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Thread: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Can't root for Djokovic.

    I don't think Nadal can beat Djokovic on grass if fully fit so carrying a potential injury that needs to withstand two more hard matches.....

    I like Kyrgios bad boy attitude but sadly to carry it off you have to be one of the best and he's never done it results wise. And although I'd rather have Rafa win I think Kyrgios has a better chance of beating Djokovic as he'll be fully fit.

    As for that British\ South African bloke he's done well to get here but I see nothing other than Djok in 3 sets. Feel free to prove me wrong.

    Perhaps Nadal can sprinkle a bit of clay on the surface discreetly hidden in his pockets (think Andy getting rid of the rocks in the Shawshank rec yard). That could change everything.
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    And there you go. Rafa withdraws.

    At least Kyrgios will be very fresh for the final
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Perhaps Nadal can sprinkle a bit of clay on the surface discreetly hidden in his pockets (think Andy getting rid of the rocks in the Shawshank rec yard). That could change everything.


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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Wanted Krigios to win but Novak just too strong.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/tenn...1d7e6a91b197bd
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Kyrgios is going to win his share of majors for sure. Huge talent.

    But today it seemed like he should've had a cut man and trainer in his corner. He kept jawing at something/someone during the last few games of the match.

    I wonder if tennis is headed into a trash-talking era.

    BTW... IMHO...

    Novak - GOAT
    Rafa - #2 (grudgingly)
    Roger - #3

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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    I said a few years ago is going to be strange given Roger will likely end up the least slams.

    But i stand by Roger as GOAT going by how I wrote how the slams I believe would go all in their prime. Roger Wimbledon and US. Nadal French and Djok the Australian.
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Kyrgios is really physically talented, but mentally very weak. He played and served superbly, probably the best he could have done and he still got pretty comprehensively outplayed. That’s what happens when you’re up against one of the best players to ever pick up a raquet

    He was constantly looking for someone else to blame though. A real sign of weakness that would have delighted Djokovic
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    I hadn't seen Kyrgios play before... and he really seems to have an unlimited ceiling as far as talent goes.

    But I read up on him, and man... he seems like a bit of a dick.

    It's ok to have youthful exuberance and all that. But c'mon...

  9. #54
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    I watched the Borg Mcenroe film again at the weekend - well just the ending really.

    And now after looking at his performance timeline I think I may have been completely dismissive of Borg when disregarding him in the GOAT argument.

    Active for just 9 seasons and won 11 slams. Only played in the Australian once and had to skip a French open due to contractual reasons at a time he was as dominant as Nadal on that surface. Ok he never won a US Open but got to 4 finals in that period at a when Connors and Mcenroe were favourites over there.

    Yes he played in a time of wooden rackets and a very different game and era but just saying I maybe should not have disregarded him so quickly.
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Borg was a favourite of mine but retired early for some strange reason.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    As the curtain fell on a fraught, complex Wimbledon, John McEnroe was not among those making a beeline for the champions’ ball. Famously, he sent the All England Club into apoplexy when, after his cathartic triumph over Bjorn Borg in 1981, he boycotted the black-tie event. It is comforting to hear that, 41 years on, he harbours not the slightest regret about it.

    “Chrissie Hynde and her band were coming over to my place, Draycott House in Chelsea,” he reflects. “It was low-key, just the way I wanted it, with no paparazzi. I asked myself: ‘Why the hell would I want to go to some stuffy dinner and hang out with a bunch of people three times my age?’ I did ask my dad if I should make an appearance. He said: ‘I don’t know.’ And so I thought: ‘Forget it, I’m going to hang out with my friends.’ The next morning, I walked out to my car, thinking all was well and good. All of a sudden, 15 cameras were popping in my face.”

    McEnroe, 63, is today such a fixture of the Wimbledon furniture that he turns up to Sue Barker’s farewell in a green suit and pink shirt, blending in perfectly with the flowerbeds. But there remains a side to his character that is incorrigibly rock 'n' roll, where name-dropping Hynde and The Pretenders is a natural impulse. Even when hopping between BBC and ESPN commentary booths on the final weekend of the Championships, he found time for a cameo on the British Summer Time stage in Hyde Park, playing guitar with Pearl Jam on Rockin’ in the Free World.

