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Thread: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

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  1. #211
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    As long as 1 of those fights is Charlo then good on him.
    charlo would need to move up, i don't think we will see canelo at middle again. avni, caleb & billy joe should be easy to make
    And not one fight to care about there. Charlo has already said he would move up for Canelo. He already chased him out of 2 divisions and made them invent a sanctioned ducking mechanism. Why not chase him out of a 3rd?
    we could weight for them to fight each other. everybody would move for canelo, nothing new there
    So you’re admitting “weight” that he’s going to run. Got it. More Caneloweight fights coming you suppose?

    Edit-run again. Because he’s already run multiple times(nobody is forgetting Caneloweight)
    should have been wait. canelo doesn't seem the type to run from tough opponents. jermall will get some when the time is right
    Let’s cut the back and forth and both admit what holds that fight up. Canelo has always had fast hands and good head movement with sound defense, and that’s only getting better(the head movement and defense). But he has never had fast feet and he is slower of foot since his knee injury.

    The reason the Charlo fight is put off in favor of others is he has movement with a powerful long jab and power in both hands. He’s not as good as Canelo but those factors do not favor Canelo’s current situation. He can handle a mover that can’t keep him honest(BJS) or a plodder that is long and powerful (Smith, Kovalev). But nobody wants a long powerful, fast opponent that can also move. Even if they are better fighters.(GGG and Canelo)

    So people refuse the fight and use “who has he fought, what does he offer”, a guy can’t say “I fought XXX” if XXX won’t fight him. It’s a sick circle of picking fights that look hard, but aren’t actually hard. While ignoring fights that present real problems. I don’t blame Canelo. His resume is stellar. But I do blame media and fans that support the BS. I get the media’s motivation but fans should be honest about it.

    Canelo probably wins the fight, but it should happen so we can see. Literally nobody wants the Avni fight or the BJS fight, the Plant fight presents some issues but his chin will probably let him down. That’s a year gone, in Canelo’s prime, proving nothing.

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    A few truths and good points mixed in with what amounts to throwing in the towel against TIC. Oh well.

    It was the "he's not as good as Canelo" part that was enough to make one physically ill.

    I'll stay on my little island proclaiming that Canelo is a manufactured hype job who is good (no one is disputing that)... but has had every single cotton-pickin' fight calculated and re-calculated in order to eliminate any chance of an upset of the golden apple cart.

    People here (mostly British boxing fans) want to make a big deal about Callum Smith, when in actuality he totally floored me with how ineffective and vulnerable he looked against Canelo.

    Again... hats off to the Canelo Computer Department (CCD), who as always was totally adept at picking out Callum.

    The excuse of not being able to go to 160 to fight Charlo is as thin as deli-cut ham.

    He can't make 160 for Charlo... but let Spence agree to go up there and watch the contract be signed in an hour's time.

    He also can't go up to 175. But let Beterbiev retire or have the invincibility bludgeoned out of him (ala Kovalev)...... and you'll see the CCD churning away, plugging numbers and scenarios into the computer.

    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.

    BTW, I saw a vid on Canelo saying he wanted to fight in Japan.

    What... is there a sick cow there with a belt?

    Give me a fukking break.

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?
    How about Bodou Jack for an example? Got his title vs
    Anthony Dirrell then fought
    George Groves
    Lucian Bute
    James DeGale

    Then went to went to Light Heavyweight for title fights vs
    Nathan Cleverly then
    Adonis Stevenson then lost to
    Marcus Browne and then lost to
    Jean Pascal

  5. #215
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?
    How about Bodou Jack for an example? Got his title vs
    Anthony Dirrell then fought
    George Groves
    Lucian Bute
    James DeGale

    Then went to went to Light Heavyweight for title fights vs
    Nathan Cleverly then
    Adonis Stevenson then lost to
    Marcus Browne and then lost to
    Jean Pascal
    A fine list of fighters no doubt. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have no issue whatsoever with that level of opposition. But were they all the best of the best at the time? I wouldn't begrudge anyone winning a title against anyone. But Cleverly? Best possible challenge out there?
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?
    How about Bodou Jack for an example? Got his title vs
    Anthony Dirrell then fought
    George Groves
    Lucian Bute
    James DeGale

    Then went to went to Light Heavyweight for title fights vs
    Nathan Cleverly then
    Adonis Stevenson then lost to
    Marcus Browne and then lost to
    Jean Pascal
    A fine list of fighters no doubt. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have no issue whatsoever with that level of opposition. But were they all the best of the best at the time? I wouldn't begrudge anyone winning a title against anyone. But Cleverly? Best possible challenge out there?
    It was his first fight at a new weight, a title fight, a real title mind you.

