing his eye to a puffy-greyed mess -forcing Dundee to say "Ya blowin it kid So Ray...a sweet science fighter found no openings to hit---without getting hit.
    So F' it take the fight to Tommy!!


    It was Ali himself who said the rope-a-dope was invented on the spot- playing to your words of:
    random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, in Africa with torrid humidity on both they asses!
    Well damn, George the Mummy was slow, but never out of range to counter. Wasn't a fighter with bad balance, so Ali's Einstein idea was....lay on the ropes and HOPE this fool tires out from the humidity that is about to bring the storms.

    I wager to say every art has a similarity- when it is done in reel time that is. Sometimes it requires what is said in American football as an audible (sometimes what was practiced against sparring aint gonna work come gametime).

    And even if an art form is mastered, doesn't mean something intangible cant impede one from making use of it- I know that's what a black man said & felt on dancing to white art form. His name is Floyd Mayweather when asked on Dancing with the stars -what was most difficult that prevented him from winning- he said the rhythm. White folk got rhythm, but he experienced great difficulty in mastering it. It as in the art of that particular dance.

    That means if he was in competition against a white woman in her near 50s...named Tony Basil who could do ballet, folk dance, pop dance...and helped get some bruthas on the camera by popping and locking...

    Floyd had an artform...but was limited. Many blacks dont know it -cause we never tried their many art forms of dancing. He had the art of soul dancing, get ya boogie on, but wasn't versed with white rhythm the way Tony Basil was with blacks. Tony Basil's artform was more dominant....doesn't mean someone from the Lord of the Dance -shows her limits.

    To me that is the art of boxing- a (combination) of skills and (patience) to enact= what was learned in preparations...and sometimes it is on the spot- as with Leonard vs Hearns or Pryor who said he switched up midrounds because he said he knew he could NOT beat Arguello just slugging toe to toe...artform-that required an adjustment....

    random,
    lucky,
    spontaneous openings that appear,
    and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position
    or on the wrong foot, which allows one...to implement the corny phrase of "hit and not get hit


    and if one can't use their art form, because their foe is just as artistic...well dam! Holyfield-Bowe, Ali-Frazier, Castillo-Corrales, Marquez-Pacquiao...fuck the art...Let a fight break out!


    da' white woman gets her boogie on 2min into the 1975 clip!


    Slim, these Mega-Cluster posts contain so many GEMS, I cant even begin to shine more light on them. First, lets start with the 'Train. Yeah. I watched that show eveery Saturday morning for years, my initials are actually S.T., so my neighborhood stickball buddies would call me Soul Train when I was like 12 years old haha.

    2;08 to 2;12 that woman sure puts on some slick, Im guessin she's Hispanic or Italian, ..... and my man at 5:38 HAHAHA aint that some cool the way cool USED to be.

    On to boxing: #1--- SRL is an awesome example you used: I also hate it when the snobbery gets to "I took my time and looked for openings" like hell you did Sugar! Sugar Man just threw caution to the wind and went BOTH BARRELS BLAZING like the Great Marciano: BOTH BARRELS BLAZING. SRL took TH out of there man, no damn practiced nuances in any of that. I def relate to your "IF A SWEET SCIENCE FIGHTER DOESNT SEE ALL THE NECESSARY THINGS IN ORDER TO THROW......" hell yeah we have a boring ass snooze fest. BUT as you stated with Marquez, definitely..... take a lighter shot to counter with a heavier shot.

    #2: the art of jabbing the eye til puffy and grey hahaha LMFAO and then Sugar justs.....BAM BAM BIFF!!!! Good night Tommy. Oh and Benitez too.

    and hahaha LMAO HOPE-A-Dope punches himself out, as you say both they asses sweatin in Kinshasa with the Lumumba Boys right behind .....

    Man you nailed what I was trying to say about intangibles Slim. Come gametime, ya better keep 3 eyes out, cuz dem 2 you used in sparring are gonna be cockeyed and crisscrossed the minute something goes wrong. IN other words, its random ad lib think on ya feet, get ready to rumble type stuff. Yet as you pointed out, it doesnt mean you cant roll with it USING what you practiced.

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    Default Re: What is the Art of boxing?

    Hope a Dope...I'm steallin' that one!
    Last edited by SlimTrae; 06-18-2020 at 09:05 AM.
    All's lost! Everything's going to shit!

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