    It is a thrilling throwback to the days when, as the original enfant terrible of tennis, long before anyone had heard of Nick Kyrgios, McEnroe could somehow combine winning seven major titles with an early Eighties lifestyle of shameless New York excess. “It was a hell of a time, I will say that,” he smiles. “It’s nice to feel like you can have your cake and eat it, too. It can catch up to you, more quickly than you realise. People have only understood recently that opiates are an absolute horror show. Then, you didn’t know about these drugs – their use was a lot more frequent. When I walked off court, people would hand me a beer. Now, players jump straight into an ice bath.”

    For McEnroe, the ageless wonder of Novak Djokovic, now a 21-time slam champion at the age of 36, almost defies comprehension. The Serb’s seventh Wimbledon triumph extended a sequence where, since the 2005 Australian Open, 59 of 69 majors have been won by Djokovic, Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.

    “You couldn't make this up in your wildest dreams,” he says. “These guys have done something that no one anticipated happening. We were happy still to be playing at 30. I made it until two months before my 34th birthday and I thought I was pushing it, that I was hanging on too long. But these guys are still playing as well as they've ever played. That’s the part I don't understand. I always use the phrase: ‘The older I get, the better I used to be.’ This started in my late 20s, for God’s sake. So, I have to look at the Big Three and enjoy it. We all do.”

    Djokovic might be three times as decorated as McEnroe in the slam stakes, but does he truly have more fun? When you watch the riveting documentary McEnroe, released in cinemas on Friday, you start to wonder. While the film does not sugar the messier elements of his life – the chaos of his marriage to Tatum O’Neal, the child Oscar-winner who later became a drug addict, or the strained relationship with his father, John Snr – it also finds an irresistible mystique in his restless, brooding nature. A recurring motif is the sight of McEnroe on a night-time walk through Manhattan, steam rising from the manhole covers as he waits for the sun to rise again.

    “There’s a grittiness about New York, and that represents my personality pretty closely,” he explains. “All through high school, I would ride the subway, experiencing life the way a typical New Yorker would. Now you don’t go five minutes without knowing where your kid is. But the energy of New York, it meant that I wasn’t just in this elitist bubble – which tennis is, too much. When I first travelled to London, I did see a little of the King’s Road and the punk scene, but mainly, I remember being shocked at how polite and well-behaved everyone was.”

    'Can we talk about tennis, not who my girlfriend is?'

    The mysteries of the English class system also bewildered him. After 40 years spent transforming himself from a super-brat into an establishment figure in tennis, is he still struck by these? Or has he come to accept such eccentricities? “I would say both. I still don’t understand it, but it’s above my pay grade. I do think that there’s still that whole class thing going on.”

    One certainty about McEnroe and Wimbledon was that the old codes of decorum never stayed intact for long. While everyone remembers his hectoring of umpires and his contempt for strait-laced Wimbledon protocol, the antipathy he aroused even spilled over into the press room.

    In 1981, when one British reporter dared to ask McEnroe about his then girlfriend, Stacy Margolin, long tensions between Fleet Street’s finest and their transatlantic counterparts gave way to a full-blown fist-fight, with Nigel Clarke of The Daily Express standing on a chair to punch downwards. The latest film captures the moment in all its glory.

    “It reached the stage where I would say: ‘Look, can we talk about tennis, not who my girlfriend is? That’s not really what I’m here for.’ It was to the point of absurdity. And then, finally, this American journalist I knew a little said: ‘If you keep asking, we’re going to ask him to leave.’ It wasn’t me walking out. The British guy was frustrated. It was funny that it got to that level – I had a good laugh over it.”

