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Thread: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Ennis turning it up in 5th jarring Abreu and lands hard on the beltline, Abreu looks for a time out and ref says keep fighting. In turn Abreu hits Ennis in his Ennis Jr and both warned. Ennis walking in behind high shoulder guard and landing left hooks..and down he goes. Abreu flat and up at 8! Abreu not long for this. Beautiful inside right uppercut counter got the KD, very fluid
    thats how steve forbes knocked out julio sanchez leon.



    a while ago it used to be that, if you missed a right hand, you'd bring your right arm across your face, sort of like a face bar, so you could catch that counter in palm of your right glove.



    if you watch all the old fights you will see guys doing that often. i think it might have something to do with how fighters used to throw that counter more often. it is nice to see someone that can still do that today, even if no one else knows how to keep from getting hit by it today.


    Nice comparison between the two shots. However, my thoughts on the bottom one is that the guy throwing the right hand isn't doing so with any conviction and is almost expecting the upper counter..... so in effect he isn't putting much behind the right hand because he's avoiding the momentum that will leave him open for the counter. Instead, it looks like a shortened right hand immediately followed by the defensive position underneath the chin.

    In the top picture Sanchez sold out on the huge right hand..... and kudos to Forbes for having the ability to lean away from it while maintaining his feet in position to deliver the classic counter.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    i think if you have enough time to get hit with that counter, you have enough time to catch it in your right glove.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Sanchez hadn't even finished his right hand swing, when Forbes' counter uppercut was on its way back to him.

    But ok... we'll agree to disagree in that you feel Sanchez had time to "catch it with his right glove."

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Sanchez hadn't even finished his right hand swing, when Forbes' counter uppercut was on its way back to him.

    But ok... we'll agree to disagree in that you feel Sanchez had time to "catch it with his right glove."
    since the counter and catch both occur after the shoulder roll, your cue would be when you feel him shoulder roll, not after you finish throwing your right hand. in other words, when you feel him shoulder roll you have as much time to catch it as he has to throw it.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Sanchez hadn't even finished his right hand swing, when Forbes' counter uppercut was on its way back to him.

    But ok... we'll agree to disagree in that you feel Sanchez had time to "catch it with his right glove."
    since the counter and catch both occur after the shoulder roll, your cue would be when you feel him shoulder roll, not after you finish throwing your right hand. in other words, when you feel him shoulder roll you have as much time to catch it as he has to throw it.

    I'll just give Forbes the credit he deserves by rolling away from the punch and beginning his own counter before the follow through from Sanchez had even concluded.

    In the old B&W you showed, that was a tentative right hand with no ill intent... stopped halfway through in order to protect his own chin.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    I'll just give Forbes the credit he deserves by rolling away from the punch and beginning his own counter before the follow through from Sanchez had even concluded.

    In the old B&W you showed, that was a tentative right hand with no ill intent... stopped halfway through in order to protect his own chin.
    i think marciano brings his forearm over his face because he knew he missed and also because he knew he was fighting archie moore.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    I'll just give Forbes the credit he deserves by rolling away from the punch and beginning his own counter before the follow through from Sanchez had even concluded.

    In the old B&W you showed, that was a tentative right hand with no ill intent... stopped halfway through in order to protect his own chin.
    i think marciano brings his forearm over his face because he knew he missed and also because he knew he was fighting archie moore.

    It was still a weak, tentative right hand. Unusual for Marciano who threw his punches with conviction. Basically pulled up on the punch and assumed a defensive position. Yeah... probably because he knew he was fighting Archie Moore.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    It was still a weak, tentative right hand. Unusual for Marciano who threw his punches with conviction. Basically pulled up on the punch and assumed a defensive position. Yeah... probably because he knew he was fighting Archie Moore.
    however hard you threw your right hand, when you missed, you'd bring your forearm over your face and cover up.



    that was one of the prevailing customs you'd see from the fighters back then but its just another relic now. it is the only thing that will stop you from falling onto a counter right uppercut. that was true then and i think its still true now.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    It was still a weak, tentative right hand. Unusual for Marciano who threw his punches with conviction. Basically pulled up on the punch and assumed a defensive position. Yeah... probably because he knew he was fighting Archie Moore.
    however hard you threw your right hand, when you missed, you'd bring your forearm over your face and cover up.



    that was one of the prevailing customs you'd see from the fighters back then but its just another relic now. it is the only thing that will stop you from falling onto a counter right uppercut. that was true then and i think its still true now.

