RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

[Master]

The short answer is no, Hagler fought legends which enhanced his legacy by taking on Duran, Hearns and Leonard.

Duran was the first fight for Hagler where he received huge money and mainstream attention. Roberto went on to become champion when he beat Blade Barkley.

The Hearns fight was built for ages and Tommy went on to higher weights to become champion. It also provided the greatest 3 rounds ever.

Whilst he may have lost to Leonard he had the last laugh when he stayed retired to the frustration of Ray. Leonard went on and got embarrassed by Norris and Macho Man.

[TIC]

The short answer is no, Hagler fought legends which enhanced his legacy by taking on Duran, Hearns and Leonard.

Duran was the first fight for Hagler where he received huge money and mainstream attention. Roberto went on to become champion when he beat Blade Barkley.

The Hearns fight was built for ages and Tommy went on to higher weights to become champion. It also provided the greatest 3 rounds ever.

Whilst he may have lost to Leonard he had the last laugh when he stayed retired to the frustration of Ray. Leonard went on and got embarrassed by Norris and Macho Man.

"Hagler fought legends which enhanced his legacy by taking on Duran, Hearns and Leonard."
yes he fought legends that enhanced his legacy, i'll give you tommy but roberto & ray were cash grabs rather than real challenges

"Duran was the first fight for Hagler where he received huge money and mainstream attention. Roberto went on to become champion when he beat Blade Barkley."
huge money & mainstream attention yes but not the biggest challenges & that was a great night for roberto against the blade

tommy was a beast at welter & jr middle & i think he naturally fit into middleweight

marvin lost to an almost three year inactive ray who had only fought once in the last five years & was basically moving up from welter. it's a pity marvin had to ben the knee to get the ray fight, giving up to twelve rounds, glove size & ring size. if that fight was over fifteen rounds marvin stops ray in my opinion. did ray get embarrassed or was he just spent by those fights?

i think by the time of the roberto fight marvin had cleaned out all the challenges at middle & was looking for big money against the guys below him. nothing wrong with that. we'd all take easier assignments for bigger pay. so yes i give marvin a pass for that. i remember tommy getting injured & causing the fight to be delayed at one stage. imagine if after the tommy fight if marvin instead chose to move up, looking for the biggest challenge & went in against michael spinks

[Master]

No body knows what would happen when Hagler faced the legends in boxing.
Just as you say it would be good to have seen Hagler against Spinks at light heavy, it was historic to see Hagler v Hearns/Duran/Leonard.

For some reason Duran gave Hagler quite a challenge and Leonard beat him in a disputed decision. The 12 rounds as to having 15 did cost Hagler, also starting in an orthodox stance for the early part of the fight. Leonard trained hard in secret for the years he was out perfecting his fight against Marvin. Ray was a crafty manipulator who essentially stole the fight.

Every boxer’s career could be critiqued but Hagler’s is less so as I think he did everything he possibly could in the time he was champion.

[TitoFan]

No body knows what would happen when Hagler faced the legends in boxing.

THAT... to me is what separates the true great fighters from the manufactured ones. Nobody knew what would happen when Hagler faced Hearns. Nobody knew what would happen when Hagler faced Mugabi.

The same applies to the other great ones. Nobody knew what would happen when Leonard faced Hearns... each time. Absolutely NOBODY knew what would happen when Leonard faced Duran... each time.

You can go on and on and on. The truly great ones went into fights not knowing what would happen... and neither did the fans.

I miss those days.

[TIC]

No body knows what would happen when Hagler faced the legends in boxing.

Just as you say it would be good to have seen Hagler against Spinks at light heavy, it was historic to see Hagler v Hearns/Duran/Leonard.

by the legends are you still talking roberto, tommy & ray? roberto had to be a big underdog, a great lightweight, his place as an all time welterweight great needs discussion. on his night he would be tough for any welter in history, just not a lot of work there compared to the divisions history. marvin was a dominant middlweight champion. tommy i think would have been seen as much more of a threat with his power but his chin had already let him down at welter. ray was inactive for almost three years & moving up, i think he would have been a big underdog as well. i would guess marvin was seen as a solid favourite in all three of those fights

a marvin v michael spinks fight would have been seen as a massive challenge & risk for marvin. it may have been historic to see marvin v tommy, roberto & ray but marvin was the favourite going into all of those fights. marvin took the easier fights for better money

Nobody knew what would happen when Hagler faced Mugabi.

my understanding is that john was seen as untested & unproven. marvin was the favourite in that fight

[Master]

Just because Marvin was favourite in his fights does not mean they were not impressive wins. He cleared his old challengers and started taking on the new and therefore untested contenders.