    One theme that soon emerges about McEnroe is his astounding eye for detail. Whenever he visits Paris, for example, he is acutely disturbed by the memory of losing the 1984 French Open final to Ivan Lendl from two sets up. “Every year,” he admits, “I have a couple of nightmares where it gets into my head.” His second wife, the rock singer Patty Smyth, emphasises his exceptionally acute visual sense, which would enable him to analyse the court much like a chess board.

    Ivan Lendl won 3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5

    Was this capacity innate, or simply enhanced through tennis? “That’s a good question. I’m not 100 per cent sure. I used to be quite closed-minded. My brain had always been that of a sports jock. But when my late, great buddy, Vitas Gerulaitis, started taking me to art galleries and showing me how to play guitar, it opened up a whole new world to me.”

    It is an illustration of McEnroe’s significance as a cultural figure that he even earns a tribute in the biopic from Keith Richards. As a player, a commentator and a friend to the gods of rock, he has never lost his ability to captivate. On the BBC, he retains that rare talent for making even the most unappetising contest seem a must-watch – a gift that his arch-rival Bjorn Borg never emulated.

    “Bjorn was calling my final against Chris Lewis for NBC, at Wimbledon in ’83,” he laughs. “Chris was unheralded, unseeded. The presenters asked Bjorn: ‘What do you think is going to happen in the match?’ He just said: ‘Chris Lewis has no chance.’ You do want to keep people interested. A little entertainment can go a long way in a one-on-one sport like tennis. Believe me, we need more of it.”

    McEnroe was devastated by the suddenness of Borg’s retirement from tennis, aged 26. “An absolute tragedy,” he declares. It is why he cannot fathom Ash Barty’s decision to step away from the sport at 25, as the women’s world No 1. “It feels like something’s off,” he says. “It just doesn’t seem right to me.” He might earn a fortune today as tennis’ expert extraordinaire, but the road to finding meaning since his days as the undisputed best has been long and tortuous.

    “Not many people peak in their career at 25, then try to find a way through to where they can be happier than they were,” he acknowledges, with his usual bracing candour. “All things considered, it was a great way to make a living. But as a player, I ended up never getting back to the same level. That sucked.”

    ‘McEnroe’ is in cinemas from Friday

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainm...ccd517ba0db399
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Even McEnroe acknowledges Novak is the GOAT.

    The era of McEnroe and Borg was a fun time. Never a rivalry such as that one. It was kind of like Magic and Bird, for those who may know something about professional basketball.

    But I'm glad that Novak, as joyless as he might seem, exists. And even more glad that he's likely to surpass Nadal in the race for most career majors.

    As I've said before, nothing personal against Nadal. I just refuse to acknowledge a clay court specialist as GOAT of a sport that is played on various surfaces.

    Take away half of those French Opens... and his numbers become, if not pedestrian... squarely behind both Novak and Roger.

  13. #58
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Should never have made grass length and ball changes at Wimbledon to suit baseline game. Bring back serve and volley I say !
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Roger Federer to retire after Laver Cup in September

    Roger Federer, one of the greatest players of all time, will retire from top-level tennis after the Laver Cup in London this month.

    The 20-time Grand Slam champion has not played since Wimbledon 2021, after which he had a third knee operation.

    "My body's message to me lately has been clear," Swiss Federer, 41, said.

    "I have played more than 1,500 matches over 24 years. Now I must recognise when it is time to end my competitive career."

    He added: "To the game of tennis, I love you and will never leave you."


    Federer has struggled with a knee problem for the past three years that has restricted him to only three of the 11 Grand Slams staged since the start of 2020.

    He has not played a competitive match since losing to Hubert Hurkacz in the quarter-finals at Wimbledon last summer.

    He subsequently announced he needed more surgery on his knee having previously had two operations in 2020.

    Only Spain's Rafael Nadal, with 22 majors, and Serbia's Novak Djokovic, with 21, have more men's Grand Slam singles titles than Federer.

    "This is a bittersweet decision because I will miss everything the tour has given me," added Federer.

    "But, at the same time, there is so much to celebrate. I consider myself one of the most fortunate people on Earth. I was given a special talent to play tennis and I did it at a level that I never imagined for much longer than I ever thought possible."

