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Thread: The Cleveland Indians are no more

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  1. #1
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    Default The Cleveland Indians are no more

    Nope. Starting next year they will be known as the Cleveland Guardians.

    Strike another blow for the PC brigade and their quest to rename sports teams, pancake syrups, etc., as they seek to eradicate any and all names they consider offensive.

    The Indians (Major League Baseball), who have had that name since 1915, are a revered and historical professional sports franchise in the U.S., much like the Washington Redskins were in the National Football League.

    Oh well. In the Indians case, I always thought the team mascot (Chief Yahoo) was a bit demeaning.




    Gotta wonder what will happen to that favorite movie of mine, Major League (1989).

    I still think people would be a lot better off focusing on more important things, like systemic and institutional racism, instead of changing things that in the end will never make any difference.

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    Yeh in the case of Cleveland it's been a very long time coming compared to some other teams and organizations. I'll say this if anyone has received a consistent and all around shaft and boot on the neck from our wonderful society it's the Native man and woman and I can't lump it entirely in with the last couple of decades of PC brigade pushes and some of the more trifling stuff like syrup and rice brands. Hollywood spent a literal Century whitewashing screen bios, movies and roles non stop until what..Tonto? This seemed to really re fire during the 70's as far as name change meeting head on with the American Indian protest movement. They changed their name a half dozen times prior and it's weird how some in high political Ivory towers have run to this name change in their long line of culture war chum. The default is to run with 'the team was founded and named in honor of a former Indian player' but that digging deeper it reads like Louis Sockalexis was treated largely like a living caricature and early mascot himself by media and fans of the day. By all accounts a batting and fielding phenom yet across the Nation press couldn't even see fit to mention his name in the naming of the team that he was (now) sighted for. I dunno I don't see a problem with it, keep it the same or change it fine. Willing to bet once the season opens majority of fans will only really clamor for a winning season and pennant. The mascots themselves have always been in bad taste more so than a title to me. A literal cartoon character emphasizing the racial stereotypes. College mascots in full headdress and running around with spears ffs. Atlanta Braves stadium filled with thousands doing a Tomahawk chop war-chant . It's just..dude. Dunno. Nixing the Chief Wahoo mascot was a no brainer if anything and possibly that was a good time to agree the necessary changes were complete but hey I'm just some white dude 'living the dream .

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    You know there's a long list of teams that will have to follow suit, right?

    Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Chiefs, Chicago Blackhawks, Florida State Seminoles, Golden State Warriors...

    Where's that fine line that separates the genuine from the absurd?

    How long before someone objects to Yankees? Celtics? Vikings?

    Nah... sign me up to that group of people who'd rather direct anti-racism efforts to more meaningful endeavors.

    No one argues against the racist stereotypes of the past.

    But changing "Aunt Jemima" pancake syrup to "Pearl Milling Company" isn't going to further the cause of black people in this country, anymore than slapping a racing car decal on an old jalopy makes it go any faster.

    Never been one to embrace superficial changes and then claim complex, deep-rooted problems have been solved.

    In fact... it's kind of dangerous, if you ask me.... as it brings on a false sense of complacency like the job has already been done.

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    This seems reasonable.

    Racist name of New South Wales island to be changed after vote

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=entnewsntp
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    @TitoFan
    Strike another blow for the PC brigade

    What's the PC Brigade ? Who are they ? Where are they ?
    Last edited by Denilson3.0; 08-02-2021 at 10:21 AM.

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    Quote Originally Posted by Denilson3.0 View Post
    @TitoFan
    Strike another blow for the PC brigade

    What's the PC Brigade ? Who are they ? Where are they ?


    Good question. I'll answer it as best as I can, in full knowledge you live under the fantasy world where all whites in the world are racist.

    TO ME... the PC brigade is mostly made up of white people, who latch on to something as superficial and meaningless (in the big picture of things) as changing the Washington Redskins name... or changing the Aunt Jemima name... because in the end it makes them feel GOOD. It makes them feel like they've done their part to erase racism, and now we can go on with life as we know it. By concentrating on this superficial, low-hanging fruit, one can avoid tackling the real, underlying causes to this old and complex problem.

    If you were to conduct a survey of black people (at least the ones that I've known and associated with over the years), they would tell you that they would MUCH rather have people concentrate on the root causes, rather than the window dressing which in the end detracts from the real issues.

    So IMO, all this rah-rah stuff rallying around causes like all of sudden changing traditional names of teams and pancake syrups... and then patting ourselves on the back... is meaningless.

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    @TitoFan
    Good question. I'll answer it as best as I can, in full knowledge you live under the fantasy world where all whites in the world are racist.

    All white people are racist and if you are not then you are a miracle. You see racism as a character flaw. I don't. I see it at like calling the sky blue.

    Even you and this post- Black people all over South America are getting killed, living in the mud, having got a biscuit you're not posting about that ? Nope you've got to post about the Aunt Jemima and Cleveland Indians brand re-name.

    White people are not used to anyone telling them that they can’t do something, or shouldn’t, and you take great offense when you're own freedom, including the freedom to offend is stopped.