Marvin's record stands to good scrutiny and impressive by most standards.

[TIC]

Just because Marvin was favourite in his fights does not mean they were not impressive wins. He cleared his old challengers and started taking on the new and therefore untested contenders.

Marvin's record stands to good scrutiny and impressive by most standards.

wins v challenges. you are talking wins (he lost to ray) i am talking challenges. you said yourself he avoided herol graham & i think michael spinks would have been a bigger challenge than anyone marvin fought from roberto duran onwards. as i've also pointed out mike mccallum would have also been seen as a challenge heading into eighty seven over an almost three year inactive smaller guy

marvin is a legend & his record holds a lot of good work but the more i look at the ray leonard fight the worse it looks. even back then the public must have been questioning how legitimate of a challenge it was. if a dominant champion today decided to defend against a smaller fighter coming of an almost three year layoff, he'd be crucified

[TitoFan]

Just because Marvin was favourite in his fights does not mean they were not impressive wins. He cleared his old challengers and started taking on the new and therefore untested contenders.

Marvin's record stands to good scrutiny and impressive by most standards.

wins v challenges. you are talking wins (he lost to ray) i am talking challenges. you said yourself he avoided herol graham & i think michael spinks would have been a bigger challenge than anyone marvin fought from roberto duran onwards. as i've also pointed out mike mccallum would have also been seen as a challenge heading into eighty seven over an almost three year inactive smaller guy

marvin is a legend & his record holds a lot of good work but the more i look at the ray leonard fight the worse it looks. even back then the public must have been questioning how legitimate of a challenge it was. if a dominant champion today decided to defend against a smaller fighter coming of an almost three year layoff, he'd be crucified

You say he "avoided Herol Graham", and it's true that he was stripped of his WBA title for choosing to fight Leonard instead.

But let's talk real here. "Avoided" carries the implication that Hagler was somehow scared of Graham. WHEN? When was Hagler ever accused of ducking or avoiding anybody because he was scared? Your depiction of Hagler's mentality at that time leaves a lot to be desired. Excuse me for bringing up Canelo again. But it doesn't escape me that the timing of your accusations of Hagler coincides pretty much with the ton of criticism Canelo is receiving for picking MUCH SMALLER fighters, while ignoring the white elephant in his own division (doesn't matter if Benavidez moved on... he sat at 168 waiting enough time for Canelo to make a move).

Then you bring up Michael Spinks. Damn... Reaching for straws has never been so obvious. Hagler was strictly a middleweight for practically his entire career. Why the hell would he venture going up to light heavy to fight Spinks? That one just falls under its own weight.

All of this to paint a picture of Hagler that will make Canelo look better by comparison. It's so freaking obvious...

I've already agreed that the Leonard fight was strange, and IMO did nothing to help Hagler's legacy. But at the same time I'm objective enough to know that Hagler was nothing if not a warrior. He had no "0" to protect, as he had suffered two losses earlier in his career. Hagler was a guy who fought whoever they put in front of him. None of the stupid shenanigans Canelo has played throughout most of his career. Putting Hagler and Canelo in the same sentence (if that's what you intend to do), is ludicrous.

You'll answer that this isn't at all about Canelo. Really?

Hagler's been dead now, what... almost four years? And we have to sit here and debate whether he was a ducker late in his career? Why? Because Canelo is getting all sorts of deserved heat?

Hey listen... I've been a boxing fan most of my life. Yes, there are plenty of people more knowledgeable about boxing than me. But what I DO know, I'm pretty certain about.

Hagler's last five fights were: Roldan, Hamsho, Hearns, Mugabi, Leonard.

Three tough, rugged, and dangerous middleweights... an up-and-coming super welter whose body and physique were MUCH better suited for 160 and above (and who was EXTREMELY dangerous as a knockout puncher)... and for some reason... Leonard.

In at least three of those last five fights, he could've easily been the victim of a knockout loss himself. Translation: He... took... risks.

Something my (cough) "favorite" fighter is genetically adverse of doing.