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Thread: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?

    I was wondering why this thread had gotten bumped (LOL).

    This shit is priceless. You just can't make this shit up (hahaha).

    Man..... you have GOT TO BE KIDDING with this ridiculous bullshit. But you know what? It just lends clear and unmistakable evidence that you are IN FACT a desperate Ginger groupie..... desperate to latch on to ANY shred of (albeit nonsensical) examples to try and prove a totally ridiculous point.

    I get so happy when I see shit like this.

    For one thing, you should wash your mouth out with soap for even daring to speak of the great Hagler in such disrespectful terms. While you're at it, you should seek professional help for even hinting at comparing a great warrior from the past with the biggest, most coddled and manufactured diva in the history of boxing.

    But I appreciate your train of thought.
    It's that of a groupie who refuses to give up.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  2. #47
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    you are the only one mentioning canelo here. i know marvin did most of his work coming up but he is frequently mentioned as part of the four kings, the other three all started at lower weights than marvin. his biggest threat around eighty five to eighty seven in my opinion was the bodysnatcher who also began at a lower weight than marvin but marvin bent the knee & took the money to fight an inactive guy instead
    If you go back to the first line I wrote on this subject , you’ll know why I mentioned Canelo.
    But you chose to ignore that.
    this was your first line

    "If this is a way of justifying Canelo v Crawford you are way off."

    you're making assumptions. i'm posting about marvin, nothing about canelo. you also assume i ignored it. i didn't, it just had nothing to do with what i am posting about. bud jumping three weights is completely different from what i'm posting about marvin
    Here we go! So you make a comment about Hagler for no reason at all, and revive a thread that hasn’t seen the light of day for the best part of 4 years hey? I think I have very good reason to “Assume” that it was an indirect comparison to the Canelo / Crawford situation.
    Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but you never answer with a straight “Yes” or “No”, so we have to make our own minds up.
    You should be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions rather than let everyone accuse you.
    But hey, if you want to “say things without saying them” crack on.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    Ginger groupie.....

    For one thing, you should wash your mouth out with soap for even daring to speak of the great Hagler in such disrespectful terms.
    canelo must live rent free in you & primo carnera's head. this discussion is about marvin, the fab four & some guys i would have like to see him fight that might have better challenges. disrespectful? i'm just asking about marvin fighting some smaller guys who he is mainly associated with. chill out titofan, if you have nothing to add to the discussion that's fine but you are the one derailing the discussion with your own comparisons & trying to make out i'm making that argument, that is called a strawman

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    you are the only one mentioning canelo here. i know marvin did most of his work coming up but he is frequently mentioned as part of the four kings, the other three all started at lower weights than marvin. his biggest threat around eighty five to eighty seven in my opinion was the bodysnatcher who also began at a lower weight than marvin but marvin bent the knee & took the money to fight an inactive guy instead
    If you go back to the first line I wrote on this subject , you’ll know why I mentioned Canelo.
    But you chose to ignore that.
    this was your first line

    "If this is a way of justifying Canelo v Crawford you are way off."

    you're making assumptions. i'm posting about marvin, nothing about canelo. you also assume i ignored it. i didn't, it just had nothing to do with what i am posting about. bud jumping three weights is completely different from what i'm posting about marvin
    Here we go! So you make a comment about Hagler for no reason at all, and revive a thread that hasn’t seen the light of day for the best part of 4 years hey? I think I have very good reason to “Assume” that it was an indirect comparison to the Canelo / Crawford situation.
    Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but you never answer with a straight “Yes” or “No”, so we have to make our own minds up.
    You should be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions rather than let everyone accuse you.
    But hey, if you want to “say things without saying them” crack on.
    i have my reasons for commenting about marvin, did you ask my reason? no you just assumed it had something to do with canelo. one of my reasons if you're interested is mike mccallum & was going to go into the rest of the fab four & them not fighting him, another reason was marvin bending the knee for the ray fight

    yes i used an old thread, there's nothing wrong with that is there? the only other thread i could find on marvin was called marvin haggler so i went with this one. i must have missed where it says you must start a new thread for a new discussion

    you know what they say about assumptions

    what question did you ask that i didn't answer? you came in with an assumption not related to what i'm discussing. you made up your mind based on your own assumption

    i asked "does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?"

    "be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions"

    here we go then, i think marvin avoided tougher challenges to cash out against smaller guys towards the end of his career, there's nothing wrong with that but that's how i see it. i also think the rest of the fab four avoided the bodysnatcher. i also don't agree with the notion that marvin retired because he was disgusted by the decision against ray, i think he retired because he was embarrassed that he lost to a smaller guy who was coming of nearly three years of inactivity

    now let's see if you can be brave & have the courage to admit your assumptions were wrong

    for the record, since the canelo v bud fight has been mentioned, i don't like the fight & won't give canelo any credit for a win. i'd prefer to see him fight christian mbilli & then try for a shot at the artur v dmitry two winner & i'd like bud to make a run at jr middle, there are some fantastic match ups there
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

  4. #49
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    Ginger groupie.....