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?
    How about Bodou Jack for an example? Got his title vs
    Anthony Dirrell then fought
    George Groves
    Lucian Bute
    James DeGale

    Then went to went to Light Heavyweight for title fights vs
    Nathan Cleverly then
    Adonis Stevenson then lost to
    Marcus Browne and then lost to
    Jean Pascal
    A fine list of fighters no doubt. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have no issue whatsoever with that level of opposition. But were they all the best of the best at the time? I wouldn't begrudge anyone winning a title against anyone. But Cleverly? Best possible challenge out there?
    It was his first fight at a new weight, a title fight, a real title mind you.
    No one be is disputing or arguing against that. Nothing wrong with it. But was Nathan Cleverly the biggest and best challenge out there. Were you on here or elsewhere saying THAT’S the fight I want to see.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

  8. #218
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?


    Let's start with the "any place" part. How about your own Tyson Fury?

    I'm not a fan of his resume nor his style. But the guy went to Germany to beat Wladimir... and went to the States to beat Wilder. Those are some big "cojones" in my book.

    Now let's talk about challenges. We'll pick a Mexican champion, to dispel any lingering notions in the back of anyone's head.

    How about MAB?

    The guy's a poster boy for picking tough challenges after tough challenges. He follows a DQ loss against the tough Junior Jones with an immediate rematch against Jones and, alas, loses by UD.

    He has two close wins over the rugged Rocky Juarez and follows that up with a UD loss to Juan Manuel Marquez. So what does his do? He goes after Manny Pacquiao, and loses that one by decision also.

    Finally, I'll mention my own all-time favorite fighter (who I rarely mention here)... Trinidad.

    Take a good look at Trinidad's resume and tell me how many fighters:

    • Jumped two weight divisions to get there.
    • Were old and way past their prime.
    • Had been weakened, exposed, or ruined by someone else.
    • Fought in Puerto Rico with Puerto Rican judges (or bought judges).
    • Had to fight at ridiculous catchweights.
    • Were outweighed by Trinidad on fight night by 20+ pounds.
    • Had to wait to be "marinated."


    Case dismissed.

    Then there's another local champion from here... Wilfredo Vazquez Sr. He traveled to so many countries they had to continue stapling pages to his passport.

    There are many other examples... these are just a few.

    Problem is we as fans have allowed the bar to be lowered over the years... and our heroes now have to have the deck stacked in their favor lest they disappoint us and we have to look elsewhere.

  9. #219
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Tyson fury chose to fight Martin Rogan for the Irish title rather than fight David Price for the British title. At the time, Price was everyone's tip for the top and even with the benefit of hindsight, still a far tougher challenge than Rogan. Fury fights to a draw (read wins) against Wilder. Then follows that up with the biggest best challenge out there in Tom Schwarz and Otto Wallin?


    Again, I have no issue whatsoever with the records of MAB and Trinidad. But again, are we saying that winning a vacant title against Richie Wenton and the then defending it against Paul Lloyd was the stiffest test out there? C'mon man.

    Like I said I got no problem with anyone winning a title wherever there is a title to be won. But between Blocker and De La Hoya, is Trinidad's record littered with the crème de la crème? Some good names for sure, but were they really the best on offer?

    Before anyone gets this twisted and thinks I'm shitting on the likes of Trinidad or MAB I'm clearly not. Great fighters, properly great fighters of course they are. But lets not pretend that they did things differently to anyone else. Or rather lets say things didn't pan out for them the way it pans out for everyone else. Because for every great 50/50 matchup, every great win on foreign soil. There are a number of gimmes. Angles, just past their best names, fighters that didn't quite belong in the first place. That's the reality. Not best after best after best. It just doesn't happen and it's as unrealistic to demand it now as it was then or at any other time.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Problem is we as fans have allowed the bar to be lowered over the years... and our heroes now have to have the deck stacked in their favor lest they disappoint us and we have to look elsewhere.
    Yes and no for me. Years ago we had to take promotions word for many things. We didn't have the internet. We couldn't quickly jump on boxrec or youtube and see for ourselves that this 'unbeaten' 'KO artist' that was being imported from Timbuktu was in fact.......dogshit. It was a running joke back in the 90's how Frank Warren could shoehorn 'World Championship Boxing' onto a fight poster by buying in some WBU or worse title.

    We know a dud when we're being sold one.