    As well as thanking his family, support team and fans, Federer also thanked his opponents from a golden era of the men's game.

    "I was lucky enough to play so many epic matches that I will never forget. We battled fairly, with passion and intensity, and I always tried my best to respect the history of the game.

    "I feel extremely grateful. We pushed each other, and together we took tennis to new levels."

    Federer made his professional debut aged 16 in 1998 and won his first Grand Slam title at Wimbledon in 2003.

    He ends his career with a record total of eight men's singles victories at the All England Club.

    Federer's final Grand Slam triumph came at the 2018 Australian Open when, aged 36, he became the second-oldest man to win a major singles title in the Open era.

    After rising to world number one for the first time in 2004, he spent 310 weeks as the leading player on the ATP Tour during his career - a record until he was surpassed by Djokovic in February 2021.

    He won Olympics doubles gold for Switzerland alongside Stan Wawrinka at Beijing 2008 and singles silver at London 2012 when Britain's Andy Murray reversed his Wimbledon final defeat from the previous month.

    He was also part of the Swiss team that won the Davis Cup for the first time in 2014 and lifted a record six ATP Finals titles.

    The three-day Laver Cup, staged at the O2 Arena in Greenwich, begins on Friday, 23 September.

    Federer is due to join Murray, Nadal, Djokovic, Greece's Stefanos Tsitsipas and Norway's Casper Ruud in a Europe team taking on a team representing the rest of the world.

    He was part of the group that created and organised the tournament, first held in 2017.

    Federer's retirement announcement comes less than two weeks after 23-time Grand Slam singles champion Serena Williams played what is expected to be the final match of her career at the US Open.

    Federer is the most successful grass-court male player of all-time on the back of his unparalleled Wimbledon success, with his last triumph at the All England Club coming in 2017.

    The Australian Open was the next most successful major tournament for the Swiss, winning six titles at Melbourne Park between 2004 and 2018.

    He claimed all five of his US Open titles in a row between 2004 and 2008, while his one and only triumph on the French Open clay came in 2009.

    Federer reached 31 Grand Slam finals in total, doing so for the last time at Wimbledon in 2019 when he lost to Djokovic having held two championship points.



    The chairman of the All England Lawn Tennis Club, Ian Hewitt, congratulated Federer on a "truly remarkable career".

    "He will forever be celebrated as one of our greatest Wimbledon champions, having lifted the trophy eight times from his 22 appearances at the All England Club," Hewitt added.

    "I hope that, in retirement, Roger can look back with enormous satisfaction and pride on all his accomplishments and the high esteem in which he is held by the tennis community."

    Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro, who defeated Federer to win the 2009 US Open, paid fulsome tribute to his rival.

    "I love you Roger," he tweeted.

    "Thank you for everything you've done in tennis and with myself. Tennis world will never be the same without you."

    ATP chairman Andrea Gaudenzi said: "He spearheaded an incredible new era of growth and elevated the popularity of our sport. Few athletes have transcended their field in such a manner."

    Lawn Tennis Association chief executive Scott Lloyd said: "Nobody who saw him play will forget his grace, elegance and poise on court."

    We will, of course, remember those 20 Grand Slam titles, and those 237 weeks in a row as the world number one.

    We will also remember Federer for his movement, his forehand and his serve.

    But he will be remembered most of all for the elegance with which he played the sport he loved: a style and grace which endeared him to so many.

    We had been dreaming of the prospect of Federer making a comeback at the age of 41.

    Illogical, probably, after four knee operations. But such mesmeric gifts leave little room for logic.

    Wimbledon, or his home town of Basel - where, as a ballboy, his passion for professional tennis was stirred - would have been perfect places to say farewell.

    But at least in London next week he will have the company of Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray: rivalries that have further enriched his career.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/62911876
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  15. #60
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    Default Re: So who's the male tennis GOAT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    But he will be remembered most of all for the elegance with which he played the sport he loved: a style and grace which endeared him to so many.


    Out goes Roger..... in comes Kyrgios.


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