    For one thing, you should wash your mouth out with soap for even daring to speak of the great Hagler in such disrespectful terms.
    canelo must live rent free in you & primo carnera's head. this discussion is about marvin, the fab four & some guys i would have like to see him fight that might have better challenges. disrespectful? i'm just asking about marvin fighting some smaller guys who he is mainly associated with. chill out titofan, if you have nothing to add to the discussion that's fine but you are the one derailing the discussion with your own comparisons & trying to make out i'm making that argument, that is called a strawman

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    you are the only one mentioning canelo here. i know marvin did most of his work coming up but he is frequently mentioned as part of the four kings, the other three all started at lower weights than marvin. his biggest threat around eighty five to eighty seven in my opinion was the bodysnatcher who also began at a lower weight than marvin but marvin bent the knee & took the money to fight an inactive guy instead
    If you go back to the first line I wrote on this subject , you’ll know why I mentioned Canelo.
    But you chose to ignore that.
    this was your first line

    "If this is a way of justifying Canelo v Crawford you are way off."

    you're making assumptions. i'm posting about marvin, nothing about canelo. you also assume i ignored it. i didn't, it just had nothing to do with what i am posting about. bud jumping three weights is completely different from what i'm posting about marvin
    Here we go! So you make a comment about Hagler for no reason at all, and revive a thread that hasn’t seen the light of day for the best part of 4 years hey? I think I have very good reason to “Assume” that it was an indirect comparison to the Canelo / Crawford situation.
    Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but you never answer with a straight “Yes” or “No”, so we have to make our own minds up.
    You should be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions rather than let everyone accuse you.
    But hey, if you want to “say things without saying them” crack on.
    i have my reasons for commenting about marvin, did you ask my reason? no you just assumed it had something to do with canelo. one of my reasons if you're interested is mike mccallum & was going to go into the rest of the fab four & them not fighting him, another reason was marvin bending the knee for the ray fight

    yes i used an old thread, there's nothing wrong with that is there? the only other thread i could find on marvin was called marvin haggler so i went with this one. i must have missed where it says you must start a new thread for a new discussion

    you know what they say about assumptions

    what question did you ask that i didn't answer? you came in with an assumption not related to what i'm discussing. you made up your mind based on your own assumption

    i asked "does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?"

    "be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions"

    here we go then, i think marvin avoided tougher challenges to cash out against smaller guys towards the end of his career, there's nothing wrong with that but that's how i see it. i also think the rest of the fab four avoided the bodysnatcher. i also don't agree with the notion that marvin retired because he was disgusted by the decision against ray, i think he retired because he was embarrassed that he lost to a smaller guy who was coming of nearly three years of inactivity

    now let's see if you can be brave & have the courage to admit your assumptions were wrong

    for the record, since the canelo v bud fight has been mentioned, i don't like the fight & won't give canelo any credit for a win. i'd prefer to see him fight christian mbilli & then try for a shot at the artur v dmitry two winner & i'd like bud to make a run at jr middle, there are some fantastic match ups there
    If you’re gonna throw indirect statements out there and refuse to opine , we’re (yes we, cos i’m clearly not the only one) gonna assume, that’s not unreasonable. Im not psychic and I shouldn’t have to weed out what exactly you mean or your point is .
    You can dredge up an old Thread , no problem, but 4 years later…………most people only do that when there has been something in the news relevant to that.
    You keep believing yourself , whatever floats your boat. 👍
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    My final post on this thread . To everyone, have a look who started this thread way back AND their comment.
    Make your own “ASSUMPTIONS”.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

  6. #51
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    Ginger groupie.....

    For one thing, you should wash your mouth out with soap for even daring to speak of the great Hagler in such disrespectful terms.
    canelo must live rent free in you & primo carnera's head. this discussion is about marvin, the fab four & some guys i would have like to see him fight that might have better challenges. disrespectful? i'm just asking about marvin fighting some smaller guys who he is mainly associated with. chill out titofan, if you have nothing to add to the discussion that's fine but you are the one derailing the discussion with your own comparisons & trying to make out i'm making that argument, that is called a strawman

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    you are the only one mentioning canelo here. i know marvin did most of his work coming up but he is frequently mentioned as part of the four kings, the other three all started at lower weights than marvin. his biggest threat around eighty five to eighty seven in my opinion was the bodysnatcher who also began at a lower weight than marvin but marvin bent the knee & took the money to fight an inactive guy instead
    If you go back to the first line I wrote on this subject , you’ll know why I mentioned Canelo.
    But you chose to ignore that.
    this was your first line