    Difference being the opponent in this latest gif is going completely backward. In no time was the puncher in danger of getting countered. In the Forbes example, he "textbooked" the defense... then threw a perfectly timed uppercut that would've gotten to the mark even had Sanched tried to cover his chin with his right hand after throwing the punch.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Difference being the opponent in this latest gif is going completely backward. In no time was the puncher in danger of getting countered. In the Forbes example, he "textbooked" the defense... then threw a perfectly timed uppercut that would've gotten to the mark even had Sanched tried to cover his chin with his right hand after throwing the punch.
    i wanted to show you how fast you can bring your forearm over your face to cover up since you can do that much quicker than you are implying.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Difference being the opponent in this latest gif is going completely backward. In no time was the puncher in danger of getting countered. In the Forbes example, he "textbooked" the defense... then threw a perfectly timed uppercut that would've gotten to the mark even had Sanched tried to cover his chin with his right hand after throwing the punch.
    i wanted to show you how fast you can bring your forearm over your face to cover up since you can do that much quicker than you are implying.

    Put a clock on the Forbes-Sanchez gif and measure the time between the Sanchez miss and the Forbes counter.

    Something else to consider is the physics of the punch Sanchez threw. He threw the punch with conviction. Meaning the follow through was a bit long. Forbes expertly remained close enough to where the uppercut was right there.

    If you could slow down the action, you'd see the upper connects even before Sanchez's right hand has finished its follow through.

    The only way Sanchez could've mimicked the glove-to-chin defense you keep mentioning would've been to cut the right hand short, which would've reduced its intended impact.

    He would've been braking the right hand in order to have time to block his chin.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    i think youre exaggerating how much time it takes to bring up your glove.



    you can throw your right hand with follow through and conviction and still get your glove up pretty quick. your arm doesnt really have to travel very much.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    i think youre exaggerating how much time it takes to bring up your glove.



    you can throw your right hand with follow through and conviction and still get your glove up pretty quick. your arm doesnt really have to travel very much.

    Right. Another clip where the counter takes a month to arrive.

    Hey no issues. I stand by my opinion. Instead of saying Sanchez had enough time to get his right hand under his chin... I prefer to commend Forbes for a picture-perfect right uppercut counter.

    Sanchez was perfectly placed (for Forbes) at the end of his punch... he had committed... and hadn't even brought his right hand all the way back when Forbes connected.

    Every other video you've posted the opponent was either walking straight back, or took their time throwing their own counter. Of course the arm-across-the-chin defense will work.

    Most of the time I agree with your technical breakdowns, but this time I don't. No big deal.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    In that last video clip, Forbes counter upper would've still arrived before the guy's glove was tucked under his chin.

    Timing.

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    Default Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Right. Another clip where the counter takes a month to arrive.

    Hey no issues. I stand by my opinion. Instead of saying Sanchez had enough time to get his right hand under his chin... I prefer to commend Forbes for a picture-perfect right uppercut counter.

    Sanchez was perfectly placed (for Forbes) at the end of his punch... he had committed... and hadn't even brought his right hand all the way back when Forbes connected.

    Every other video you've posted the opponent was either walking straight back, or took their time throwing their own counter. Of course the arm-across-the-chin defense will work.

    Most of the time I agree with your technical breakdowns, but this time I don't. No big deal.
    you might be right. but when you miss a right hand, there is a moment for your arm to recoil back and stop that counter, and thats good, because that takes just a moment to do.

    when abreu got hit, i thought he probably ought to have caught that right uppercut.



    the shoulder roll is your cue here that when you miss, that counter may be coming back at you. its a good precaution if it doesnt, and it stops you from getting hit by it if it does.

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