    In keeping with the previous post I don't see much different going on these days. If we think fighters, or rather managers and promoters back in the day weren't looking at every angle to stack the deck in their guys favour, I think we're barking up the wrong tree.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    You make some good points... and most definitely there's no one out there who constantly fights "best after best" without taking a breather now and then. But you have to look at the whole of a fighter's career, IMO. The Trinidads and the MABs of the world (you could throw in literally dozens and dozens of great champions) mostly sought out the best on a fairly consistent basis without having the benefit (nor wanting the benefit) of an entire computerized hype system where every opponent is carefully timed, calculated, and chosen when the computer spits out 2% chance of a loss against that opponent.

    Why do you think basically ALL of boxing's ATGs have at least one loss on their record (sometimes 5 or 6)? Because they threw caution to the wind. They took on dangerous opponents at their peak. They traveled to other people's countries to take their titles away from them. Hell... I think Orlando Salido is a cheating bastard. But I respected when he came to Puerto Rico to take Juan Manuel Lopez's title away from him in impressive fashion. Talk about going into the lion's den.

    Ok, you mention the Wallins and the Schwartzs of the world. THAT is what frustrates me about Fury. He fights absolute nobodies in between big fights and that is infuriating to many fans. But the Trinidads and the MABs hardly ever did that. Even their "break" fights were fairly decent. Again... it's all about looking at the whole career of fighters. None of the guys mentioned before... not Fury... not Trinidad... not Barrera... not ANY great champion past or present... have had their path carefully preordained since Day One. Ok... there IS one exception. But he himself broke through that anointment and went on to great things. I'm talking about DLH, who you mention. I was never a DLH fan, but respect his resume of opponents, and... although he was always a media darling... he always took on tough, dangerous fights.

    The Canelo Phenomenon is something unlike anything we've ever seen. Go back and look at all the bullet points I listed after mentioning Trinidad. Every single one of those things have been involved in Canelo's career. Why? Because since Day One, it was decided that a handsome, redheaded, rugged Mexican fighter was going to be the future Face of Boxing. Every single one of those bullet points have been a staple of Canelo's development. The traveling part is usually not a big deal... but gets magnified with the Redheaded One. The ONLY time he EVER left the friendly confines of his Las Vegas-Texas-Southern Cal Safe Zone was when he went to MSG to pick off Rocky Fielding for an easy gimme trinket. Really? Can no one ELSE see through that sham?

    I believe the bar HAS been lowered. There may not have been Internet back in the day... but after all the hype jobs in the world, and all the selling by the Don Kings, Bob Arums, and Frank Warrens of the world.... the "proof was in the pudding", like they say... and what mattered was what happened in the ring. Even then fans were able to process and understand if a fighter was merely padding his record with bums... or was sincerely trying to fight the best out there. Back in the day there were ATGs with as many as 10 losses on their records. It didn't matter. Many avenged losses which added to their legacies and greatness.

    Speaking of legacies, here is the problem and hence the bottom line for me:

    In the past (including recent past), legacies were built by actions and decided on by fans and knowledgeable press members. With the likes of Canelo, his legacy was preordained, and carefully being protected and constructed by the likes of the WBC... a groveling, sniveling media... and casuals hungry for a "Rocky-like" figure in real life.

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    FFS..... what the hell happened to the champions who would fight anyone at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANY HOW.
    Who do you have in mind when you say that?

    This idea that a fighter will go from best possible challenge onto best possible challenge is bordering on fantasy isn't it?
    How about Bodou Jack for an example? Got his title vs
    Anthony Dirrell then fought
    George Groves
    Lucian Bute
    James DeGale

    Then went to went to Light Heavyweight for title fights vs
    Nathan Cleverly then
    Adonis Stevenson then lost to
    Marcus Browne and then lost to
    Jean Pascal
    A fine list of fighters no doubt. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have no issue whatsoever with that level of opposition. But were they all the best of the best at the time? I wouldn't begrudge anyone winning a title against anyone. But Cleverly? Best possible challenge out there?
    It was his first fight at a new weight, a title fight, a real title mind you.
    No one be is disputing or arguing against that. Nothing wrong with it. But was Nathan Cleverly the biggest and best challenge out there. Were you on here or elsewhere saying THAT’S the fight I want to see.
    Biggest and best challenge out there is relative. Yes, it was probably the biggest and best fight available to HIM

    This is my thing, people should hold higher guys to higher standards because they have more options.

  13. #223
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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Canelo Alvarez reportedly denied emotional Mexican homecoming against Avni Yildirim – but it could be perfect timing for Billy Joe Saunders

    Saul ‘Canelo’ Alvarez reportedly looks set to miss out on his dream homecoming fight against Avni Yildirim in Mexico next month.

    Instead, the pound-for-pound superstar’s mandatory defence of his newly acquired super-middleweight titles will take place in America on DAZN.