    @TitoFan
    TO ME... the PC brigade is mostly made up of white people, who latch on to something as superficial and meaningless (in the big picture of things) as changing the Washington Redskins name... or changing the Aunt Jemima name... because in the end it makes them feel GOOD. It makes them feel like they've done their part to erase racism, and now we can go on with life as we know it. By concentrating on this superficial, low-hanging fruit, one can avoid tackling the real, underlying causes to this old and complex problem.

    The so called PC Brigade didn't cancel Aunt Jemima. The Quaker Oats company (The company that owns Aunt Jemima brand) did

    And they only did that because they didn't want to pay royalties to that ladies family. You see Aunt Jemma was a real person (in case you didn't know) her family never got a dime off those billion dollar brands their faces and names were used for. Pay out the families related to Aunt Jemima as the real woman that the syrup was based on died broke and was buried in an unmarked grave until recent years.

    And even when the Quaker Oats company found out they still didn’t want to pay for a headstone . It was another non profit organization that went through the task of finding her descendants to approve of her getting a headstone.

    @TitoFan
    If you were to conduct a survey of black people (at least the ones that I've known and associated with over the years), they would tell you that they would MUCH rather have people concentrate on the root causes, rather than the window dressing which in the end detracts from the real issues.

    Well they should pick up a history book. Watch a documentary. Read an article. Go to a museum. Aunt Jemima is already in the Jim Crow Museum.



    There was a time in the USA where white people REFUSED to address Black people as Mr and Mrs.

    Instead they'd address us Aunt and Uncle..

    So YES. this is super racist

    They could have kept the syrup the way it was and put some money into community gardens in inner city areas, or programs for at risk children, or mentoring programs for youths.

    @TitoFan
    So IMO, all this rah-rah stuff rallying around causes like all of sudden changing traditional names of teams and pancake syrups... and then patting ourselves on the back... is meaningless.

    Not meaningless at all. That's white supremacy. Cancelling them ignore contexts. They have already been used to make billions for white folk.

    Giver her family reperations and also a statue.
    Last edited by Denilson3.0; 08-09-2021 at 02:33 AM.

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    Default Re: The Cleveland Indians are no more

    Quote Originally Posted by Denilson3.0 View Post
    All white people are racist and if you are not then you are a miracle. You see racism as a character flaw. I don't. I see it at like calling the sky blue.

    Well... we'll continue to disagree about the "all white people" thing.

    But even more important... yes... we also disagree about how we see racism. No way in hell it's not a character flaw. The thing is... you see it as an inevitable part of being white. I don't. Racism is a learned behavior. You see white people as being born racist. I don't. To me, it's impossible to be born racist, since racism is a sort of ignorance. And ignorance is obtained when someone is not educated the right way and in the right environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denilson3.0 View Post
    Even you and this post- Black people all over South America are getting killed, living in the mud, having got a biscuit you're not posting about that ? Nope you've got to post about the Aunt Jemima and Cleveland Indians brand re-name.

    And why do you think that is? I'll tell you why. Because the outward, blatant, in-your-face, violent racism that exists in many parts of the world, including South America, is unanimously viewed as abhorrent and negative. No one argues that those are good things. So it's not controversial. But changing brand names and team names IS controversial. It's controversial because to those of us who have the slightest bit of common sense... it smacks of cherry-picking, surface-skimming hypocrisy. "Let's do this and pat ourselves on the back. Our job here is done." As laughable as it is transparent. Maybe I've said this before. But if I were black... I wouldn't give a rat's ass about syrup names and concentrate on the things that have an actual impact on my life... like the systemic racism present in many sectors of U.S. law enforcement. And it's not just blacks who get profiled and treated with automatic suspicion by racist white cops. It's many Hispanics as well... at least in some areas of the country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Denilson3.0 View Post
    The so called PC Brigade didn't cancel Aunt Jemima. The Quaker Oats company (The company that owns Aunt Jemima brand) did

    And they only did that because they didn't want to pay royalties to that ladies family. You see Aunt Jemma was a real person (in case you didn't know) her family never got a dime off those billion dollar brands their faces and names were used for. Pay out the families related to Aunt Jemima as the real woman that the syrup was based on died broke and was buried in an unmarked grave until recent years.

    And even when the Quaker Oats company found out they still didn’t want to pay for a headstone . It was another non profit organization that went through the task of finding her descendants to approve of her getting a headstone.

    In fact I did know Aunt Jemima was a real person. But Quaker Oats didn't just up and cancel Aunt Jemima out of the goodness of their hearts or without any prompting whatsoever. Or else they would've done it long ago. They had pressure, stemming from the avalanche of public outcry caused by the George Floyd murder. Now, about Quaker should've done the right thing by that person's family... I agree. No qualms with that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Denilson3.0 View Post
    They could have kept the syrup the way it was and put some money into community gardens in inner city areas, or programs for at risk children, or mentoring programs for youths.

    See? That's exactly my point. I don't like "window dressing", and much prefer meaningful actions.


    I don't think we're too much in disagreement here, except for the fact that you continue to consider all white people are born racist, and I don't.

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