    "If this is a way of justifying Canelo v Crawford you are way off."

    you're making assumptions. i'm posting about marvin, nothing about canelo. you also assume i ignored it. i didn't, it just had nothing to do with what i am posting about. bud jumping three weights is completely different from what i'm posting about marvin
    Here we go! So you make a comment about Hagler for no reason at all, and revive a thread that hasn’t seen the light of day for the best part of 4 years hey? I think I have very good reason to “Assume” that it was an indirect comparison to the Canelo / Crawford situation.
    Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but you never answer with a straight “Yes” or “No”, so we have to make our own minds up.
    You should be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions rather than let everyone accuse you.
    But hey, if you want to “say things without saying them” crack on.
    i have my reasons for commenting about marvin, did you ask my reason? no you just assumed it had something to do with canelo. one of my reasons if you're interested is mike mccallum & was going to go into the rest of the fab four & them not fighting him, another reason was marvin bending the knee for the ray fight

    yes i used an old thread, there's nothing wrong with that is there? the only other thread i could find on marvin was called marvin haggler so i went with this one. i must have missed where it says you must start a new thread for a new discussion

    you know what they say about assumptions

    what question did you ask that i didn't answer? you came in with an assumption not related to what i'm discussing. you made up your mind based on your own assumption

    i asked "does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?"

    "be a bit braver and have the courage of your convictions"

    here we go then, i think marvin avoided tougher challenges to cash out against smaller guys towards the end of his career, there's nothing wrong with that but that's how i see it. i also think the rest of the fab four avoided the bodysnatcher. i also don't agree with the notion that marvin retired because he was disgusted by the decision against ray, i think he retired because he was embarrassed that he lost to a smaller guy who was coming of nearly three years of inactivity

    now let's see if you can be brave & have the courage to admit your assumptions were wrong

    for the record, since the canelo v bud fight has been mentioned, i don't like the fight & won't give canelo any credit for a win. i'd prefer to see him fight christian mbilli & then try for a shot at the artur v dmitry two winner & i'd like bud to make a run at jr middle, there are some fantastic match ups there
    If you’re gonna throw indirect statements out there and refuse to opine , we’re (yes we, cos i’m clearly not the only one) gonna assume, that’s not unreasonable. Im not psychic and I shouldn’t have to weed out what exactly you mean or your point is .
    You can dredge up an old Thread , no problem, but 4 years later…………most people only do that when there has been something in the news relevant to that.
    You keep believing yourself , whatever floats your boat. 👍
    i didn't make any indirect statements, i asked a question & i never refused to give my opinion on my question

    it is not unreasonable to assume, i agree. no one has inferred that you are psychic but if you fail to comprehend a straight forward question then that is on you

    so i can dredge up an old thread but it needs to be in a timeframe that suits you or have some relevant news? just because most people do something doesn't mean i have to

    what floats my boat is noting that you weren't brave enough or had enough courage to admit your assumption was wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    My final post on this thread . To everyone, have a look who started this thread way back AND their comment.
    Make your own “ASSUMPTIONS”.
    yes i started the thread & i still think marvin is a legend, one of the best middleweights ever, that doesn't mean i have to agree with every decision & statement that was made in someone's career
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Sorry, I haven't followed all the responses closely so this may have already been said:

    Might there not be a chance that you dredged up the thread in a thinly veiled effort to defend all the criticism Canelo is getting toward the end of career? Seeking to draw a comparison between the two? (heresy)

  8. #53
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    & marvin lost to a smaller guy who had been inactive for almost three years
    Some say lost, some say royally screwed. Arguably one of the most debated decisions at the highest level over the last number of decades. And the smaller fighter competed with and held W's with the same greats who make up the same Fab four era we always celebrate and respect...plus some. And would go onto do it again post Hagler.

    As much as I like McCallum, in hindsight I think some of the "boogeyman" and flat avoided talk with Duran, Hagler etc can get carried away. Many circumstances let alone basic timing. Hagler was not a bend the knee kinda man. He fought an established legend and fellow Fab 4 member in Leonard. McCallum was still very under the radar and winning a dropped belt on a Hagler undercard. He broke out a bit with Julian Jackson network KO still at 154, when Hagler was 3 months away from fighting Mugabi before it was originally postponed. Great fight McCallum but he literally had done nothing at middle. That was his move to make but he wasn't well established and did not make it. And as we found out when he finally walked into the division, he was thoroughly out boxed by Kalambay. Full respect Body Snatcher. Kalambay was very solid and Mike got him back a few years later. To the original question out of left field that bumped a condolence thread , no Hagler doesn't get a pass as he never needed one in the first place.
    Last edited by Spicoli; 01-17-2025 at 05:07 AM.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Sorry, I haven't followed all the responses closely so this may have already been said:

    Might there not be a chance that you dredged up the thread in a thinly veiled effort to defend all the criticism Canelo is getting toward the end of career? Seeking to draw a comparison between the two? (heresy)
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

  10. #55
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Sorry, I haven't followed all the responses closely so this may have already been said:

    Might there not be a chance that you dredged up the thread in a thinly veiled effort to defend all the criticism Canelo is getting toward the end of career? Seeking to draw a comparison between the two? (heresy)
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    which smaller guys are you referring to

  11. #56
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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    & marvin lost to a smaller guy who had been inactive for almost three years
    Some say lost, some say royally screwed. Arguably one of the most debated decisions at the highest level over the last number of decades. And the smaller fighter competed with and held W's with the same greats who make up the same Fab four era we always celebrate and respect...plus some. And would go onto do it again post Hagler.

    Hagler was not a bend the knee kinda man.

    McCallum was still very under the radar

    Great fight McCallum but he literally had done nothing at middle.

    when he finally walked into the division, he was thoroughly out boxed by Kalambay. Full respect Body Snatcher. Kalambay was very solid and Mike got him back a few years later.

    To the original question, no Hagler doesn't get a pass as he never needed one in the first place.
    marvin bent the knee to twelve rounds, bigger gloves & ring size to get the ray fight didn't he?

    mike was still under the radar, i think i originally posted eighty five to eighty seven but i think towards the end of eighty six or instead of the ray fight in april eighty seven, mike would have been catching marvin at the right time

    respectfully, john, tommy & ray had done nothing at middle

    yeah sumbu got mike, that was in eighty eighty, sumbu could be very difficult at his best

    i disagree, i give marvin a pass as he did most of his work earlier

    i wasn't present at the time but what was the feeling & thoughts on the marvin v ray fight? with ray's inactivity & moving up was it seen as competitive going in? i guess the wbc were good with sanctioning it even with ray being out for three years with their hands out as usual. different times, has anyone got a shot at a title in recent times after that long out?
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Sorry, I haven't followed all the responses closely so this may have already been said:

    Might there not be a chance that you dredged up the thread in a thinly veiled effort to defend all the criticism Canelo is getting toward the end of career? Seeking to draw a comparison between the two? (heresy)
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    which smaller guys are you referring to
    mainly the other three of the fab four, especially ray
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Sorry, I haven't followed all the responses closely so this may have already been said:

    Might there not be a chance that you dredged up the thread in a thinly veiled effort to defend all the criticism Canelo is getting toward the end of career? Seeking to draw a comparison between the two? (heresy)
    does marvin get a pass for fighting smaller guys & cashing out towards the end of his career?
    which smaller guys are you referring to
    mainly the other three of the fab four, especially ray

    right. all-world, all-time hearns, leonard, duran. what do you mean by cashing out?

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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    yes all time greats but how would you rate them at middle all time? by cashing out i mean marvin took money over better challenges, especially in ray's case. as master said herol graham who had fought three times in eighty six or for me the bodysnatcher who had fought four times in eighty six, would have, on paper been seen as better challenges than an almost three year inactive ray. he also bowed down to ray's requests for twelve rounds, bigger gloves & ring size to get the fight. i wasn't around at the time so i was asking spicoli what the feeling was surrounding the marvin v ray fight. was it seen as a gimmick? i just can't get my head around it, taking nothing away from ray, an all time great but with large gaps in his activity, i just can't see the public thinking it was a competitive match up. ray had only fought once in five years. i couldn't see the boxing fans of today accepting a dominant champion facing an almost three years inactive challenger, who's last fight was a division below (almost two) & only having fought once in five years as a competitive challenger, no matter how good that fighter was. i guess vitali did something similar against sam peter but they were the same weight & vitali had emetrius status & sam peter was no marvin, ray had never fought at middleweight i think, i guess the wbc just took their envelope
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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    Default Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

    Hagler-Leonard was a fight I never understood, to be fair. I also felt that wasn't the same Hagler in there that fought Hearns. But the fight before Leonard was against John "The Beast" Mugabi. A dangerous, undefeated, avoided fighter who was 25-0, all by knockout at the time of the fight. It was a brutal war. So toward the end of his career, he took on a dangerous opponent who people thought had a legitimate chance to get Hagler out of there.

    Hagler-Hearns was a classic, widely regarded as one of the best 3-round fights in history. Though Hearns came up from super welter, he was 6 foot 1, and his body was better suited for the higher weights, where he ended up fighting.

    Prior to that it was Mustafa Hamsho and Juan Domingo Roldan, two very rugged middleweights.

    If anything, Hagler ended his career in a manner befitting his great, HOF career. Again... the Leonard fight was strange to me. Both the matchup, the fight, and the outcome.

    But none of this lessens Hagler's legacy, nor IMO requires anyone giving him "a pass."

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