    Canelo defeated Callum Smith last month to claim the WBA and WBC titles at 168lbs and move closer to his dream of becoming an undisputed world champion.

    One of the conditions for contesting the WBC belt was that the winner of the bout would have to defend against mandatory challenger Yildirim within 90 days.

    The original idea was for this bout to be a homecoming for Canelo, however, according to ESPN Deportes, the pandemic has made things too difficult and so Canelo will fight in the US once again.

    The plan is to get Yildirim, a Turkish journeyman who lost his last fight in February 2019 to Anthony Dirrell, out of the way before fighting on Cinco de Mayo weekend in May against one of Billy Joe Saunders, Caleb Plant or Gennady Golovkin.

    British star Saunders holds the WBO strap at 168lbs, but is yet to face the star name he has craved for so long since beating Andy Lee in December 2015 to become WBO middleweight champion.

    Saunders, who is unbeaten from 30 fights, insists he is not content to wait much longer for the Mexican superstar and is considering a fight in February against Demetrius Andrade.

    He told iFL TV: “I’m supremely confident of knocking him [Andeade] out cold, very confident.

    “Me and him have swapped messages on social media. I would love to give him a hiding. Eddie Hearn, let’s make the fight.

    “Let’s get it on, rock and roll. Vacate the WBO 160kbs title, move up, tell the WBO you’re moving up and we can get it on.

    “I can make 160lbs, but why would I want to go back down to 160lbs when all the big money fights are at 168lbs, and all the big talents have come up to 168lbs?

    “I don’t want to be sitting around. Let Canelo do his thing. If he’s fighting in February, I would love to fight him in May.

    “But if he thinks I’m going to be sitting around until May twiddling my thumbs, he’s got another think coming.

    “I’m not going to be doing that. I’m back in the gym, I’m in shape, let’s get it on. Let’s stop beating around the bush and waiting around.

    “I’m going to get sick and tired of waiting around for one of these big fights. I’m getting to the stage that if a big fight doesn’t get made then, ‘Thank you very much, see you later’.

    “I’m in it for the big fights to see how good I am. Andrade, if he moves up, he jumps in front of everyone.

    “The winner of us gets Canelo. It’s a brilliant plan, isn’t it?”

    https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/8...-joe-saunders/
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Canelo Alvarez vs Avni Yildirim is reportedly now a done deal for February 27, with Eddie Hearn set to promote the fight on DAZN.

    The Mexican superstar will defend his WBA and WBC super-middleweight world titles against the Turkish WBC mandatory challenger, who many believe will be vastly overmatched in the bout.

    According to The Athletic, the fight is set to take place on February 27 at the Hard Rock Stadium in Miami.

    Negotiations are underway for Canelo to potentially face WBO champion Billy Joe Saunders after this.

    The super-middleweights previously agreed terms to meet last May, but the pandemic ruined these plans.

    They were unable to resurrect a deal for later in 2020 and so both men instead returned in separate fights in December.

    Canelo secured his free agency and teamed up with Hearn for the Callum Smith fight, which he won to claim the WBA and WBC belts.

    Two weeks prior, Saunders defended his WBO belt by defeating Martin Murray.

    Now, the Mexican will make a quick return to get his WBC mandatory Yildirim out of the way on February 27, before pursuing the other belts in his weight division.

    This puts Saunders firmly in the firing line, as well as IBF champion Caleb Plant.

    The Saunders bout will only be finalised if Billy Joe agrees terms.

    Regarding this, Hearn told The Athletic’s Pug and Copp Podcast: “The path is really clear for Billy Joe Saunders to fight Canelo Alvarez.

    “We’ve just got to try and agree a deal with him to do that.

    “We are at a stage now where we don’t have the guarantees of the major gates and a lot of fighters are taking less money.

    “That’s not really a conversation that you enjoy having with Billy Joe Saunders.

    “He feels that he can win the fight, but he also wants to be rewarded for the fight, I understand.

    “So we’ve got to try and reach a deal with him, which we’re close to doing.

    “He really needs that fight too, but he’s not just gonna take it by any means necessary.

    “But if Billy believes he wins that fight, which I believe he thinks he does, and I think he’s got a great shot in the fight, then he needs to take the opportunity.

    “Hopefully we can get him over the line for that fight on Cinco de Mayo weekend.”

    https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/8...m-eddie-hearn/
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Canelo vs Callum Smith on Dec 19th

    Didn't Yildirimguy lose to Dirrell? Benavidez is listed as his mandatory best I can tell. I will say all in favor of the activity level but this is a blowout.

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